Devs, Let's Talk: Healing

[Flavilandile]

All that said, I ask for reasons on the diminished efficiency on the two main healing spells, and probably to radiant servent's aura.

I didn't see anything diminished in the efficiency of my healing spells.

As for my aura it hits for about 20 more than before. ( from 20-26 with crits in the 40 Range to 30+ with crits in the 56-65 range ).

Those that see nerf in healing needs to take time to think. And look at the items they use. Potency Items won't do it anymore. They need to pick up Devotion Items.

This is the so called nerf :
before U-14 Potency Items worked on Healing spells, making Devotion items redundant, as Devotion was limited to Healing.
after U-14 Potency Items works at half power at best on Healing spells, while Devotion works at full power.

Firstly healing spells have been buffed overall. Heal and Mass Heal are about where they were, but non-meta'ed Mass Cures and single Cures are much more efficient and potent than ever. Only exception is on WF where Healer's Friend seems to have issues.

Healing non-elite difficulties is extremely easy with a few exceptions. Solohealed an epic hard DQ2 last night on an unlevelled destiny while battling crippling lag in a PUG with 7 people, and didn't use a scroll much less a mana potion despite us having only 7 people in the group.

As for Elite - once you learn not to try to keep everyone topped off all the time, healing is no more skill intensive than playing a melee or arcane. I generally use more mana potions when solo crowd controlling 6 person content than in any other situation, certainly more than I ever use healing.

Buffed, with the right items.

The rest is mana management and metagaming.

[ZeebaNeighba]

Oh, everyone will live through it, no doubt. Some will quit pugging, some will quit being the divine, and some may quit entirely. A scarce few will actually like it though, as shown in these threads. As I said, in the end, this is just a game, and it's no skin off my back. I can run perfectly fine on my characters without them, or can work around hirelings well enough. After playing for over two years with one of the worst divine caster players on Khyber, I don't need one. But 99% of players do. And what affects divines, affects them.

Sure, we'll live, but if people are quitting pugging (specifically healers) or just quit healers it will make pugging less fun since most groups rely on a healer, and if there will be some quitters who are too impatient to wait longer for a healer in a pug. And there are the few people who think the healer nerf just sealed it, totally bad nerf+bug update and quit altogether. But I don't see where Turbine thought they were getting any benefit from this, besides possibly store pots, but I don't expect especially huge sales on those (maybe I'm biased and I never buy anything temporary out of the store, I only buy permanent stuff like quests and classes).

And it sure isn't helping to be silent about it and only sneak in references to it in a bullet point in release notes that only really proves it's WAI.

[dragon2fire]

Um... that's weird. What build are you trying to use to CC on? Sounds like it's a build that can't CC worth a darn. Are you trying to provide gimpy bard CC? Or trying to CC on a Pale Master that has gimped his CC abilities?

There are two ways to really cc on a divine and they both work if you got the dc's witch i am sure sirgog does. First is comet fall not only does it add some damage but with just heighten it is good solid cc. Second is greater command. Come to think of it sound burst would work ok to if you are built for it.

[auntjobiska]

This is the so called nerf :
before U-14 Potency Items worked on Healing spells, making Devotion items redundant, as Devotion was limited to Healing.
after U-14 Potency Items works at half power at best on Healing spells, while Devotion works at full power.

I have to disagree. A Heal test on my lvl17 cleric with a Devotion item added only 45.45% of the spell power (LESS than 50%), while the Potency item added exactly 50%.

Why is this?

AJ

[WruntJunior]

There are two ways to really cc on a divine and they both work if you got the dc's witch i am sure sirgog does. First is comet fall not only does it add some damage but with just heighten it is good solid cc. Second is greater command. Come to think of it sound burst would work ok to if you are built for it.

I would actually be surprised if his WF FvS has the wisdom to have decent DCs.

[simo0208]

The fact is that healing got a 50% power reduction while other classes did not get such a reduction. This made healing much less effective, which made MORE of my healer's SP going to heal spells instead of things that are actually fun like blade barrier, destruction, etc.

This nerf effectively turned all favored souls and clerics into an either/or proposition. Either you play a nanny-bot and wish you never played the game or you play a divine caster and incur the wrath of the players in your group and make them wish they never played the game.

In the end, one thing is clear: People will stop playing the game because of this. AND compound this with all the other asinine bugs and "dev decisions" and you get a game that is ready to fold up shop.

