Devs, Let's Talk: Healing

[hit_fido]

Cleric Radiant Servant II Requires All of: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I, Cleric Prayer of Life I, Cleric Radiant Servant I

Also major healing lore items generate spellcrit.

Person quoted was regarding a favored soul; crit healing enhancements are not required.

Healing lore items makes the spend even more questionable - why would someone drop any AP at all to move from 9% to 12% or 12% to 15% on something they feel is largely useless and ineffectual?

[Auralana7214]

Looking past whether we heal for more or not for one minute, let's turn to:

Why?

Why should some spells (heal and divine light spells it seems) be treated differently than other spells?

Why make a new system that simplifies spell damage calculation... only to make obscure exceptions?

This! +1, you win! Shut the thread down! Seriously, why!?! We all want to know! We may heal just as well as before the update, but why does everyone else get a buff and divines get shafted? What was the thought process here?

[morticianjohn]

Interesting. Do you feel similarly regarding weapon crits? Never land when needed, or overkill when not needed? And yet people spend feats on those.

Here are some numbers which explain

normal weapon damage ~50
crit weapon damage ~150
enemy HP ~10000

normal heal spell ~450
crit heal spell ~1500
player HP ~1200

So you can see that healing crits are far less useful than damage crits which are almost always useful. Also the healing crits lose usefulness if the target has less HP or higher healing amp to make the average heal more than 450. I do agree that if you turn metas off and utilize mass cures you might find some good use out of the crit healing line. There are ways to adapt as a healer to do any quest/raid pot free. As people keep saying there are other spells than heal/mass heal however, these methods of healing fail to match the efficiency of healing that we enjoyed. In addition this will cause healers to run out of SP faster (even if they take the crit lines of healing) than they would have if spell power applied full 100% of it's power.

I can see there was a motive (to bring heal/mass heal in line with the other healing options) however, it is an AWFUL way of implementing this plan. As mentioned many times in this thread spellpower is a simple system 1 point = 1%. The more exceptions you have to this rule the more convoluted the system becomes. Combine that with the way it has sneaked into the game and you can see why people are upset. If they wanted to bring heal/mass heal in line with the other cure spells there are other ways of doing it which would not cause this kind of resentment towards turbine nor would it hamper those healers who will end up using resources due to this change.

[barryman5000]

I keep going back to the thought of why change the formula of how spell power works and instead change the base values of the spells.

Doesn't it make more sense to have heals base value changed from 10 hp a level to something more like 8hp a level? Thats how you normally nerf a spell. By making spell power changes you will confuse tons of people and make gear less important.

Spell power should either effect a SLA or not. If you want you can adjust metamagics that affect a SLA just like how it is for wizards.

Why the confusing way of doing it this one time? Seems like another rushed thought process. Of course nobody has come forward to give us an idea of the thought process.

Also we all know heal amp is borked. You should fix that instead of spells. It creates an unfair advantage to those with vs. those without. Alot of my friends are without on the healing amp side of things and they are your more casual players.

[barryman5000]

Some notable exceptions to this general rule are monk melee crits, pally smites [yes monks and pallys *are* divine subclasses]

The part I am confused about is outlined in red. Huh?

[ZeebaNeighba]

We may heal just as well as before the update, but why does everyone else get a buff and divines get shafted?

It's like when your employer gives you a 1% raise...and then you find out inflation that year was 5%. Sure you may have a bit more money, but that amount of money isn't as valuable.

[Razcar]

Since it seems you do NOT play a CLR/FvS I will gladly inform you that there are more Healing spells available then just Heal and Mass Heal.

That doesn't answer WHY Heal, Heal, Mass and divine light spells should only get 50% from Spell Power items and enchantments.

While there are other both defensive and offensive divine spells than the ones affected, that does not make this nerf right, logical or needed. Just survivable. And all nerfs are, of course.

And your reasoning goes, IMO, a bit like this:
"Hey, I want to cut off your left arm"
"Why do you want to do that?"
"Don't ask why. You'll have your right arm left. Whats wrong with using your right arm? Gee, people are spoiled."

[Chai]

Firstly healing spells have been buffed overall. Heal and Mass Heal are about where they were, but non-meta'ed Mass Cures and single Cures are much more efficient and potent than ever. Only exception is on WF where Healer's Friend seems to have issues.

This.

[Chai]

This! +1, you win! Shut the thread down! Seriously, why!?! We all want to know! We may heal just as well as before the update, but why does everyone else get a buff and divines get shafted? What was the thought process here?

