[U13 MARK] Hey! I'm Wolnie

[po0o0oo0]

INTRO:
AFK at U14, so this build & Gear only for u13. Post for notes and talk.

RACE:
Half Elf

CLASS:
20 Rogue

STATS:
(32 point build)
Str 18
Con 18
Others 8

SKILLS:
Intimidate (YES)
UMD
Jump
Spot
Search
Disable Device
Open Lock
Balance

FEATS:
1 - Power Attack
2 - Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
3 - Toughness
4 - Toughness
5 - Toughness
6 - Toughness
7 - Toughness

DILETTANTE FEATS:
Fighter

ROGUE FEATS:
1 - Opportunist
2 - Slippery Mind
3 - Improved Evasion
4 - Skill Mastery

ENHANCEMENTS:
Assassin III
Human Versatility
Rogue Action Boost
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
and others



GEAR:
(two different part)

DPS GEAR:

Weapons: EPSOS (Slot:Good) / Epic Midnight Greetings / GS Holy*3 Maul / Metalline Pure Good Falchion (I have no Epic Antique Greataxe)
Armor: Epic Red Dragonhide Armor (Slot:Heavy Fort) / Epic Kundarak Delving Suit (Slot:Heavy Fort)(for Chronoscope Boss)
Trinket: Litany of the Dead / Epic Gem of Many Facets
Necklace: Verik's Necklace (Kensai) / Epic Necklace of Venom (Vulkoor's Cunning)
Ring 1: Verik's Ring (Ex Con +2)(Kensai)
Belt: Coletheni's Belt (Ravager)
Ring 2: Ring of The Ravager (Ex Str +2)(Ravager)
Ring 2 *: Sanura's Band (Ex Int +2)(Pale Master)
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Clock (Slot:Toughness)
Gloves: Epic Charged Gauntlets (Slot:30HP)
Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion (Slot: Dex6+Good Luck)
Helm: Crystal Cove (Seeker +6)
Bracers: GS Radiance II (45 hp / Blindness)
Goggles: Tharnes Goggles / Epic Kundarak Delving Goggles / Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing / Tinker's Goggles
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity

PS, if DPS not good enough, use Epic Gem of Many Facets & Epic Necklace of Venom, if even worse, use Tinker's Goggles.

Next, gear for second-rate tanker. Notice, Intimidate is Rogue's class skill.

TANK GEAR:

Weapons: EPSOS (Slot:Good) / GS MII Scimitar
Shield: Madstone Shield
Armor: Dragontouched Leather Armor (Heavy Fort / 10% Treat / 20% Treat)
Trinket: Epic Brawn's Spirits (Slot:Ex Str +1)
Necklace: Stalwart Necklace (Stalwart Defender)
Ring 1: Cinder's Band (20% AMP)(Stalwart Defender)
Ring 2: Circle of Hatred (30% Treat)
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Clock (Slot:Toughness)
Gloves: Epic Charged Gauntlets (Slot:30HP)
Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion (Slot: Dex6+Good Luck) / Madstone boots
Helm: Epic Helm of Frost
Bracers: Epic Scorched Bracers
Belt: GS MII
Goggles: GS Ele *3 (6 Cha Skills)
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity

INTIMIDATE:
Skills: 23
Cha Mode: 4
GS: 6
Gear: 20
Favor: 2
GH: 4
Enhancements: 1
Luck: 2
Rogue Feat: 1
no buff Base Intimidate: 63
* can take action boost, ship buff, bard song and others


THX.

[karl_k0ch]

Gladly, with u14, there is a free LR, which allows to spend the toughness feats for something else, which contributes to the dps, for example Precision, or helps your surviability, such as Shield Mastery.

With Epic levels and Epic Destinies, I do not see much reason for multiple toughness feats - with your current Con value you will get 21 HP per epic level, which is a similar value as taking 4 extra toughness feats. Unyielding Sentinel also offers some more value for your tanking mode.

I am deliberately not discussing the issue of a non-TWF assassin here.

[delsoboss]

Lol, am I the only one that reading the stats thought "duh, Rogann is using freebie accounts to promote his/her beliefs?"

Anyway, OP, are you sure you want to be a rogue intimi-tank? Have you tried kensai III THF fighter? Lots of space for all your toughnesses there, and you wouldn't embarass the (rogue) category so much.