The devs think they are awesome, marked by many reports of them mocking people in game in Lamma-land. Newsflash to Devs: You're not awesome. Start looking at this game like the players are your clients and the game is your product. Instead, you seem to thinkt the players are your pawns and the game is your ponzi scheme.

[Hendrik]

All that said, I ask for reasons on the diminished efficiency on the two main healing spells, and probably to radiant servent's aura.

Since it seems you do NOT play a CLR/FvS I will gladly inform you that there are more Healing spells available then just Heal and Mass Heal.

[WruntJunior]

Since it seems you do NOT play a CLR/FvS I will gladly inform you that there are more Healing spells available then just Heal and Mass Heal.

Let me know how well epic elite raid healing goes for you with mass cures, both efficiency-wise and potency-wise. Mass heal isn't the most-used healing spell because it's the only one people like...it's the most-used because it's the most efficient and most potent available. From my play-time on my melee FvS post-expansion, mass cures still don't do enough with metamagics to replace mass heal without having to spam them.

[GermanicusMaximus]

I have to disagree. A Heal test on my lvl17 cleric with a Devotion item added only 45.45% of the spell power (LESS than 50%), while the Potency item added exactly 50%.

Why is this?

AJ

Some people in these threads clearly believe everyone who dislikes these changes simply has bad gear and its a matter of regearing.

I use a tier 2 alchemical weapon crafted from LoB: Superior Devotion 9 (now converted into the corresponding Devotion Spell Power, including a +15 implement bonus) with Superior Healing Lore. Finding a better item isn't an easy task, and I'm not sure there even is one.

Healing is substantially gimped now compared to update 13. I'm sure that if I devote the majority of my Epic Destiny points to healing options I can recoup my healing power, but spending all those Epic Destiny points simply to become a healbot is not a reasonable expectation.

There are posters in these threads who were previously reliable sources of information who now have become nothing more than apologists for Turbine. My guess is that being part of the Mournlands program comes with a price. Its probably embarrassing for some of our fellow players to help shape these changes, and then watch their ideas splatter when they hit the pavement.

[simo0208]

Since it seems you do NOT play a CLR/FvS I will gladly inform you that there are more Healing spells available then just Heal and Mass Heal.

This is pretty short-sighted. The most efficient use of spell points for healing is mass heal and regular heal. Try the spell point usage of a mass crit, serious, or light and see what happens. To get even remotely enough healing from the other mass spells, they need to have all metamagics running, which makes the WAY more expensive than heal or mass heal. So... clearly you don't play a clr/fvs right?

I am actually shocked that anyone likes this change. But I guess some people would like a pile of turds if turbine gave it to them...

[eris2323]

The devs think they are awesome, marked by many reports of them mocking people in game in Lamma-land. Newsflash to Devs: You're not awesome. Start looking at this game like the players are your clients and the game is your product. Instead, you seem to thinkt the players are your pawns and the game is your ponzi scheme.

Yes. Seen this attitude.

Not impressed. We pay your wages, in the end.

[Flavilandile]

I have to disagree. A Heal test on my lvl17 cleric with a Devotion item added only 45.45% of the spell power (LESS than 50%), while the Potency item added exactly 50%.

Why is this?

As I said I don't care about the math, I'm not at 1 HP more or less in healing.

As people here keep saying heal has been nerfed, I asked two different clerics this afternoon. ( ok both are Greeks, but don't hold that against them )

Both said they found overall that they healed better and that all their powers ( including BB and such ) has been increased in efficiency.

I didn't tell them why I asked before they gave an answer, so their answer was unbiased as they are also not regular forum readers. So beside Shade ( whom we all know he is biased ) and me there's also people in the silent 95% majority of the players that find that healing has been improved and empowered by U14.

Maybe people need to rethink their characters ? ( Is it a maxed Wis Cleric or a Maxed Con/Str FvS with Cleric coming third ? Are the healming enhancement lines taken ? and so on. )

My Clerics are maxed Wis ( 18 starting Wis ), then 14 Con, then the rest between STR/CHA depending on what I want to do. They are healing oriented.

Even my underequiped LVL 14 Cleric found it easier and less mana consuming to heal.

