Why do SOME zergers intentionally hijack quests?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I was a bit bothered by this too.
The quest and the explorer zone are two entirely different things.
If the LFM says first time, etc. then I may join knowing fully well that it will be a flower sniffing run - no problem.
If you want to waste time ON THE WAY to the quest, however, then that is rude.
I joined the LFM for the quest, not the explorer area.

I was wondering about this but I don't know the new content so wanted to avoid specifics like this and focus on general principles (maybe a bad thing, maybe a good thing, certainly an interesting conversation).

I don't find writing "zerg" in the LFM to be productive due to the unfortunate negative connotations. I usually just write the quest that I'm doing and whether it's an elite BB run or farming and "starting" or "IP". Sometimes I add "byoh". I go through quests as quickly as possible ("zerg") and through an entire life - where I never put "zerg" in the LFM and almost constantly pug - I might have 1 or 2 people get upset at my play style. I've done a dozen or so lives like this on multiple servers ...

"Fast" or "zerging" is the norm, at least in my experience, if it isn't your norm, that's okay, post "no zerg" in your LFM and I'll know to avoid it so that I don't ruin your fun.

You're responsible for your own fun, be responsible, put "no zerg".

[DeafeningWhisper]

Here's a thought - if this guy offended you that greatly, you should have done the mature thing and recalled, and then dropped group; add offender to squelch, and only invite the ones you liked from the previous party to your new one - done.

I have an honest question, if I'm sutck in a group where my fun is getting killed by a member or members I usually just say: "Sorry, gtg" and leave.

But on my clerics I can never bring myself to do so because it impact the whole party rather hard.

My question: is it okay for me to up and leave a party on a healer if a player or 2 are been too much of a pain?

[Ancient]

The problem with people who do everything at breakneck speed is that they often overlook little details like words. This has been a problem ever since I started playing DDO a few months ago. Since it's my first time going through the content I often can't keep up with experienced players so I started posting LFMs for groups on normal or short quests that I knew well on higher difficulties. I can't tell you how many people upon reaching the quest entrance would realize that they were going to break their streak and drop group even though I specifically wrote that we were doing it on normal.

Generalize much? Don't kid yourself, there are plenty of slowpokes who get to the quest and have the same issue. This is because not reading and efficiency are different things.

Clearly this is caused by a lack of communication, but it's not my or the original poster's. I don't think your suggestions make us any less a victim of other players inability to follow simple instructions or understand statements about group intent, it just means we have to spend more time playing alone (this is supposed to be social gaming, isn't it?) or wasting time forming and reforming groups.

Oh so now in addition to smelling flowers, I'm not legitimate if I'm not in a group? If you re-read my suggestion, it was to begin soloing and post a LFM as in progress....

Personally I've learned to accept that the game will always be a mixed bag, since people are playing it for different reasons and with different levels of involvement. There are casual gamers, people who take it way too seriously, parents, teenagers, role-players and stat-mongers. Sometimes it's a lot of fun and sometimes it's a waste of time, but it's always just a game, and people are always people.

Which brings me back to my point you have missed several times... Don't assume your default way of doing the quest is others.

My second point is to not assume that zerging = jerk. I've joined many LFM's with the intention to help others instead of maximizing xp/minute. But "Doing optionals", or "First Time" are not at all the key words for me that send up a red flag for running in the slow lane. Consider this... what if a zerger wants to do a quest for the first time?

[deahamlet]

I have an honest question, if I'm sutck in a group where my fun is getting killed by a member or members I usually just say: "Sorry, gtg" and leave.

But on my clerics I can never bring myself to do so because it impact the whole party rather hard.

My question: is it okay for me to up and leave a party on a healer if a player or 2 are been too much of a pain?

Yes. Do you know why? Because if you persist to put up with it, you will eventually get your cup filled. You will be fed up. And then we'll have one less divine player joining PUG groups. Which would be sad, especially considering all the discontent lately from divines.
It's hard enough to pug on a divine at times, do not take it. For your own sanity and enjoyment, not to teach them some sort of lesson.

[Ancient]

I'm not trying to represent my opinion as a fact, I was just speculating about Turbine's intentions based on the effort they put into certain features.

They also spent time on the loading hint texts... it doesn't mean that people who ignore the loading screen messages aren't playing the game right. You enjoy the game one way, others enjoy it differently. When you stop assuming the worst of everyone who doesn't do it your way... you'll find many of your communication issues go away.

[Ancient]

My question: is it okay for me to up and leave a party on a healer if a player or 2 are been too much of a pain?

