Devs, Let's Talk: Healing

[Chai]

The real problem with this is that if you make FvS (and cleric) get significantly nerfed, most people who were playing the class for the power move on to another class, generally either sorc or wizard. The problem here is that when a lot of people stop playing healers, the whole game suffers. Power gamers may be fine with or without healers....but I have serious doubts to how more casual players will be, especially with casual players getting the sudden ability to get rather high in levels rather quickly relatively recently.

The people who gravitated to it because it was OP and could solo the pants off most quests will drop the class, sure. Most play it because they like playing a versitile healer, and will not switch simply due to some SP nerf on one end to conpensate for power creep on the other end.

In all honesty, FvS were only a vessel for the skill of the players...definitely a bit OP, but that's part of the nature of the game, as FvS have high mobility, good ranged dps, and potent self-healing. It's only a matter of time until most of those FvS players that soloed difficult raids finish their TRs into an arcane and start soloing that sort of content again, really.

And when they clearly and repeatedly demonstrated they could solo content designed for 12 people, it was only a matter of time before the class got rebalanced. Im surprised it took this long.

If running in circles backward while pushing three buttons is skilled, why does everyone hate arcane archers.
(sorry, had to)

[justagame]

The people who gravitated to it because it was OP and could solo the pants off most quests will drop the class, sure. Most play it because they like playing a versitile healer, and will not switch simply due to some SP nerf on one end to conpensate for power creep on the other end.



And when they clearly and repeatedly demonstrated they could solo content designed for 12 people, it was only a matter of time before the class got rebalanced. Im surprised it took this long.

If running in circles backward while pushing three buttons is skilled, why does everyone hate arcane archers.
(sorry, had to)

Oh come on.

1. You don't balance an entire class based on what the most elite of elite players are accomplishing (and even then, often with outrageous consummable usage, just to prove it can be done).

2. Well-played sorcs can out-damage FVS by a mile, while still easily self-healing any number of ways. And their damage output is going UP, not DOWN -- I don't see anyone complaining. When sorcs complained about the original change to metas in the first beta, it was changed right away. Now that FVS are singled out, all they get is "stop your whining."

[ZeebaNeighba]

The real problem with this is that if you make FvS (and cleric) get significantly nerfed, most people who were playing the class for the power move on to another class, generally either sorc or wizard. The problem here is that when a lot of people stop playing healers, the whole game suffers. Power gamers may be fine with or without healers....but I have serious doubts to how more casual players will be, especially with casual players getting the sudden ability to get rather high in levels rather quickly relatively recently.

It seems that the best people (the ones soloing raids) are usually not pugging. They're soloing or running with other elite players. It won't be a big difference if the elite players move on to the next elite class, except maybe for the groups they were in (and as you stated, many of them don't need a healer). But if this nerf becomes obvious to everyone, it will affect gameplay quite a bit.

[WruntJunior]

It seems that the best people (the ones soloing raids) are usually not pugging. They're soloing or running with other elite players. It won't be a big difference if the elite players move on to the next elite class, except maybe for the groups they were in (and as you stated, many of them don't need a healer). But if this nerf becomes obvious to everyone, it will affect gameplay quite a bit.

The problem is that, as the best people abandon a class, it'll create a ripple effect of people thinking the class is useless...definitely not everyone, but potentially enough people. A smaller pool of healers is a smaller pool of healers...and that's bad for the game.

Still hasn't been a dev response to all of this that I've seen...but a nerf to many FUTURE caster items is a significant nerf. I'm really hoping this change is just an accident and just disappears before the update....but even then, it's a bad precedent.

[stockwizard5]

My FvS is happy to heal a pug shroud or tod or ev6 or LoB when he's not solo'ing (which I understand from the forums is all us "power gamers" do for fun) ...

That is as long as I can do stuff other then spend all my time/resources healing.

1. Please take the SR check back off Implosion (that way a fully healed spec build, your goal apparently, can still have a reason to TR/etc, get a high dc, and have fun once per minute (while healing the other 54 seconds).

2. Make more healing over time stuff (and not useless 1d4 but bigtime). I have no problem using up a bunch of spell points on the group (so they are being "self healed") while I go do whatever it is us we do while we are not healing.

[Autolycus]

The full line of critical enhancements is not useful or necessary. Besides the reasons mentioned by the previous poster, for situations like eDQ or eVelah where the party is together, the pacing of heals is determined by the person with the lowest health. If 8 people need healing, and one maxes with a crit - it is largely irrelevant. For healing solitary targets, like a Horoth tank, you will purposely keep the target above a certain range (i.e. 500-600HP insurance for Horoth's disintegrate) so you deliberately avoid having to rely on a lucky panic critical.

As a guildy, I apologize Hen, but I remember a couple of raids that wiped largely because you opted for Eschew Materials over Quicken. Regardless of what feats you have now, I'm fairly certain you're the most devoted Turbine white knight that I know, and people judge what you post accordingly.

The spellpower overhaul was supposed to simplify calculations. The exceptions for divines are counterproductive to that end. The documentation for the exact numerical reduction for divines on various spells is not well defined, and can easily be overlooked. It was only mentioned in passing in the release notes after several threads asking if reduced healing capacity was bugged or WAI. Why these exceptions target divines and not arcane magic classes remains mysterious and the devs do not seem willing to explain their motives. I imagine people would take this better if there was a well-reasoned transparent explanation.