Edit :
oh and as I'm not part of it, I can say the following : I'm not part of the Mournland program at this moment, and I haven't been part of the Mournland program in the past. When there's need to bash on Turbine I will bash on Turbine. ( Fix the crashes, I always crash when entering the following explorers : Sand, Red Fen, King Forest, Gianthold, Ataraxia, Vale. I do not crash when entering Underdark, Drow City, Subterrane ( and I have no problem in the giant open space there ), Cerulean Hills, Tangleroot, 3 Barrel Cove, ... )

[Dandonk]

Looking past whether we heal for more or not for one minute, let's turn to:

Why?

Why should some spells (heal and divine light spells it seems) be treated differently than other spells?

Why make a new system that simplifies spell damage calculation... only to make obscure exceptions?

[mystafyi]

Come to think of it sound burst would work ok to if you are built for it.

Soundburst is a level 2 evocation based spell that works very well with a high DC.(stuns mobs immune to command)

I have used it in Epic Hards of all flavors without issue with a 44 evoc DC. Have not tested epic/elites

[Hendrik]

Let me know how well epic elite raid healing goes for you with mass cures, both efficiency-wise and potency-wise. Mass heal isn't the most-used healing spell because it's the only one people like...it's the most-used because it's the most efficient and most potent available. From my play-time on my melee FvS post-expansion, mass cures still don't do enough with metamagics to replace mass heal without having to spam them.

On your MELEE FvS, what Mass Cures do you have slotted??

What is your Healing Enhancement spec like?

What Devotion Item do you have equipped?

[Terebinthia]

Looking past whether we heal for more or not for one minute, let's turn to:

Why?

Why should some spells (heal and divine light spells it seems) be treated differently than other spells?

Why make a new system that simplifies spell damage calculation... only to make obscure exceptions?

This. Basically. My understanding of the spell power pass was it was an attempt at simplification. To randomly apply a different algorithm to a subset of casters makes no sense whatsoever.

I am not really weighing in on group healing because, to be honest, I no longer PUG my divines, and haven't for a long time. One time being treated as someone's henchie too many, I am afraid. I doubt it will have too much effect on my solo capability, but I have been a potency only no clickie toon for a long time now. It just makes doing what I do a bit slower, really. But I do hope this isn't an attempt to force divines to group. It won't, at least for me. If soloing becomes too ineffective, I will move on.

[ShadowFlash]

On your MELEE FvS, what Mass Cures do you have slotted??

What is your Healing Enhancement spec like?

What Devotion Item do you have equipped?

This wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to field an answer anyhow...

As This is a Battle-Cleric, All cure spells are slotted. One step further, I maintain multiple bars with different meta's set on each, and manage no less than 26 hot-keys to handle gear swaps, healing, light, and Melee, all on the fly.

17/2/1 Cleric/Monk/Fighter
Dwarf TWFing D.Axes
Parasitic Breastplate or Infused Chaos robes (both madness slotted arcane lore)
Life Enhancements 4/1/1
Alchemist Crown for Devotion and Radiance (always on)
Fleshshaper's Staff swap-in for aura popping (Major Healing Lore)
Luminous Truth swap-in for triple-stack boss DP (Major Radiance lore)
twin Kama heal/light clickies <---now pretty much useless
Playing with Tharmutugyishness (hate spelling that ) staves, but have yet to find the perfect fit.

The problem is simply put, in order to reach the same level of effectiveness, I now must use a staff for any difficult healing duties, whereas previously, I could continue to melee while doing so.

Those "healing specced" clerics do not have anything to complain about, because they are not trying to contribute anything else, hence gearing isn't an issue. Caster's have basic complaints on stealth-marginalization, but chances are they can gear out of it. Melee Divines are hit worst (especially monk splashed) as next to dedicated healer mode, the rest of their build is irrelevant.

ShadowFlash

Edit: Forgot to add, I also have/had the magewright set for very nice +75% procs to all spells, and I get hit enough to make it usefull, especially for Blade Barrier...this set is also now completely useless, but was 1st on my chopping block pre-U14 anyhow.

[mystafyi]

This is the so called nerf :
after U-14 Potency Items works at half power at best on Healing spells, while Devotion works at full power.

Incorrect sir. Even Devotion items work at 50%(rounded down)

[mystafyi]

Need to have all meta's on?!? Not by a long shot. Just Empower Healing and there are items to reduce that cost as well.

Empower healing works on heal spell? It does not on live.

[ShadowFlash]

Empower healing works on heal spell? It does not on live.

Watchya mean? Empower Heal is the Only Meta that works on Heal.

ShadowFlash