Remove Caught in the Web from DDO Until It is Fixed

[sephiroth1084]

Some comments:

1. The hand doesn't ever have to get near Anna. You can intimidate the Hand and stay well away from the party to keep everyone save, Anna included. In the first run we did, I intimidated it and shield-blocked while staying near the group for heals and so I could see the raid, but that strategy wasn't very good as it hits fairly hard and even with decent self-healing on my paladin, I ran into problems a couple of times. On our second run, our fighter tank intimidated the hand and kited it around somewhere halfway across the map behind the party. It's very slow moving, so he wasn't ever in danger. Twice, though, the hand zipped up to the party. At that point I grabbed its aggro and kited it around until the fighter caught up and took over again.
2. If the above is anything like what the devs intended, they should just go delete the whole raid. Kiting the dogs in Lord of Blades is annoying and boring; this is much, much worse on both axis.
3. Hitting Lolth's torso at the edge of a floating island looks really ******, feels weird, and is not fun--I can hardly tell whether I'm landing attacks on her, I don't see the damage I'm dealing, I can't see anything but her belly button or the tops of her breasts (if I have the camera pointing straight down at me), and I can't tell what the hell is going on anywhere else. Plus, if you take one wrong step while jockying for a spot where you can actually reach her, you plunge off the edge, and get ported far back in the raid. Something needs to change here to make this more enjoyable, both aesthetically and mechanically. Honestly, fighting things much bigger than the players has always been a failing, to me, of D&D and many other games, because unless you have anime-style acrobatics, it just looks and feels utterly ridiculous.

[Monkey_Archer]

[*]Hitting Lolth's torso at the edge of a floating island looks really ******, feels weird, and is not fun--I can hardly tell whether I'm landing attacks on her, I don't see the damage I'm dealing, I can't see anything but her belly button or the tops of her breasts (if I have the camera pointing straight down at me), and I can't tell what the hell is going on anywhere else. Plus, if you take one wrong step while jockying for a spot where you can actually reach her, you plunge off the edge, and get ported far back in the raid. Something needs to change here to make this more enjoyable, both aesthetically and mechanically. Honestly, fighting things much bigger than the players has always been a failing, to me, of D&D and many other games, because unless you have anime-style acrobatics, it just looks and feels utterly ridiculous.[/LIST]

I don't know what was more silly: fighting a giant inanimate wall-statue of lolth's stomach, or that the "goddess" did less damage then her minions....

IMO, Lolth's current wall-ornament form should be completely removed from the raid and replaced with a smaller avatar, or perhaps some giant named demon or anything that would actually move around, could be tanked, and presents a more interesting battle.
The giant invincible laser-Lolth could perhaps show up at the end after defeating the portal keepers and 1-shot stragglers who don't make it through the exit in time.... now that would be entertaining

[FrostBeard]

The natives have spoken and they are "****ed"!!

good thing guildwars2 beta is next weekend...

[Crazeee]

I bet yesterday was a day where more SP pots got consumed on all servers than ever before. And why? Just to see a raid bug out! Yeah, that's really awesome. So not only take that broken piece of ... offline, but also give a stack of SP pots to everyone.

[Dandonk]

I was in a pug on G-land. First we tried hard, and what with one thing and another (and noone knowing the raid - don't think anyone had been on lamaland to try it), we failed. Oh, well, that was to be expected.

Then we went back in on norm, and more or less owned the place. Mechanics are much much easier, as well as mobs. We killed our way across the map, did the optionals, and ended up at a barrier that wouldn't go down, no matter how many times we killed the portal keepers. We /prayed, /begged, prepped, whatever we could think of. Killed them away from portal, and at portal.
With in-game help bugged (at least for epics), we had to give up after a few hours.

Now, I don't mind wiping on Epic Hard. It was a pug, first run. We were decent group, no doubt, but not multi-uber-TR-all-decked-out-with-epics.

But a stupid mechanics bug (from what I've read, you have to do something very specific, first time, or you're hosed) that prevents many completions? Wasn't it also reported on lamaland?

