Trouble Gearing

[Faent]

I'm having trouble seeing how the new gear is actually better for DC-based wizards. So, of course, I've been following the MAX DC and Spell Pen discussions for the update. But I'm still confused. No doubt, part of the confusion is not yet being aware of all the new items (though I have a much better than average idea of what's going on).

I'm struggling to figure out how I want to alter my old gear setup, if at all. I mean, we have these fancy new +8 INT items. And these fancy new +3 Insight INT items. But of course, ToD rings give +2 Insight, and +9 INT in total. And +2 Insight isn't going to stack with +3 Insight.

So to actually boost my INT, I'd need to do what? Slot a ToD ring (say Rahkir's +9 INT), a +8 INT item AND an +3 INT Insight item? Yeah right. And +8 Trinkets compete with Litany of the Dead, so screw those.

Currently, I can cover my three primary focuses: +3 Conjuration Focus (Docent), +2 Necro Focus (Staff of the Petitioner) and +2 Enchantment Focus (Staff of the Petitioner). I don't want to give any of those up (although I'm open to wielding the new +3 Necro Staff and trying to slot +2 Enchantment Focus elsewhere, I'm not thrilled about giving up the extra SP the staff provides). And I'm especially not thrilled about having to give up my Epic Diabolist's Docent.

I'm struggling to see how any of the new gear really provides for a better gear setup than what was previously achievable. (I'm a Warforged Archmage, for reference. Dual Necro, Single Conjuration/Enchant.) Frankly, it strikes me as a bunch of trash whose only pupose is to look shiny and provide folks who didn't already have great gear with an entry level setup pretty quickly.

Have I somehow got this all wrong?

Edit: Oh yeah, and I get Augment Slots on all the old gear. So that makes the new gear even worse.

[Fefnir_2011]

Nah, you're not at all wrong. Most of the gear in general is good gear to someone new to 20 and epics, while being fancy vendor trash to the well geared. As a drow Wizard, I slotted this way:

Spidersilk Robes for +8 Int (you could use a Stone Heart, I traded my guildie a +8 int one)
Staff of the Necromancer for the +3 Necro/eStaff of Inner Sight for the +2 everything else (Chains of Flame is merely long now instead of being excruciating and long, although I got mine pre-change so i can't speak to exact diff)
Whisper Ring for +1,+2 insight Int

I am going to go for the +3 insight Int on my Trinket, since it will serve as my evening-out item like Litany would anyway if I had one. If you really like the -10% SP cost, do what I'm gonna do: keep the War wizard necklace and bracers around, and put the set bonus on your body slot so you can do a gear swap for it. All of that improves your DCs, and since you'd end up with +8 on body and +3 on trinket, you're really just staying the same on your Conjuration DCs while gaining 1 DC on everything else.

[Faent]

Spidersilk Robes for +8 Int (you could use a Stone Heart, I traded my guildie a +8 int one)

The Stone Heart looks like **** to me. And it costs me +3 Epic Conjuration Focus, which I get off my current Docent. This is the only source of +3 Epic Conjuration Focus.

Staff of the Necromancer for the +3 Necro/eStaff of Inner Sight for the +2 everything else

I'm already +2 or better (+3 on Conjuration) on almost everything that matters (Necro/Conj/Enchant) with the Epic Diabolist Docent and Staff of the Petitioner. The eStaff of Inner Sight would give me +1 to my PK DC. That's not a spell I rely on, although I do use it a little.

Whisper Ring for +1,+2 insight Int

DEX is a dumpstat on a Wizard. But no matter. Rahkir's Ring or Sanura's Band are just as good, and I assume you didn't want to suggest that the Whisper Ring beats either of those. I assume this is a wash.

I am going to go for the +3 insight Int on my Trinket, since it will serve as my evening-out item like Litany would anyway if I had one.

Not so great if you already have Litany. But if you don't, it might be nice.