How many screenshots did we see of FvS solo TODs over the years. More than all other classes combined. Most classes are zero.

The players continue to demonstrate publicly what the OP classes/builds are in the game, then act all surprised then the nerf bat gets swung.

[DeafeningWhisper]

How many screenshots did we see of FvS solo TODs over the years. More than all other classes combined. Most classes are zero.

The players continue to demonstrate publicly what the OP classes/builds are in the game, then act all surprised then the nerf bat gets swung.

Okay, sure, how many screen shots of clerics doing the same? Because they got hit by the nerf stick too you know.

[Auralana7214]

How many screenshots did we see of FvS solo TODs over the years. More than all other classes combined. Most classes are zero.

The players continue to demonstrate publicly what the OP classes/builds are in the game, then act all surprised then the nerf bat gets swung.

You could say the same thing about PMs. This isn't restricted to one class. And FVS isn't the only divine class. My main is a cleric. HELLOOOOO!

[WruntJunior]

How many screenshots did we see of FvS solo TODs over the years. More than all other classes combined. Most classes are zero.

The players continue to demonstrate publicly what the OP classes/builds are in the game, then act all surprised then the nerf bat gets swung.

Heh, the FvS build generally used for soloing raids has little to do with standard FvS play...that FvS build is typically max con, max healing amp...and hasn't been nerfed much (hint: very high healing amp builds will be over-healed no matter what). The only reason FvS are the preferred vessel for soloing raids like ToD is because they combine the ability to kill at range with high-output self healing. With the ability by clerics to get wings, the one real advantage that FvS for such soloing had will be greatly diminished (that is of mobility).

[Chai]

Okay, sure, how many screen shots of clerics doing the same? Because they got hit by the nerf stick too you know.

Yeap, same spell list. Their enhancements allowed for more overhealing and less damage.

[Chai]

You could say the same thing about PMs. This isn't restricted to one class. And FVS isn't the only divine class. My main is a cleric. HELLOOOOO!

Hello. PMs got nerfed a few time now. Hilarious that people on the forums moaned more about PMs then FvS, because FvS were soloing more raids than anyone else.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yeap, same spell list. Their enhancements allowed for more overhealing and less damage.

So nerfing Clerics because FvS are OP is okay?

[Auralana7214]

Hello. PMs got nerfed a few time now. Hilarious that people on the forums moaned more about PMs then FvS, because FvS were soloing more raids than anyone else.

That's my point. PMs as a class (well, I guess a sub class) were nerfed. Your comment before pertained only to FVS like they are the only ones who are affected by this change. They are not. Clerics with fewer SP are also affected.

[Chai]

That's my point. PMs as a class (well, I guess a sub class) were nerfed. Your comment before pertained only to FVS like they are the only ones who are affected by this change. They are not. Clerics with fewer SP are also affected.

I said absolutely nothing about FvS being the only ones affected by the change. What I did was comment on who got divines into this mess in the first place, by continually demonstrating how OP it was.

[Chai]

So nerfing Clerics because FvS are OP is okay?

Whats being nerfed is overkill healing and overkill light damage. Clerics are better at positive and worse at light, while FvS are better at light and worse at positive. Trying to outline the cleric class as the victim is cute, because they really arent far behind FvS in power. Im still waiting for "will somebody please think of the druids!!"

The question in my original quote was "why" - which I answered.

[KillEveryone]

Interesting. Do you feel similarly regarding weapon crits? Never land when needed, or overkill when not needed? And yet people spend feats on those.

For boss fights, improved crit is nice. Not as good against trash unless you land it right away.

For healing, a steady output is good. Since you can't plan on a crit to heal when you need it, then if you can't keep a raid party up without occasional crit, then it increases your chances that your party will die or you will need to drink pots that you shouldn't have had to drink.

[dterror]

What really gets me, and what I believe ultimately motivated Turbine to swing the nerfbat at casters in general, are all the empty headed melee oriented punks who were constantly crying on the forums and elsewhere about 'arcanes are too OP, they can kill all the trash before we can take a swing". "Divines farting BB's are OP, we spend all our time chasing stuff down and can't have fun killing it".

Melee had their day in the spotlight at low levels. Non casters are MEANT to be more powerful than casters at low levels.
Spellcasters of ALL types are meant to be near GODLIKE by the time they hit level 20, and melee are there as bodyguards / meatshields, and for the boss fights.

In short: Everyone needs to QYB about other classes and whether they're OP, because all it does is start the nerfbat swinging.
Turbine, please make healing the same as any other spellcasting, and let it get 100% of potency / devotion!