I mean, yes, we all want the raid. But I'm so not running it again until the bug gets fixed so I won't run through the entire raid, only to be stopped at the very end because someone moved a little too fast or whatever.

[mudfud]

Heck unlike everyone here my only complaint is 1 piece of raid loot in 5 chests is kinda sad. We should have atleast gotten 3 with those odds. Love the no timer!

[Palantyr]

This raid never should have been pushed to live. It's a buggy mess.

One elite run where we killed lloth and all portal keepers that spawned at the end fight, only to never have the barrier drop and everything stop spawning after lloth was killed. This run actually had some GM intervention, doing something to Ana (respawning perhaps) made the barrier go down so we could get into the cavern with chests but never having completed the portal keeper objective we were out of luck. Ddoor'ing back proved pointless because for whatever reason nothing was respawning anymore. I don't really even understand what the bug was in this run. We would kill the waves only to not have the portal ever open, we killed lloth and no portal open, we backtracked looking for not to be found portal keepers, we did optionals.

A second run on hard (which I have to mention is ridiculously easy compared to elite but I suppose that's seperate issue) ended when Ana was left floating somewhere in the demonweb. I actually had a feeling this might happen, even though warnings were told that someone should kite the hand and keep it away from the group the raid leader was insistaent that the hand posed no threat and as such was hanging out with the raid party most of the quest. Whatever, some people have to learn by example and hopefully he understands the threat of the hand now, it's a raid over mechanism in this quest's current build. At the very least tho, if Ana is unable to path to her babysitter after a set amount of time she should respawn where you originally pick her up.

I don't see why this was put on live, it has all the bugs still intact that were reported on lama. No escort quest is at the top of my list of enjoyable quests and the "let's sacrifice one person to kiting a mob around for >= 50% of the quest" is a really tired mechanic yet seems to be one MMO devs love to fall back on. Questionable game mechanics are one thing if the quest is actually working, but in conjuction with a bug laden release it only amplifies the unpleasantness of trying to play the quest.

I was excited to have a new raid to run. The expansion seems to have tampered alot of interest in the old quests, which is understandable as their rewards are not nearly as nice for end game play anymore. The reports of this loot from this latest raid didn't really seem all that motivating either but at least it was a level 24-26 raid, something to put to test capped characters with destinies capped and twist slots unlock (which elite certainly does, but is perhaps more of test of resource stockpiles). A good test for my characters is something to look forward to every couple , escort quest or not, but this is just filled with too many annoyances which are there due to bad worksmanship.

Have a little pride in your work, fix this raid, it's suppose to be the pinnacle of the expansion's storyline and instead it's just a big let down in it's current form.

[Spindlethumb]

The easiest way to avoid running into these bugs is to just not run the raid. Why does Turbine have to specifically close it? You know it's broken, so don't do it. Simple.

As far as everyone who is saying "How hard is it to fix this?" neither you nor I know what it takes to program or code a MMO, so you really shouldn't say things like that.

[emptysands]

This raid is a mess. Feels like something from shady car salesman.

Likely if it's not fixed by August then GW2 will mean another 6 month break.

[dragon2fire]

The easiest way to avoid running into these bugs is to just not run the raid. Why does Turbine have to specifically close it? You know it's broken, so don't do it. Simple.

As far as everyone who is saying "How hard is it to fix this?" neither you nor I know what it takes to program or code a MMO, so you really shouldn't say things like that.

We did not know it was still bugged when wasting 100's of pots to try and get it completed. Yes clearly not running it till they say its fixed. Is it really that much to ask for them to release a raid that you can finish.

[camgib]

There were lots of similar comments on Lama-land when this raid first came out. I ran it there and was similarly disappointed. I was hoping that when they released the expansion with the raid closed, they were going to fix some of this, but it sounds like the same old same old to me. We have a guild run coming up on Saturday and, while I have joined, I don't place much hope in having a pleasant time.

Take it down again and fix some of the broken mechanics in this raid. Please.

[Noopleh]

I agree with this. This raid should be taken down till it's fully fixed and revamped.