If you really like the -10% SP cost, do what I'm gonna do: keep the War wizard necklace and bracers around

Are you suggesting I drop the Torc? Never. The War Wizard's Necklace and Bracers are total ****, in comparison to older items.

and put the set bonus on your body slot so you can do a gear swap for it. All of that improves your DCs, and since you'd end up with +8 on body and +3 on trinket, you're really just staying the same on your Conjuration DCs while gaining 1 DC on everything else.

Fair point. But I'm giving up the Torc. And I have to wear crappy bracers too. And there went Litany as well, which I use as a stat boost for more than just INT. So where is my Superior Potency going to come from in that setup? Where is my Arcane Lore going to come from? And where will I now slot Spell Penetration IX or better? (When using the eStaff of Inner Sight, I wouldn't have Spell Pen IX on the Staff of the Necromancer available.) Sorry, that looks bad to me. It's a +1 DC boost to some spells, at best, where that boost isn't needed, and it comes at a very high cost. Am I supposed to swap these two staffs constantly when I switch between casting Necro and Enchant/Conjuration spells? That's nuts, and would totally gimp any wizard.

[Fefnir_2011]

The Stone Heart looks like **** to me. And it costs me +3 Epic Conjuration Focus, which I get off my current Docent. This is the only source of +3 Epic Conjuration Focus.

The only reason I brought it up is because wearing it could bump you up one DC bracket. Other than that, it's only really useful for combining resistance +6 and Toughness. You shouldn't focus on the ECF that obsessively, anyway. If you lose 1 Conjuration DC from not wearing it, but gain 1 global DC from a new item, you're staying even on your Webs and gaining elsewhere.

I'm already +2 or better (+3 on Conjuration) on almost everything that matters (Necro/Conj/Enchant) with the Epic Diabolist Docent and Staff of the Petitioner. The eStaff of Inner Sight would give me +1 to my PK DC. That's not a spell I rely on, although I do use it a little.

The main reason I use the eSoIS is for the +2 to all DCs, since I don't have ECF on my robes anymore. I was saying you could use that to cover all your spell DCs bar Necromancy should you choose to change docents.

DEX is a dumpstat on a Wizard. But no matter. Rahkir's Ring or Sanura's Band are just as good, and I assume you didn't want to suggest that the Whisper Ring beats either of those. I assume this is a wash.

I don't have a Rahkir's, I was just saying that this is what I personally wear.

Not so great if you already have Litany. But if you don't, it might be nice.

Already having a Litany, swapping trinkets would be a wash in the Int department, but if you were to wear the Erudition trinket, you'd be able to gain Spell Penetration IX, +250 Spell Points, +15 Psionic Universal Spell Power as a set bonus with a raid weapon. That was the main reason I listed it.

Are you suggesting I drop the Torc? Never. The War Wizard's Necklace and Bracers are total ****, in comparison to older items.



Fair point. But I'm giving up the Torc. And I have to wear crappy bracers too.

It's a swap in. How often do you need -10% spell costs and Torc at the same time? If you're torcing, you just torc a little more instead of getting your discount. If you're worried about soloing and choosing between passive mana regen and active discounts, just run with Petitioner + Torc.

And there went Litany as well, which I use as a stat boost for more than just INT. So where is my Superior Potency going to come from in that setup? Where is my Arcane Lore going to come from? And where will I now slot Spell Penetration IX or better? (When using the eStaff of Inner Sight, I wouldn't have Spell Pen IX on the Staff of the Necromancer available.) Sorry, that looks bad to me. It's a +1 DC boost to some spells, at best, where that boost isn't needed, and it comes at a very high cost.

Spell Pen IX comes on the staff. I slot my spell boosting on Epic Rock Boots (Corrosion 90, Major Acid Lore), Epic Cloak of Flames (Combustion 90, Major Fire Lore), Epic Darkstorm Helm (Nullfication and Magnetism 90, Major Void and Lightning Lore), and eRing of Elemental Essence (Corrosion/Combustion/Magnetism/Glaciation 90). Really though, you can get by with eRoEE and Skiver without having redundancies.