PS: Apologies in advance if this post seems too abrasive, everyone can play whatever they want but the moment you post a build in the forums we. the angry forum mob. will jump on it and tear it apart.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Wow, where to start ...

Well, for starters you've pushed all your feats, stat and build choices in to maximising your tanking ability. However, at the end of the day you're still a rogue and even a level 20 stalwart in loot gen is going to be a better tank and when that happens you get pushed into a DPS role at which you are completely mediocre. I mean, with an eSoS I guess the DPS can't be that bad but you're missing out on almost 115 sneak attack damage/second or missing 188 sneak attack/second while haste/versatility: damage combo is active. eSoS doesn't even come close to making up for that.

[brzytki]

Wow, there is some heavy gimpage going on. I mean putting all stat points into STR and CON smells like a barb. Then come all those Toughness feats and using THF... But that wasn't enough, we also have a rogue made as a tank primarily, without a way to deal SA.

With ESOS your DPS suffers around 120-140 loss compared to similarly geared TWF rogue, while using other weapons drops it even further. Not to mention that you built it to be a tank, yet you don't have any way to get SA (at least 17d6+12 every swing) while you are tanking, so why even bother with 20 levels of rogue? You skipped bluff, don't have Deception items... nothing. This makes this character worse at tanking (which you specifically built for) than any other fighter/barb/paly/ranger/earth monk/sorc/PM wizzy/fvs - almost anything.

I'd be brutal but i'd consider this character to be a waste of a slot in my party.

[karl_k0ch]

To avoid redundancy in arguments for/against a THF rogue, I recommend to read all 11 pages of this thread to anyone who wishes to participate in that discussion: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=354971

:P

This makes this character worse at tanking (which you specifically built for) than any other fighter/barb/paly/ranger/earth monk/sorc/PM wizzy/fvs - almost anything.

This is not entirely true. As a rogue, he can rely to a numer of defensive measures which not every other class has access to: Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion. But I agree, the synergy between being a pure rogue and being a tank is almost negligible.

With the destinies, I see that switching between a tanking role (Unyielding Sentinel) and a dps role (Shadowdancer/Legendary Dreadnaught) outside of a quest is made a lot easier. If I were to build an assassin which has a focus on being a possible off-tank, I'd probably do one of the following things:

• 18rog/2 fgt
• 13rog/6 pal/1 fgt

The former is be more rogue-y, and have a very good assasinate DC, the latter has better threat generation and still a decent assassinate DC.

In any case, I'd work hard on the intimidate score. Only having 63ish might not be enough, cf. here.

Also: EMG with a score of 15 Int? Is there some kind of secret behind that?

[po0o0oo0]

To avoid redundancy in arguments for/against a THF rogue, I recommend to read all 11 pages of this thread to anyone who wishes to participate in that discussion: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=354971

:P



This is not entirely true. As a rogue, he can rely to a numer of defensive measures which not every other class has access to: Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion. But I agree, the synergy between being a pure rogue and being a tank is almost negligible.

With the destinies, I see that switching between a tanking role (Unyielding Sentinel) and a dps role (Shadowdancer/Legendary Dreadnaught) outside of a quest is made a lot easier. If I were to build an assassin which has a focus on being a possible off-tank, I'd probably do one of the following things:

• 18rog/2 fgt
• 13rog/6 pal/1 fgt

The former is be more rogue-y, and have a very good assasinate DC, the latter has better threat generation and still a decent assassinate DC.

In any case, I'd work hard on the intimidate score. Only having 63ish might not be enough, cf. here.

Also: EMG with a score of 15 Int? Is there some kind of secret behind that?

Thanks for ur reply.

15 Int = 8(base) + 4(tome) + 2(20 Rogue Enhancements) + 1(Litany of the Dead)

So , when i use Sanura's Band (Ex Int +2) and Midnight, SA dc will be 40, I'll be satisfied because its 8 int base build.

I haven't in-game since U14 updated , so feats are only for u13. I dont know well about Epic level and Epic feat, may be i will not play any more.

Dont focus on tank. With a 600hp pure rogue , many ppl will think about how to be a temp tank when no a real tank in your group. I have said its second-rate and its my try, its funny.

This build is base on DPS, I know ppl maybe dont like THF rogue well , but when hit a monster with several hundred critical and about 100 sneak attack, its happy.

Thank u again.

[delsoboss]

This build is base on DPS, I know ppl maybe dont like THF rogue well , but when hit a monster with several hundred critical and about 100 sneak attack, its happy.