I suggest your rewrite or simply remove the hand of the godess. Possibly the most annoying as **** factor in this raid. You are ****ed if you are the only one with intim and then can't shrine. At least make the attacks slower and make it that not every single attack = knockdown.

The end fight. Possibly the glitchest and annoying raid bug. Things are not clear on how you are supposed to do them and if you don't have accuracy you will fail. Either make it an old style beat down or revamp the current system.

Gave this raid about 6 tried yesterday, on Orien, 3/6 times the gate didn't open. Rest of the time we wiped simply because of crippling lag.

Right now it's unfun and annoying as hell. Also, seriously, what the hell where you thinking by adding - heal amp to the environmental effect? Not everyone is a human monk and being a WF with 1300 HP with negative healing amp because you still didn't fix our heal amp and decided to add that ******** env effect we are pretty much a pain to be healed.

I mean: You nerf heals (good job!), you destroy racial healing amp (good job!) and add -x% healing amp as environmetal effect on this raid (awesome work!). Are you trying to get rid of the WF race?

[Emili]

There were lots of similar comments on Lama-land when this raid first came out. I ran it there and was similarly disappointed. I was hoping that when they released the expansion with the raid closed, they were going to fix some of this, but it sounds like the same old same old to me. We have a guild run coming up on Saturday and, while I have joined, I don't place much hope in having a pleasant time.

Take it down again and fix some of the broken mechanics in this raid. Please.

Crazy isn't it?...

I mean its actually entertaining to a point. I mean the issues not the raid.

Thing be I had one completion on Lam and three failures due to bugs, the first attaempt we got a completion but was only due to luck and lack of some mob spawn.

Now the amusing part be the first NON-COMPLETION happen to be with a dev present who took us in on a tour. and the following attempts with no dev along all was pretty much - the same.

Simply put... I figured Turbine held a raid out of the expansion on live initially because they were ironing out these bugs, Least that was the impression they made... They knew these bugs exist, easily testable and I assume they were taking time to correct... Yet, they simply either chose to sendit live, or had fixed it and put in the wrong version to live?

The later seems to me most likely the case... you see from my experience in closed beta and the end of lamannia - what went live is NOT the end of lamannia - most the bugs we have in other aspects of the xpac were fix'd be the end of Lamannia, just be those fixes were not sent to live. Version control? Lack of code check in? I have no clue but I do know this... They cannot possibly know that they were not putting in the old buggy raid of Lamannia to Live ... contains the same exact issues as the one where the Dev escorted us. Any smart developers would have tested thier work and double-checked it is in the patch you're pushing to the customer.

Three man Dwarven Defender Run on Khyber (normal) - we got to the last portal and killed everything but the box still read 'kill all portal keepers.' A little disappointing. Couldn't complete.

Vallin.

All keepers need be killed around the same time and then portal opens ... just so happened one or more of your keepers spawned somewhere else on the map.

[Alavatar]

I am going to point out that my guild ran 3 runs yesterday, completed all three, and used less than 10 pots in total.

We got lucky on the third run where the hand bugged out into one of the pocket areas with an artifact.

My point is that while the raid may be buggy it is completable. I don't see why it should be closed until it is fixed if others are able to complete it. Closing a quest should only be reserved for exploitable mechanics.

[Emili]

I am going to point out that my guild ran 3 runs yesterday, completed all three, and used less than 10 pots in total.

We got lucky on the third run where the hand bugged out into one of the pocket areas with an artifact.

My point is that while the raid may be buggy it is completable. I don't see why it should be closed until it is fixed if others are able to complete it. Closing a quest should only be reserved for exploitable mechanics.

Oh's it's completable, but really so by luck... I completed it on lam too with the bugs, yet still said they needed to fix and tweak it. Playing it the way to complete it with less risk of bug - can not be wai, or it would be a borefest for some people. EE difficulty is a pain in the arse in end-fight just due the design and existance of these bugs.