Am I supposed to swap these two staffs constantly when I switch between casting Necro and Enchant/Conjuration spells? That's nuts, and would totally gimp any wizard.

It's not "nuts", and it doesn't gimp you to be smart about your gear. It's not that hard to swap staves when you lay down CC, I do it all the time. All it really requires is thinking "can I instakill these mofos about to pop up?" If the answer is no, you swap staves. If it's yes, keep Inner Sight equipped.

Being a wizard is being prepared for every situation. To paraphrase the PHB, if a wizard is a martial artist, applying pressure as needed, then the sorcerer is the barroom brawler with a chip on his shoulder. You can take my suggestions or leave 'em, just saying that this is what I wear and maybe you can move around a thing or two to gain some DCs.

[Faent]

Spell Pen IX comes on the staff.

So I'm using the Staff of the Necromancer while casting Enchantment spells? Ok, but then where is my Enchantment Focus coming from?

I slot my spell boosting on Epic Rock Boots (Corrosion 90, Major Acid Lore), Epic Cloak of Flames (Combustion 90, Major Fire Lore), Epic Darkstorm Helm (Nullfication and Magnetism 90, Major Void and Lightning Lore), and eRing of Elemental Essence (Corrosion/Combustion/Magnetism/Glaciation 90). Really though, you can get by with eRoEE and Skiver without having redundancies.

So I have no Arcane Lore or Greater Arcane Lore while wielding the Staff of the Necromancer? Not looking good. Also, you're describing a PM setup (which I still think is less than ideal for a PM). I indicated I was looking at gear for an Archmage.

It's not "nuts", and it doesn't gimp you to be smart about your gear. It's not that hard to swap staves when you lay down CC, I do it all the time. All it really requires is thinking "can I instakill these mofos about to pop up?" If the answer is no, you swap staves. If it's yes, keep Inner Sight equipped.

Not seeing it. I think you're thinking like a Pale Master. I'm not going to swap weapons between casting CC and Instakill spells. These are all in fast rotation all the time, as they should be on any Archmage.

Edit: And frankly, AM's are way ahead now.

[Rawel_San]

Not sure I would agree AM's are way ahead. Anyhow my proposed gear setup at the moment is +3 insight on
robe, +8 int on lootgen preferably ring (possibly something else). Rahkir's ring with +1 except +2 insight con.
+1 except con slotted someplace. This will gain me 3 int when going for necro dc's with the necro staff and
with epic inner sight you only lose 1 from conjuration (so a wash). It will mean more swapping for sure but
most of it ill be between quests as opposed to within as unless you're on EE the dc's and spell pen aren't a big
deal and if you are you want to not get hit and most probably won't be casting tons of damage spells either.

It's not perfect at the moment but I'm guessing lots of this is temporary until more interesting stuff comes out
in U15.

Edit: also yeah most of the new stuff is extremely situational at best but given the amount of swapping we are now forced into
just because of the fact no useful items have decent spell power I'm getting used to it.

[SoloPhalanx]

Interesting thread, although with your attitude Faent, I don't see you getting any useful advice.

Anyway, here's what I plan to do.

My setup before U14

Googs GS conc opp
---Helm Epic Helm of Frost
--- Random Necklace (haven't pulled a torc after 88 runs, meh)
Cloak E Envenomed Cloak
Trinket Litany
Epic Diabolist
Gloves GS HP
---Random Bracers
---Boots Epic Boots of Corrosion
---Belt Rhakirs
Ring Rhakirs
Cinder's Band +6 STR +3 CONS
Epic Staff of Inner Sight / Petitioner

The items with --- were/are subject to change.

