Multiple damage types?

[losian2]

I'm not sure what the point of these are, for example the winter wolf doing piercing and bludgeon.

I'm fighting skeletons and their bludgeon damage reduction is still taking effect, so.. What's the point of doing piercing/bludgeon damage, if it still gets reduced for being piercing and doesn't bypass bludgeon? Or is it bugged?

[QuantumFX]

Wolf forms bypasses Piercing and Slashing DR.
Bear forms bypasses Bludgeon and Slashing DR.

[Zirun]

Wolf is Slashing / Piercing and Bear is Bludgeoning / Slashing according to DDOWiki.

[losian2]

I believe I specified in my original post, but if not I meant WINTER wolf which, per the tooltip, is bludgeon/pierce, so it should hit skeletons just fine, but does not.

Edit: From ingame tooltip on my level 20 druid "Your natural attacks do 1d10 damage, do both piercing and bludgeoning damage, and critically hit for triple damage on a roll of 18-20." So, it says bludgeoning in the tooltip for winter wolf yet skeletons are still reducing damage from me in winter wolf form via their bludgeoning DR.

Either the winter wolf tooltip is and has been wrong since release, the winter wolf attack types are wrong, or the dual damage types don't bypass properly. I have not tested extensively with bear, but I recall doing Delara's and even the bear's blunt/slash was being reduced, so it may be the dual types not working.

[LupusVai]

I believe I specified in my original post, but if not I meant WINTER wolf which, per the tooltip, is bludgeon/pierce, so it should hit skeletons just fine, but does not.

Edit: From ingame tooltip on my level 20 druid "Your natural attacks do 1d10 damage, do both piercing and bludgeoning damage, and critically hit for triple damage on a roll of 18-20." So, it says bludgeoning in the tooltip for winter wolf yet skeletons are still reducing damage from me in winter wolf form via their bludgeoning DR.

Either the winter wolf tooltip is and has been wrong since release, the winter wolf attack types are wrong, or the dual damage types don't bypass properly. I have not tested extensively with bear, but I recall doing Delara's and even the bear's blunt/slash was being reduced, so it may be the dual types not working.

Open your inventory. Click on the drop down menu. (the one which shows your weapon stats for what you have equipped) Now remove weapons/shields from your hands. It will now tell you what your base damage types are. For winter wolf it will show slash and pierce for dire bear it will show slash and blunt. The tool tips are just wrong and have been from beta.

Skeletons in deleras also have one other from of DR which is good. To bypass their DR you need good or holy weapon equipped (or the align fang spell should work if you choose good) as well as blunt (actually you my not even need blunt on those ones it could just be good/holy). If you weren't using a good/holy weapon you would be seeing reduced damage despite whatever blunt/pierce/slash. Also I used bear form in deleras on the archer mobs (the archers don't have good DR) and the blunt bypass worked just fine.

[Expalphalog]

If that's the case, then it is the tooltip that is wrong. They do slashing/piercing and only crit on 19-20.

[losian2]

If that's the case, then it is the tooltip that is wrong. They do slashing/piercing and only crit on 19-20.

Based on what? You're just reciting the normal wolf, not the WINTER wolf. There are two types of wolf forms, they are different, winter wolf is altogether better - higher damage and better crit range, per the tooltip. Unless a dev says otherwise, winter wolf per the game itself should be 1d10, piercing/bludgeon, 18-20x3 crit.

[Expalphalog]

Based on what? You're just reciting the normal wolf, not the WINTER wolf. There are two types of wolf forms, they are different, winter wolf is altogether better - higher damage and better crit range, per the tooltip. Unless a dev says otherwise, winter wolf per the game itself should be 1d10, piercing/bludgeon, 18-20x3 crit.

Based on actually playing the game and testing these things. It's not that hard to figure out - attack until you roll an 18 and check your combat log. Does it say Critical Hit? No. Do you roll a second time to confirm a Critical Hit? No. Then you're not critting on an 18. Go attack a zombie. Did you bypass his Slashing DR? It did? Cool, now go find a Wheep. Did you bypass his Piercing DR? Yep, that's what I thought.

[losian2]

Based on actually playing the game and testing these things. It's not that hard to figure out - attack until you roll an 18 and check your combat log. Does it say Critical Hit? No. Do you roll a second time to confirm a Critical Hit? No. Then you're not critting on an 18. Go attack a zombie. Did you bypass his Slashing DR? It did? Cool, now go find a Wheep. Did you bypass his Piercing DR? Yep, that's what I thought.

