How many HPs to shoot for for a rogue?

[RS-Makk]

Trying to understand some build trades for a rogue... how many HP do you folks recommend to shoot for?

(one thing I was wondering was whether it would make sense to fit in Epic Toughness - but it seems in the process you end up gimping yourself elsewhere?)

[thwart]

Trying to understand some build trades for a rogue... how many HP do you folks recommend to shoot for?

(one thing I was wondering was whether it would make sense to fit in Epic Toughness - but it seems in the process you end up gimping yourself elsewhere?)

I am only a casual player. No raiding or raid gear. Just pretty much normal stuff. My rogue had 420 hp at level 20. I found that to be pretty good.

You may see a lot of posts with people saying you need 8 bazillion hp but I thought it might be helpful to see what a casual player was able to obtain.

Have fun!

Edited to add: As soon as I posted this I remembered something pretty important. My rogue had 7 levels of fighter. Obviously that screws up the numbers and is not helpful at all! I should probably go back to work instead of making these misleading posts!

[Quarterling]

Ignore Rogann.

That's all I have to say.





Seriously though, you should try to aim for a stable 400 max hp at level 20, no less. If you can manage that, just be sure to keep your constitution up (meaning a +8 con thing) and anything that boosts your hit points. I haven't gotten into anything level 21+ yet, so I don't know what kind of new gear there is that grants more HP that stacks with everything else currently out there. Anyways, if you manage that, you shouldn't have any problem at all HP-wise at level 25.

Epic Toughness... meh. You need 21 base con first of all, and I would never start with a constitution higher than 16 on a rogue, and I would never put any level-ups into con. You'd be better off taking a second Improved Sneak Attack (once the bug is fixed).

Some people think otherwise and the only thing that runs through their mind is "Full-****** HP GRAHHH!!!". Don't listen to those people.

[Scortius]

Without doing the math, a rogue that qualified for eToughness wouldn't have less than around 540 hp at lvl 20, depending a bit on gear and other build choices. eToughness would likely take most rogues to 600ish.

I don't think it's a bad deal, although CON at that level is a tradeoff and you'll have a tick or two lower DCs or to-hits. I'm currently running with a rogue eligible for eToughness, but if I rebuilt I'm starting to think about playing with a lower CON and better DEX

If you get to 600 or better you have a decent buffer for getting tagged with big disintegrates/shockwaves and things. Useful for durability, but at that level it is likely taking points out of DEX that would protect those hp through saves and AC. The math to work out at what point you're better off defending your hp than having more hp has a lot of variables in it.

[.Revenga.]

400+ at level 20

500-600-700 at lvl 25 depending on your destininies. I did fine at lvl 20 with just over 500hp in epic elite tho, having 200 hp more in there doenst mean alot as you get hit by 150'ish hits. You just don't want to get hit.
Therefor you don't want to sacrifice your main defense (dps) for another 10-20hp, meaning that investing in dps and dodge is more efficient then investing in hp at epic levels (mobs still die rather fast, their damage scales harder then their hp).
All the other difficulties are (obviously) a joke.

I've yet to run an epic elite von6 or eDQ, i suspect that at least 600+hp is needed to stand in front of these ladies.

The overall increase of hp also makes healing amp a more important stat on rogues;

[KingOfCheese]

At lvl 20:

400 good enough
500 my goal - and a nice buffer
mid 500s - great to have it - but extreme gear requirements if you aren't otherwise sacrificing valuable stuff

At 25:

I don't know yet. I'm shooting for 600+ normal buffing.

[destiny4405]

At least 600 unbuffed at lvl 25 if you ever plan to run eevon6.

[Rogann]

Pre-expansion(for a pure rogue Horc) Max HP with 1 toughness/18 starting con/racial enhancements(+20 hp)(max geared) is 505(NOTE:This is using a 5 peice abi set with a GS necklace). Even with a +4 con tome youll still have a un-even stat score.