Post U14, this is what I currently hope for:

Googs GS conc opp
+25% Fort Helm
Torc
Trinket Litany
Stone Heart with +8 Int (it will put me at an even, boosting my DC 1 up on everything except conjuration)
Gloves GS HP
Bracers of the Sun Soul (the +4 to saves and ability to ditch the ToD Ring if you slot exc con +1 somewhere is nice, although this is a spot that feels lacking)
Rock Boots
Rhakir's Belt (until I grab a Lion Headed)
Rhakirs Ring
Conj Focus Crafted Ring
Necromancer's Staff / Epic Staff of Inner Sight / Petitioner
Env Cloak

With this set up, I'm hitting 46 Spell Pen, 53 Necro DC and 49 Conj DC. More importantly, I'm hitting 55+ self buffed Reflex Save. With this in mind, I'm considering LR'ing out of 2 Wizard levels for 2 Monk, dropping my spell Pen to 44 (which is mean for EE Drow, but meh, might do another Wiz PL, drop my DCs by 1, which although noticeable for EEs, is still more then plenty for EN and EH. Guess I just need to grab my favor before doing so.

[Lycurgus]

The only new items which really catch my eye are the Staff of the Necromancer and Twilight as replacements for the Staff of the Petitioner, although the latter requires running the raid. Frankly, I'm not sure it's worth the pita. I'm using a 25% fort necklace in place of the torc in epic elite.

I could see replacing rakhir's with an 8 int ring, or epic bramblecasters/PDK gloves with 8 int gloves and the diabolist's docent with an insight 3 int Stoneheart, but it seems like a very modest gain considering the sacrifice. Between cleric past lives and twisting in conjuration focus from the draconic line, losing epic conjuration focus on the diabolist's docent doesn't present an insurmountable obstacle.

Hopefully the next update and the enhancement pass will bring something more to the table for gearing options.

[SoloPhalanx]

The only new items which really catch my eye are the Staff of the Necromancer and Twilight as replacements for the Staff of the Petitioner, although the latter requires running the raid. Frankly, I'm not sure it's worth the pita. I'm using a 25% fort necklace in place of the torc in epic elite.

I could see replacing rakhir's with an 8 int ring, or epic bramblecasters/PDK gloves with 8 int gloves and the diabolist's docent with an insight 3 int Stoneheart, but it seems like a very modest gain considering the sacrifice. Between cleric past lives and twisting in conjuration focus from the draconic line, losing epic conjuration focus on the diabolist's docent doesn't present an insurmountable obstacle.

Hopefully the next update and the enhancement pass will bring something more to the table for gearing options.

I believe those do not exist, which is ridiculous really. I posted a thread on it which went ignored:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383692

As for losing the conj focus, I'd say it's not worth it unless you end up on the same conj DC by evening out your int. Running with a 49 still feels lackluster to me.

[Fefnir_2011]

So I'm using the Staff of the Necromancer while casting Enchantment spells? Ok, but then where is my Enchantment Focus coming from?

I have spell pen on other items as well, just not Spell Pen IX. For example, if you wear the War Wizard's bracers, they have Spell Pen VIII, which covers all your enchantment spells bar dominate monster. I don't mind swapping for that though, because when I cast an enchantment spell it's almost always disco, so I can take a sec to swap to optimum gear. If you're adamant about having as few gear swaps as possible, just epic your torc and you'll have Greater Spell Pen VIII.

So I have no Arcane Lore or Greater Arcane Lore while wielding the Staff of the Necromancer? Not looking good. Also, you're describing a PM setup (which I still think is less than ideal for a PM). I indicated I was looking at gear for an Archmage.

Yeah, I was Archmage last life, but I TR'd to drow PM. Why on earth do you need to nuke while CC'ing? There really isn't many situations where there's respawns and a boss to deal with, so you just have two gear sets, one for nuking and one for CC/instakilling.

Not seeing it. I think you're thinking like a Pale Master. I'm not going to swap weapons between casting CC and Instakill spells. These are all in fast rotation all the time, as they should be on any Archmage.

It's just the way I think.

Can it be instakilled? If yes, kill it. If no, go to the next step.
Can it be CC'd? If yes, CC it. If no, go to the next step.
This is probably a red or purple-named. Nuke it from orbit.