This is why I hate forums. What you're saying is what it is, not necessarily what it is supposed to be, based on the game's information. If someone simply linked a dev post or similar with the information of what it SHOULD be, then that'd be that. That's all this entire thread needed, rather than five people throwing their "i know stuff I was in beta" coolness around. As far as I can see tooltip is what should be, so that it isn't that means it is bugged. If the devs stated otherwise, then there you go. Obviously I can tell it isn't doing bludgeon because it isn't bypassing that.

[SisAmethyst]

...If someone simply linked a dev post or similar with the information of what it SHOULD be, then that'd be that...

Yes, would be nice if a Dev clearly state what it should be, however the past told us that the in-game descriptions are rarely accurate and one usually has to go by what is actually applied. So no, I guess the older forum posters aren't blessed by an oracle to know the right answer but the chance that the tooltip is wrong is just too likely.

If you are in doubt, do a bug report with your detailed investigation and combat log, saying what you expect and what actually is, which is the best way to be sure it will be looked into it and in case the tooltip is right have it eventually be fixed.

[QuantumFX]

Based on what?

The fact that the tooltip said Piercing and Slashing before the last patch. And the fact that I know where to find zombies in this game:

(Combat): You hit Zombie Pirate for 45 points of slash damage.

[Xyfiel]

The buff Icon, the inventory detail screen when unarmed, and actual testing shows one way.

The feat selection on level up, the feat in char feat panel, and the hotbar icon all show another way. Being all three of these are really the same thing(the feat), many of us assume that the first way is correct.

Devs know about, and decided to avoid telling us which way it is suppose to be. Bug report whichever you think is a bug if it bothers you. I highly doubt it is 18-20 x3, aka the best crit profile in game. That is mini ESOS at level 8, and depending on weapon equipped, better. It would make Winter wolf the best form by a lot.

[Ertay]

Tooltips are not everything. Winter wolf for example has always been 19-20 crit range, despite what the tooltip said. This also is not in any way SoS material, because we do not get the increased str bonus from being twohanded like the SoS does (which is a huge perk for this weapon especially) and not as much from power attack as well. Druids also never get the incresed damage dice all other epic weapons get.

Being 18-20x3 would have been the saving grace for druids endgame, not having it is just another nail in the coffin really.

[Expalphalog]

When you ask a question and three people give you exact same answer, you don't say "Nuh uh! You don't know! You're lying!" Instead you say, "Oh, okay. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question." But, you chose the first route and people reacted the way that they do when you get snippy with them for doing you a favor.

If you act like a child, you have no right to complain about being treated like one.

[fatherpirate]

If memory serves

Nothing is vulnerable to piercing damage over the other 2 types.
so why be bother with it if it also does slash or blunt? slash and blunt are the only ones
that might effect damage.

some might say..but mobs are resistant to pierce. who cares? it is the other type
that will play.

they need to simplify it to: one does slash and one does blunt.

[Dolphious]

If memory serves

Nothing is vulnerable to piercing damage over the other 2 types.
so why be bother with it if it also does slash or blunt? slash and blunt are the only ones
that might effect damage.

some might say..but mobs are resistant to pierce. who cares? it is the other type
that will play.

they need to simplify it to: one does slash and one does blunt.

Well rakshasas have DR good + piercing. Not a real common enemy, but they're out there.

[Havok.cry]

Well rakshasas have DR good + piercing. Not a real common enemy, but they're out there.

IIRC crimson foot spiders and wheeps also have DR overcome by peircing.

[Metathron]

Due to these kinds of discrepancies there are going to be a lot of annoyed druid players. 18-20 is what was reported in-game, and all over the forums pre-release. If 19-20 is WAI then that is a huge nerf (~20%) in projected DPS potential of the druid. I had assumed 18-20 was correct as the druid melee otherwise has no or little (depending how you value the enhancements) edge over a FvS with comparable feat investments (say khopesh and GTWF), while the FvS also sports twice the mana, has better enhancements, and no form casting penalties.

It seemed reasonable the Druid would get stronger melee when built for such. It's a bit unclear what niche the druid is supposed to fill compared to the other divine classes. They do get a few more nukes early on, but that is transient. They are almost less versatile than other divines due the form penalties and sp cost and extremely tight enhancement and feat budgets (the latter which is shared with other divines also though).

In either case, this mess could have been avoided and Turbine had been a bit better at communication and quality assurance. The current approach to design comes off looking like they are throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks, which I hope isn't what is actually going on behind the scenes.

[fatherpirate]

Well, guess I am wrong....it happens often

some stuff is vulnerable to pierce .. go fig.
I take back comment saying duel types are not needed...apparently they are

game on