Of course this isnt a viable build. My un-gimp hp would have been 445 hp(with a +4 con tome) pre-expansion.

In my rogue post:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352591

I list two builds. One based off of survivability, and one off of max DPS.

Hp varies from 800 hp unbuffed to about 550 for the glass cannon.

[Xalir]

If you aim for the Shadowdancer eToughness isn't really needed. At lvl20 I had 407 HP (14 base CON). Now at lvl25 I have 597 HP unbuffed. The devs did alot for us rogues to increase survivability esp in the Shadowdancer tree.

If you aim for another ED it might be a different story and you might need the eToughness feat cause you lose alot of the survivability.

[evilgardengnome]

Over 9000!

[RS-Makk]

If you aim for the Shadowdancer eToughness isn't really needed. At lvl20 I had 407 HP (14 base CON). Now at lvl25 I have 597 HP unbuffed. The devs did alot for us rogues to increase survivability esp in the Shadowdancer tree.

I didn't think Shadowdancer had any HP stuff (other than the 10 HP per level everyone gets per epic level)?

[Quarterling]

Ignore Rogann.

That's all I have to say.

Hp varies from 800 hp unbuffed to about 550 for the glass cannon.

I rest my case...

[Rogann]

I rest my case...

wut

[Rogann]

I didn't think Shadowdancer had any HP stuff (other than the 10 HP per level everyone gets per epic level)?

Nope. Just the hp from epic levels(which is about 65ish hp)

[Rogann]

If you aim for the Shadowdancer eToughness isn't really needed. At lvl20 I had 407 HP (14 base CON). Now at lvl25 I have 597 HP unbuffed.

Im confused as to how you got 190 hp. 65-70ish is from epic levels but how the extra 120?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Before Update 14 it went like this at level 20:
Plan to have over 400 HP with gear easily accessible.
Plan to have over 450 HP with close to finished gear (not including silly things like +4 con tome though).
Plan to be able to get to a stable 500 HP if you want to run Epic Lord of Blades (that is without ship buff etc).

More is good, madstone boots+silver flame potions are great for situations in which you don't need to heal others as they give you a nice extra buffer and a significant DPS boost (due to attack speed increase from 20 BAB).

My rogue (Not your Average Rogue in my sig) at level 20 has something like:
450ish with max DPS gear
500 with +3 con ring
540 with rage/ship buff
580 with madstone
620 with double madstone
640 with earth stance (18 rogue/2 monk build)
680 with yugo pot

With that I've tanked epic bosses when there wasn't anyone better suited to it (including Epic Turigulon and his previous phase friend in U13).

[thomhas_of_mabar]

If you aim for the Shadowdancer eToughness isn't really needed. At lvl20 I had 407 HP (14 base CON). Now at lvl25 I have 597 HP unbuffed. The devs did alot for us rogues to increase survivability esp in the Shadowdancer tree.

Such as?

[Rogann]

Plan to have over 450 HP with close to finished gear (not including silly things like +4 con tome though).

I dont think there silly....

[xveganrox]

[IMG]
I dont think there silly....

Pshh that one is BtC... How retro :P

[Xalir]

I didn't think Shadowdancer had any HP stuff (other than the 10 HP per level everyone gets per epic level)?

Survivability not always equals to a higher HP pool.

Im confused as to how you got 190 hp. 65-70ish is from epic levels but how the extra 120?
07-11-2012 02:05 AM

I can't answer that yet, I'm not on my computer to log into DDO. And myDDO is broken for my chars :-/. I will post a breakdown tomorrow. Only thing I got was a +2 exc CON item after U14.

Such as?

25% permanent incorpability from Shadow Form
1% dodge chance per Shadow Charge you're holding
50% displacement for a minute after 20s enhanced invisibility
50% miss chance as long as you do not attack (3 times per rest)
100% dodge chance up to 12 seconds every x minutes.