That's why, in EN Chrono, I just stand in front of the bank tellers and Wail while the trash is coming down. Takes care of it a lot faster so I can swap to nuking Bloodplate. On higher difficulties, I just swap to eSoIS and disco, then swap to necro staff to get the few that still can be instakilled, then swap to nuking. Not that hard at all.

[Faent]

Yeah, I was Archmage last life, but I TR'd to drow PM. Why on earth do you need to nuke while CC'ing? There really isn't many situations where there's respawns and a boss to deal with, so you just have two gear sets, one for nuking and one for CC/instakilling.

I like to use Mass Hold in conjunction with Acid Rain and Ice Storm. Very effective. Get an Epic Ring of Elemental Essence.

On higher difficulties, I just swap to eSoIS and disco, then swap to necro staff to get the few that still can be instakilled, then swap to nuking. Not that hard at all.

In eChrono, I simultaneously nuke, CC and instakill in fast rotation. I put up a Discoball, Finger one arcane, Flesh to Stone the second, Mass Hold the mobs, Web, toss an Ice Storm on them, Finger an archer, Hold more mobs, DoT Bloodplate, refresh a Discoball and Web, DoT, PK something, Finger something else, DoT... It's much more effective to be able to do this, IMO.

[Fefnir_2011]

I like to use Mass Hold in conjunction with Acid Rain and Ice Storm. Very effective. Get an Epic Ring of Elemental Essence.

I've had one since about a month after I very first capped an arcane. I use the Mass Hold + AoE when soloing sometimes, but when I'm running in a guild group (which is really all the grouping I do), the melees take 'em down fast enough that it's just a waste of sp.

In eChrono, I simultaneously nuke, CC and instakill in fast rotation. I put up a Discoball, Finger one arcane, Flesh to Stone the second, Mass Hold the mobs, Web, toss an Ice Storm on them, Finger an archer, Hold more mobs, DoT Bloodplate, refresh a Discoball and Web, DoT, PK something, Finger something else, DoT... It's much more effective to be able to do this, IMO.

It's only more effective if you don't know exactly what spell you're going to cast at any given time. I prefer to be more prepared, so I have a "set list" of sorts of what I'll be doing at any given time instead of wildly casting spells. I don't have as much SP as an Archmage, though, so I do my best to not cast a single spell more than I absolutely have to.

[Faent]

It's only more effective if you don't know exactly what spell you're going to cast at any given time.

Let's talk about that Bloodplate fight a little more. I know what spell I'm going to cast at any given time. I'm going to cast Finger as soon as it comes off timer. I'm going to kill or stone the arcanes on sight. I'm going to cast my DoT's as soon as they're 1-2 (or 3-4, if busy) seconds away from dropping. I'm going to cast Mass Hold as soon as I see Armorers and Devils. I'm going to cast Discoball as soon as my current Discoball is about to drop. I'm going to cast Web whenever I get a chance (in the above rotation). And I'm going to cast Acid Rain and Ice Storm on Mass Held mobs, again, whenever I get a chance. (Provided the group has good DPS. If the group has bad DPS, I'll back off the AoE's and DoT's a bit.)

And I can do all of that. It's a lot of a fast casting, and it requires one to rotate very quickly between instakill, CC and nukes. Gearswaps between all these casts are not possible. And it's infinitely more effective than relegating yourself to a particular role at one time.

I prefer to be more prepared, so I have a "set list" of sorts of what I'll be doing at any given time instead of wildly casting spells. I don't have as much SP as an Archmage, though, so I do my best to not cast a single spell more than I absolutely have to.

While I suppose there's a sense of "prepared" in which this is more "prepared" gameplay, I think it's also more handicapped gameplay. But again, you're coming from the perspective of a Pale Master, and Pale Masters play very, very differently from Archmages. Your CC isn't as good, for one (you're missing a 1 SP 3 DC boost to Mass Hold, and you're missing 3 SP freely spammable webs). And you have fewer SP's, etc... I suspect that a lot of the difference in this gameplay is attributable to you being a Pale Master and me being an Archmage. And the fact that we're talking about the Bloodplate fight, in which an Archmage is just better than a Pale Master.