Rogue 13/Monk 6/Druid 1...Nature's Spy

**Myrddinman** · 07-08-2012, 07:59 PM

I would love some input on this build possibility. I haven't fully fleshed it out yet, but wanted to put it up to the collective to garner some feedback and direction.

Here are a few thoughts...
-13 Rogue for Sneak and Thief Acrobat II for Quarterstaff attack speed and Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge uses, which should be cool with the new temporary dodge bonuses (does anyone know what happened in U14 now that there is a cooldown vs. uses per rest?)
-6 Monk for bonus feats, Adept of Air (10% stacking attack speed & 5% Doublestrike) and Ninja Spy I for Shadow Fade & extra Sneak Attack
-1 Druid for Ram's Might and Shillelagh

Again, I haven't worked everything out yet, but wanted to put out there what I have so far.

Thanks for the input and thoughtful discussion

**Myrddinman** · 07-10-2012, 08:35 PM

I decided to try the build and am sitting at 3 Rogue/3 Monk/1 Druid.

So far I'm liking it and the 1 level of Druid for Ram's Might and Shillelagh is working really well with Quarterstaff (right now, Souleater).

I went with HElf for Fighter Dilly to add some points to Stunning Blow/Trip/Sunder DCs. Also the second clicky for Bluff is working great as well.

I'm sitting in Air Stance for the Doublestrike chance and attack speed boost.

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments?

**Diyon** · 07-10-2012, 08:55 PM

Good setup, thought about it myself. One thing though, Air stance attack speed doesn't stack with haste (you did say "stacking attack speed").

**Myrddinman** · 07-10-2012, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Diyon

Good setup, thought about it myself. One thing though, Air stance attack speed doesn't stack with haste (you did say "stacking attack speed").

Thanks.

As for the stacking, I was referring to Air Stance/Thief Acrobat. I should have been more clear

**wax_on_wax_off** · 07-10-2012, 10:16 PM

Definitely a solid concept, the +2 damage/+2 strength from Ram's Might and +1[weapon damage] from Sha La La is a solid addition to the Acrobat platform.

My approach to such a build would be to focus on movement speed, crowd control and survivability as it'll never compete toe-to-toe in the DPS arena. Improved Trip, Hamstring and even Sap could be useful. I hear the Improved Feint/Great Cleave combo is good fun as well.

I'd suggest to plan out the build from level 1 to 25, it's too painful to hit x level and realise you've messed something up but at least you have 1 LR available (though I'd prefer to save that if possible).

**Myrddinman** · 07-10-2012, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off

Definitely a solid concept, the +2 damage/+2 strength from Ram's Might and +1[weapon damage] from Sha La La is a solid addition to the Acrobat platform.

My approach to such a build would be to focus on movement speed, crowd control and survivability as it'll never compete toe-to-toe in the DPS arena. Improved Trip, Hamstring and even Sap could be useful. I hear the Improved Feint/Great Cleave combo is good fun as well.

I'd suggest to plan out the build from level 1 to 25, it's too painful to hit x level and realise you've messed something up but at least you have 1 LR available (though I'd prefer to save that if possible).

Thanks Wax!

I do plan on going with Great Cleave, so the combo with Improved Feint sounds interesting, but I would need to grab Combat Expertise (I was planning on going with Power Attack instead); however, I am trying to go with a Bluff theme.

I am also still wavering on whether or not HElf was a good idea, or if I should have opted for the extra feat for Human. As such, I really went with HElf for the Fighter Dilly so that I could add some Tactics bonuses. I supposed I could have went with Dwarf for the Con bump and still kept the Tactics boost.

Here's the feat list so far:
1. Power Attack
2. Toughness
3. Cleave
4. Great Cleave
5. Dodge
6. Stunning Blow
7. IC: Bludgeon
8. Mobility
9. Spring Attack
10. Improved Trip

I believe I still get two more feats after 18, correct?

**wax_on_wax_off** · 07-10-2012, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Myrddinman

Thanks Wax!

I do plan on going with Great Cleave, so the combo with Improved Feint sounds interesting, but I would need to grab Combat Expertise (I was planning on going with Power Attack instead); however, I am trying to go with a Bluff theme.

I am also still wavering on whether or not HElf was a good idea, or if I should have opted for the extra feat for Human. As such, I really went with HElf for the Fighter Dilly so that I could add some Tactics bonuses. I supposed I could have went with Dwarf for the Con bump and still kept the Tactics boost.

Here's the feat list so far:
1. Power Attack
2. Toughness
3. Cleave
4. Great Cleave
5. Dodge
6. Stunning Blow
7. IC: Bludgeon
8. Mobility
9. Spring Attack
10. Improved Trip

I believe I still get two more feats after 18, correct?

You need Combat Expertise (and 13 int) to qualify for Improved Trip. I'd swap out Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack for Improved Feint/Combat Expertise/Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning perhaps (to qualify for Overwhelming Critical). Remember the 21 dex requirement for Improved Sneak Attack too.

**Myrddinman** · 07-10-2012, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off

You need Combat Expertise (and 13 int) to qualify for Improved Trip. I'd swap out Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack for Improved Feint/Combat Expertise/Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning perhaps (to qualify for Overwhelming Critical). Remember the 21 dex requirement for Improved Sneak Attack too.

Well, if I go Ninja Spy for Shadow Fade (big part of the build is evasion style defenses) I will need Dodge. I was also thinking that with the amount maneuvering and whipping the staff around, Spring Attack would be nice to have, which would mean Mobility...plus all 3 grant Dodge bonuses. You are right about Improved Trip needing Combat Expertise...forgot about that.