That is an amusing question... my answer for you would be, "Yes, of course". But when I play my healers... I always grit my teeth and stick it out through the rest of the quest.

[shajib]

I have an honest question, if I'm sutck in a group where my fun is getting killed by a member or members I usually just say: "Sorry, gtg" and leave.

But on my clerics I can never bring myself to do so because it impact the whole party rather hard.

My question: is it okay for me to up and leave a party on a healer if a player or 2 are been too much of a pain?

That has nothing to do with this topic, make a new thread if you want to discuss about it.

[BoBo2020]

That has nothing to do with this topic, make a new thread if you want to discuss about it.

From a meta standpoint, I like the idea of hijacking a thread about hijacking a quest.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have an honest question, if I'm sutck in a group where my fun is getting killed by a member or members I usually just say: "Sorry, gtg" and leave.

But on my clerics I can never bring myself to do so because it impact the whole party rather hard.

My question: is it okay for me to up and leave a party on a healer if a player or 2 are been too much of a pain?

Possibly some tactics you can use to encourage other players to adjust their play style to be more conducive with yours.

"Please don't run off" "Please don't run off or I won't heal you" "I'm not healing you anymore" "If you continue to do this I'll leave" "Sorry guys, this isn't fun for me, have to go" seems a reasonable progression. Possibly have to skip a step or two depending on how obnoxious the player is.

As in all situations communication is key. If you just say "gtg, sorry" then no one knows that you had an issue, maybe they would have slowed down to accommodate you but they certainly won't have learned anything from the experience.

[DeafeningWhisper]

That has nothing to do with this topic, make a new thread if you want to discuss about it.

Had a fail zerger keep dying in a Lost Thread and been very vocal about me not following him, I was with the party and healing them.

Not fully "on topic" sure, but on the same vein seeing how we are talking about what to do when we have people in our party doing a quest in a way we dislike/was not the way the lfm presented itself.

Sorry, for the hijack thou.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Possibly some tactics you can use to encourage other players to adjust their play style to be more conducive with yours.

"Please don't run off" "Please don't run off or I won't heal you" "I'm not healing you anymore" "If you continue to do this I'll leave" "Sorry guys, this isn't fun for me, have to go" seems a reasonable progression. Possibly have to skip a step or two depending on how obnoxious the player is.

As in all situations communication is key. If you just say "gtg, sorry" then no one knows that you had an issue, maybe they would have slowed down to accommodate you but they certainly won't have learned anything from the experience.

Hum, good point.

On other toons I just up and leave but voicing my problems would probably work seen how the healer is a pretty important part of the group.

[Galeria]

Why do SOME zergers intentionally hijack quests?

Because they feel entitled to. You are doing it wrong.

They can't remember what it's like to be in a quest for the first time and they really can't imagine that first timers even exist other than to grief them by slowing them down.


Relatively low server populations along with people unwilling to start their own groups means people will join any group doing something still on their list to be run, regardless of what the LFM asks for.

Newbs joining "know it, zerg" runs and zergers joining "First time, no zerg" runs both do it for the same reason- there's nothing else on the LFM board at the moment, and they don't want to start their own.

[Stormanne]

I was wondering about this but I don't know the new content so wanted to avoid specifics like this and focus on general principles (maybe a bad thing, maybe a good thing, certainly an interesting conversation).

I don't find writing "zerg" in the LFM to be productive due to the unfortunate negative connotations. I usually just write the quest that I'm doing and whether it's an elite BB run or farming and "starting" or "IP". Sometimes I add "byoh". I go through quests as quickly as possible ("zerg") and through an entire life - where I never put "zerg" in the LFM and almost constantly pug - I might have 1 or 2 people get upset at my play style. I've done a dozen or so lives like this on multiple servers ...

"Fast" or "zerging" is the norm, at least in my experience, if it isn't your norm, that's okay, post "no zerg" in your LFM and I'll know to avoid it so that I don't ruin your fun.

You're responsible for your own fun, be responsible, put "no zerg".

So, you're saying that you have no responsibility to ask any questions when joining a group? That you are free to do whatever you want in a group if the exact parameters of the group weren't specifically laid out in the LFM? Completely disregarding what the rest of the group is doing because a detailed plan wasn't laid out in the LFM?

Now, I know you've stated the you, yourself Wax, will adjust to the group. But others seem to believe that they are always in the right and that their play style is the only one in the group that matters.