[Ew_vastano]

we completed on normal first time
now what can i say
the new content is awsome turbine did a realy good job usualy i berate then for everything but with the job they did i can even forgive them the buggy mess they have made of the game.

then i ran the end raid never seen such a blatent cash pull, waste of time in any game i have ever played

lord of blades you could learn to conserve resourses scroll heal tank etc even epic pot count wasnt to bad but cought in the web is a total resource drain right through blatent " please insert visa number here and collect 100 mana pots wich you can drink to finish the quest"

everyone moaned lob wasnt worth running cuz the loot wasnt that great well look at this loot totaly sucks, 6 chests 12 players 3 yes 3 named items non of wich were worth anything more then vendoring

VERY VERY dissapointed

[Grosbeak07]

Went in a guild run 7 people, didn't have much aspirations of finishing and did not.

Didn't notice any of the bugs or lag others have mentioned. One person lagged once, but it was only once.

I like the basic idea behind this raid. However there is FAR too much going on here.

I liked the fight against Lolth, having to kill the legs and dodge her attacks, once we got the pattern down went quite smooth. But the constant spawns were not fun and having to wade through hoards of Drow and Red named Priestess on NORMAL was just a huge grind. Did one of the portal fights which wasn't too bad, but on NORMAL you should at least get a shrine after beating Lolth the 1st time and for beating each of the Artifact bosses. Remove the red named monsters (on normal at least) and make the trash... trash easy to clear through.

Add Shrines, reduce the amount of spawns we have to deal with, especially in the area between portals. And this raid won't be half bad.

The hand was annoying, but manageable if we didn't get hung up on huge amounts of mobs. I actually like being chased by the hand, feature it.. don't bog it down trying to kill archers.

Raid really needs another pass before I think you hit a good spot. Less is more sometimes.

[Qezuzu]

I think the last barrier should be protected by 3-5 pillars that are spread out on that last island. Have each pillar have insane DR and healing, so long as its respective portal keeper is close to it. That would protect the raid from having portal keepers fall off.

Have Ana teleport herself back to the raid if she falls off.

The fight with Lolth's legs is kinda fun. But when you fight her torso or whatever, it just seems awkward. I mean, you're perched right up on the edge of the platform, with her belly/boobs covering your screen... if I were Lolth, I would just push everyone into the abyss.

It would a LOT less awkward if we just fought a Black Abbot-sized Avatar of her.

I sort of like the hand. It reminds me of the Master Hand in SSB. It's not too hard to handle it. But, it would be pretty nice if it could be damaged. And if it dies, it takes a few minutes to come back.

[yk49]

my experience.

1st run, Ana got bugged and disappeared.
none of us run this raid on Lama so we didnt even realized it, for like good 20mins of wondering around entirely empty instance.
then we recalled and reentered.

2nd run, at the end fight, portal keepers kept respawning everywhere even the keeper objective is done.
we fought them for 20mins, finally managed to open the gate, half of the members went through, then within the second, the gate got shut!
half of the members + Ana left behind. that was XXXX! another 30mins struggling to get Ana through the gate....

i know Shade posted something about tricks how to avoid these from happening.
workaround exsits, the raid is maybe playable. but its just something called "bad know-how", you know.
not impressed. you did take the time to fix this raid, and really this is what we get?
my rating on this raid is 0.5/10. im not going to recommend my friends to play this quest. shame on you, Trubine.

[dpadan17]

The easiest way to avoid running into these bugs is to just not run the raid. Why does Turbine have to specifically close it? You know it's broken, so don't do it. Simple.

As far as everyone who is saying "How hard is it to fix this?" neither you nor I know what it takes to program or code a MMO, so you really shouldn't say things like that.

First off we did not know of a bug. It was written that they were fixed. 2nd and most importantly, we PAID for this expansion. We paid for something that doesn't work right. You buy a car that has bugs you would expect them to fix it right?!? Well, what's the difference here? You wouldn't drive the car you just bought? Bad logic my friend on your part.

On another point, think of all the major pots on the ddo store that will be bought now. Everyone using their supply up, they will have no choice but to buy more. Saying it here, patch 2, no raid fix. It's a she because it is a fun raid.