I haven't dug into too many of the new feats...I guess I need to

What are your thoughts on Dwarf over Human or HElf?

**wax_on_wax_off** · 07-10-2012, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Myrddinman

Well, if I go Ninja Spy for Shadow Fade (big part of the build is evasion style defenses) I will need Dodge. I was also thinking that with the amount maneuvering and whipping the staff around, Spring Attack would be nice to have, which would mean Mobility...plus all 3 grant Dodge bonuses. You are right about Improved Trip needing Combat Expertise...forgot about that.

I haven't dug into too many of the new feats...I guess I need to

What are your thoughts on Dwarf over Human or HElf?

I'd stick with helf, the tactics adds+versatility: damage+healing amp (with light path) is just too nice. NSI isn't such a big deal now as you can get 10% incorporeality from a ghostly item (like Epic Ring of the Stalker).

**Myrddinman** · 07-10-2012, 10:56 PM

Also, does anyone know if the [weapon damage] boost of Combat feats like Cleave, stack with the [weapon damage] boost from Shillelagh?

Thanks!

**elgranmago13** · 07-10-2012, 11:37 PM

Why not half-orc? Bonus to str, +4 dmg with qstaff and increased glancing blows. I have a 13 rog/6 monk/1 ftr horc that does well for me. I will probably go with the druid level if/when I TR.

**LordTigerDawn** · 07-11-2012, 09:57 AM

From a base attack point of view, taking druid reduces it by 1. I would consider instead of rogue 13 taking monk 7 or druid 2.

you do loose a rogue feat and 1d6 sneak, but the Base attack costs you 2% attack speed.

Just pointing it out...

**wax_on_wax_off** · 07-11-2012, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by LordTigerDawn

From a base attack point of view, taking druid reduces it by 1. I would consider instead of rogue 13 taking monk 7 or druid 2.

you do loose a rogue feat and 1d6 sneak, but the Base attack costs you 2% attack speed.

Just pointing it out...

Which is what madstone/divine power clickies are for. Plus with BAB increases from epic levels you hit the 15 BAB for the next speed increase anyway so I don't think the different level split would give an attack speed increase.

**Myrddinman** · 07-11-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off

Which is what madstone/divine power clickies are for. Plus with BAB increases from epic levels you hit the 15 BAB for the next speed increase anyway so I don't think the different level split would give an attack speed increase.

^^
This

Not to mention I'd loose the +1w[weapon damage] from Shillelagh and Ram's Might.

**voodoogroves** · 07-11-2012, 01:03 PM

I'd really be tempted to look at
(a) Tripping w/ CE and Improved Trip
(b) Cleave-like spamming

Both of these lead to some strengths w/ the LD destiny. I am personally loving a multi-cleaving build right now with things like Souleater, Petrifing Shadow Staff, etc. Good fun, decent weapon-based CC (similar to AA or Artis using Frozen Tunics and Earth/other bows).

This is really the 13/6/1 of before, but without the Fighter feat and haste boost.

You'd have to gear quite a bit to get the kinds of DCs I like on epic-ish tactics DCs.

**Myrddinman** · 07-11-2012, 10:00 PM

Wow, Cleave with Souleater is sick at level 7

I am having tons of fun with this character so far. I didn't see an answer to this...do separate sources of +[W] stack with each other?

For instance, does Shillelagh at +1[W] stack with the +1[W] from Cleave?

This is really the 13/6/1 of before, but without the Fighter feat and haste boost.

Yes, it is...I think that the level of Druid adds so much more than Fighter:
-Ram's Might for +2 Strength and +2 damage
-Shillelagh for +1[W] on Q-Staves (2d6 FTW)
-You still get the first tier of class based Toughness with Druid, as you do with Fighter

You do loose out on a bonus feat, but I think I like the trade-off

**wax_on_wax_off** · 07-11-2012, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Myrddinman

I am having tons of fun with this character so far. I didn't see an answer to this...do separate sources of +[W] stack with each other?

Yes.

With epic enhancements you can add lots of different ones together to get getting +3 or 4[weapon damage].

**Myrddinman** · 07-11-2012, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off

Yes.

With epic enhancements you can add lots of different ones together to get getting +3 or 4[weapon damage].

Thank you!

I'd +1 you, but I need to spread the love around first

**wax_on_wax_off** · 07-11-2012, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Myrddinman

Thank you!

I'd +1 you, but I need to spread the love around first

No more help for you then!

Oh fine, I agree with the poster above who suggests light path over dark.

**Khaziim** · 08-02-2012, 01:14 PM

I am fairly new to DDO so please be kind. I like the idea of this build and gave it a shot on the DDO Planner. This is my first attempt at a build but i have read a lot on the forums. What do you think? Also keep in mind i put points in spot and such to level but they can be changed later.

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Whiteoak 
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Druid) 
Hit Points: 288
Spell Points: 240 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 19
Will: 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 23                   24
Dexterity            15                 17                   22
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence         10                 12                   12
Wisdom               14                 16                   16
Charisma              8                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                  7                   13
Bluff                 3                 18                   18
Concentration         2                 11                   11
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
Disable Device        4                 24                   24
Haggle               -1                 -1                    1
Heal                  2                  3                    3
Hide                  3                 15                   15
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  7                 11                   15
Listen                2                  3                    3
Move Silently         3                 15                   15
Open Lock             6                 29                   29
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  1                    1
Search                4                 24                   24
Spot                  6                 26                   26
Swim                  3                  7                    7
Tumble                3                  7                   13
Use Magic Device      3                 22                   22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Druid)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Adept of Wind


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

Ty Myrddinman for the awesome build idea.

Thread: Rogue 13/Monk 6/Druid 1...Nature's Spy

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