In another thread, I mentioned that with the spellpower conversion, potency, devotion, etc. items are no longer restricted to spell levels. For example, the Epic Shining Crest of St. Markus had Improved Devotion VIII (30%) which did not apply to the level 9 Mass Heal. Now that same item is +78 Devotion, which gives 78% improvement on all healing spells. While this may be a buff, Amrath clickies were nerfed heavily, so I consider it a wash. Regardless, why the devs singled out devotion and radiance over anything arcane is bewildering and nonsensical.

Considering that Hen plays his cleric anonymously, I think he would agree that in the pug scene, the dearth of clerics and divines in public LFMs could use a little positive attention to make them more appealing to play outside of a fixed group.

Well said. +1 when off timer

[Autolycus]

The cynical person would say that the healing reduction addendum on the release notes was deliberately timed to be seen late on Friday.

Hehe, I would call that person astute.

[morticianjohn]

Soloing raids as an accomplishment is not about quantity of spells. Its about efficiency of mana usage.




It has everything to do with the power of the abilities of the class.

1st - nerfing heal/mass heal has nothing to do with those builds who soloed ToD. Those builds will always be topped off by a single cast of heal and solo obviously means they'll never cast mass heal.
2nd - they haven't yet mentioned the nerf to light damage is WAI. Specifically they've only mentioned heal/mass heal. We aren't even sure if the cure light wounds SLA is being adjusted as that was the main weapon which allowed for no pot solo ToDs (although arcanes have done that also and it looks like that build hasn't taken a huge nerf).
3rd - I've only seen a couple of no pot solo ToD achievements. I don't think that this should be the standard for a nerf.
lastly - it has to do with resource use. They want players to use more resources. If your solo ToD achievement was the standard for the nerfing then they would have nerfed FvS a long time ago before the wing nerfs. It was only after the "no pot" solo achievement that they started bringing down nerfs like wing nerf and now this. However, as others have mentioned this nerf affects non-soloers more (until they announce the nerf to light damage is WAI which they might do).

Conclusion - you profess to know why they have created this nerf but in reality you don't know any more than the rest of us. They don't only nerf OP classes (just ask the forum bards) sometimes the nerfs have nothing to do with the achievements thread. People are asking why but they are not asking you why because clearly you don't know.

[Mryal]

Lets be honest.The real issue is not heal beign nerfed.Its that this will cost more pots.And DDO is the only game where SP recovery is hard to get.Make pots sellable on npc.

Fact: We all know this change is only so that turbine can make more money selling store pots to every healer.

[Antiguo]

The equality that must be maintained is that each player must be allowed equal *access* to make a contribution to quest completion.
Each Class has
1. essential "primary" role--area of contribution with strong synergy;
2. "secondary" role--area of contribution with moderate synergy;
and sometimes
3. an "auxiliary" role--area of contribution minimal synergy.
The varying power levels in each role *ought* to be determined my player choice in terms of trade-offs: building in a little more of "this" in trade off for a little less of "that" in the build.

The exception to this being the recent 50% nerf on divine casting, which arbitrarily *denies full access* to the player of said divine caster, instead limiting the player to *half* access, in order to prop up the lowest common denominator.
By nerfing divine casters by 50%, the result is that player contribution with *all* roles are devalued by 50% across the board, this segregates divine casters as second rate in terms of contribution potential.

Thats nice and all, but i was rebutting some guy who thinks melee shouldnt be viable at end game because supposedly they are better at early levels (false) and then someone who had balance and cloning mistaken.

I like your deffinition of "equality" tho, but some pple here think that divine casters and for extension all the casters MUST BE better at this game because they won at character selection, they want divines (and other casters) whit 2 or 3 primary roles and then some secondary roles to icing the cake.

[Antiguo]

My FvS is happy to heal a pug shroud or tod or ev6 or LoB when he's not solo'ing (which I understand from the forums is all us "power gamers" do for fun) ...

That is as long as I can do stuff other then spend all my time/resources healing.

1. Please take the SR check back off Implosion (that way a fully healed spec build, your goal apparently, can still have a reason to TR/etc, get a high dc, and have fun once per minute (while healing the other 54 seconds).

2. Make more healing over time stuff (and not useless 1d4 but bigtime). I have no problem using up a bunch of spell points on the group (so they are being "self healed") while I go do whatever it is us we do while we are not healing.

You have dps and CC, and debuffs, if you want to espec full dps and join a raid as full dps whit some healing spells for emergencies none is stopping you. I personally would always welcome a good DPS whit some spot healing, good self sufficiency and some CC.

[WruntJunior]

You have dps and CC, and debuffs, if you want to espec full dps and join a raid as full dps whit some healing spells for emergencies none is stopping you. I personally would always welcome a good DPS whit some spot healing, good self sufficiency and some CC.

I wish more people had that view. Many people raise holy hell if you try to tell them that your character, despite being a FvS, is not a healer...even if it's your group and the content is easy to self-heal through (my experience with leveling Youngwrunt...where I was NOT a healer).