Alright, i take everything back (really sorry about the Rogann-thing).

You seem to know you're not a first top notch tank and probably you know that you're not top notch dps too, but you're having fun with the build and that's the most important thing.

Don't really know why you posted the build here but only thing i suggest is to read on the wiki about epic levels and epic destinies and see what fun can you get out of it.

Good luck in your journeys and may the game always be fun for you.

[grayham]

5 toughness Feats is an awful lot. That's 4 too many.

[SoloPhalanx]

I have some advice.

Reroll

[Rogann]

Str/con rogues for life!

[MalarKan]

are you guys completely ignoring the fact that this is pretty much an 'Ethan Hunt' build, or 'Krimsonrane' build? :P

he doesnt have bluff? well, not really THAT necesary anyways, if he managed to get a red scale armor then im pretty sure the tends to group with people which he wont ever need threat reduction. And if he ever happens to tank, then a Golden Guile is incredible easy to find. I do agree that 4 toughness is a lot, but this game is a matter of choices, on my rogue i took PA, Cleave, TWF, I-TWF, G-TWF, Toughness, Toughness, IC: pierce (i have way too many cute epic daggers and shortswords to skip this feat :P), and on epic levels i took Epic toughness and Improved sneak attack... with a 15-16-18-10 starting stats... 2 lvl ups in dex, and rest in Str... but hey, it is a pure rogue, two weapon fighting Acrobat! with still serious dps while holding a staff when i feel like it... And still manage to have flawless trap skills, sneaking abilities and can bluff or intimidate according to what each situation requires...

Im pretty sure he knows he is not and wont be the best dps rogue, but as i mentioned before, its his choice go oe way or another... he might not be the best, but its stil better than and one of best dps classes ...

So, if you are ever feeling like improving your DPS, my only suggestion would be to drop 4 of your toughnesses, keep one and grab whatever that would improve your DPS, like Cleave and THF feats and on epic lvls Epic toughness and ImpSA (By the looks of it, im pretty sure you will enjoy Ldreadnought as i do, so cleave is a must... specially with that cute baby you weild). Or drop 2 toughness (total 48 HP at lvl 24) and take E-Toughness which would free you 2 feat slots at heroic levels.

Anyways, have fun, and never come to the forums without your acid/fire burst - greater giant bane weaps!

cheers!

[karl_k0ch]

are you guys completely ignoring the fact that this is pretty much an 'Ethan Hunt' build, or 'Krimsonrane' build? :P

No, not at all.

[Fefnir_2011]

he doesnt have bluff? well, not really THAT necesary anyways, if he managed to get a red scale armor then im pretty sure the tends to group with people which he wont ever need threat reduction. And if he ever happens to tank, then a Golden Guile is incredible easy to find.

Red Scale doesn't necessarily mean anything more than he knows how to scroll farm or otherwise make enough money to get his scales and knows 11 people who will let him pike and will pass him a shard. Harsh but true, it's no measure of the worth of a toon or the people that toon runs with.

I do agree that 4 toughness is a lot, but this game is a matter of choices, on my rogue i took PA, Cleave, TWF, I-TWF, G-TWF, Toughness, Toughness, IC: pierce (i have way too many cute epic daggers and shortswords to skip this feat :P), and on epic levels i took Epic toughness and Improved sneak attack... with a 15-16-18-10 starting stats... 2 lvl ups in dex, and rest in Str... but hey, it is a pure rogue, two weapon fighting Acrobat! with still serious dps while holding a staff when i feel like it... And still manage to have flawless trap skills, sneaking abilities and can bluff or intimidate according to what each situation requires...

Im pretty sure he knows he is not and wont be the best dps rogue, but as i mentioned before, its his choice go oe way or another... he might not be the best, but its stil better than and one of best dps classes ...

I won't try to argue him or anyone out of this build. Personally though, I feel like something is deeply wrong taking more than 1 toughness even on a tanking build. Cleave/Great Cleave, THF line, Hamstring, Improved Sunder, Stunning Blow, Precision, Dodge, Power Critical, Shield Master/iSM, Weapon Focus... Heck, take some ranged feats. I feel any of those is worth more than 27 more hp.

[Arkat]

Shouldn't the OP have posted this in the Achievements forum?

[karl_k0ch]

Shouldn't the OP have posted this in the Achievements forum?

For what in particular?

[Arkat]

For what in particular?

Germans really ARE literalists!