What I find funny is the double standard here. The "zergers," for lack of a better term, generally post in their LFMs that the quest is going to be ran at break neck speeds. Usually indicated by such terms as "Fast, In Progress, Know the Way, BYOH, No Optionals, Zerg, etc, etc." So, if they are so used to using and seeing that type of LFM to indicate what the run is going to be, how can they say that ALL runs are going to be as such if not specified as so in the LFM? Generally slower paced groups will have an LFM with indicators such as "all optionals, conquest, ransack, need guide, relaxed pace, new to quest." But, some of the "zergers" here seem to think that not only do the non-zerg LFMs have to not have any of the zerg indicators, but must also specifically spell out that it is a non-zerg run.

Wouldn't good manners and common sense dictate that if there is no indication of how the run is going to be done, to assume that it would be the party leaders "normal" and to ask just what that entails? As you have said, your normal speed and others aren't always the same. Yes, this argument applies to the flower sniffers as well. Don't join a zerg LFM and start lollygagging around looking for that last barrel to get those +1 Frost Touch Throwing darts. And if you join a blank LFM and the rest of the party darts off like cockroaches when the lights come on, you might want to speak up and ask if everyone is zerging and drop out if they are.

[Loromir]

Zerging = normal way of doing a quest (to me).

Zerging is not THE normal way of doing a quest. Zerging is YOUR normal way of doing a quest. 5% of the player population is of your caliber and is able to zerg most quests. 95% of the player population is not of your caliber and needs to go abit slower (Either for Enjoyment or just to be able to survive).

If you volunteer to be a guide for an LFM that states "Need Guide" you should expect to go slow and hold hands, because there is a 95% chance that you will be in a group that can't (Or doesn't want to) zerg.

[shajib]

Zerging is not THE normal way of doing a quest. Zerging is YOUR normal way of doing a quest. 5% of the player population is of your caliber and is able to zerg most quests. 95% of the player population is not of your caliber and needs to go abit slower (Either for Enjoyment or just to be able to survive).

If you volunteer to be a guide for an LFM that states "Need Guide" you should expect to go slow and hold hands, because there is a 95% chance that you will be in a group that can't (Or doesn't want to) zerg.

Where are you getting all these numbers from?

[Xynot2]

I know of or knew of one guy who was a little off and loved to kill everyone, finish the quest and dropp the stones out of reach of the shrine.

I know of another guy who was 14 and thought he knew better so he wouldn' listen to directions

I know another guy who was a little *touched* and just never quite got it.

First guy got life banned
Second guy got a short ban and learned his lesson
last guy said the game was stupid and quit.

Make lists of those people. Eventually they go away and you no longer have to avoid them.

[Loromir]

Where are you getting all these numbers from?

Dude...they are just numbers...maybe it's 90/10...maybe its 80/20 maybe its 70/30, but you can't deny that the majority of the player population is not as adept as the TR Train Zergers out there.

[glouky]

Zerging is not THE normal way of doing a quest. Zerging is YOUR normal way of doing a quest. 5% of the player population is of your caliber and is able to zerg most quests. 95% of the player population is not of your caliber and needs to go abit slower (Either for Enjoyment or just to be able to survive).

If you volunteer to be a guide for an LFM that states "Need Guide" you should expect to go slow and hold hands, because there is a 95% chance that you will be in a group that can't (Or doesn't want to) zerg.

I agree that a crazy Zerging for speed run acheivement is not for everyone, but on the other hand, slow runs are not always easier.

Many abilities (buff, enhencements, etc.) have limited amount of time and it is a problem when you can not reach the next shrine without re-buff.
*AoE and CC are not mana efficient with only one mob at a time
*I cannot buff everyone more than once
*clickies don't have infinite charges

Once again, there is a speed trade-off that can be found (at high level, those limitations are less important)

[shajib]

Dude...they are just numbers...maybe it's 90/10...maybe its 80/20 maybe its 70/30, but you can't deny that the majority of the player population is not as adept as the TR Train Zergers out there.

Mabye that is the case in your server, but whenever i log in to Argonessen server, most of the lfms i see are byoh zerg based lfms.

[Loromir]

I agree that a crazy Zerging for speed run acheivement is not for everyone, but on the other hand, slow runs are not always easier.

Many abilities (buff, enhencements, etc.) have limited amount of time and it is a problem when you can not reach the next shrine without re-buff.
*AoE and CC are not mana efficient with only one mob at a time
*I cannot buff everyone more than once
*clickies don't have infinite charges

Once again, there is a speed trade-off that can be found (at high level, those limitations are less important)

I don't diasagree, but you must keep in mind that to MOST of the player population, speed is not an option. I count myself in that "MOST" category.