Really, was this divine nerf necessary?

[azrael4h]

It would certainly be nice if in the new enhancement pass they make a move to give all classes (or at least all classes that can expect to melee a decent amount of the time) some healing amp options. Barbarians in particular should get three tiers of amp like monks - it would go a long way towards repairing their "mana-sponge" reputation.

Those options should also be cheaper than they are now - right now, you can get some amazing amp on a human or half-elf monk, but it will cost you a HUGE percentage of your AP (18 out of 80). Reducing cost and increasing availability will both help encourage more players to take it in the first place.

Finally, warforged should have their healing penalties reduced. With the loss of total immunity to disease and poison, they've taken a pretty big hit to features that are supposed to help balance out that -50%, and repair spells lag way too far behind heals in terms of boosters, spell power, side benefits, etc. Give them something like a 25% penalty, or make a Reforged feat available (lose the ability to benefit from repair spells in exchange for no longer having any healing penalty).

I suggested putting at least two tiers of H-amp on Barbarians and Fighters, 3 on Paladins and Rangers (since they're behind the other two considerably in melee dps, their major advantage should at least be viable). I was told "Fool! That would be over-powered!" By Shade among others no less, IIRC. Because it would be insane to allow Melee to have increased healing from the limited healing they can get in-game. And no, I don't give a rat's *** about the few with 3 Paladin past lives and 10%, 20%, and 30% items. This is such a minority of a minority of melees that they are irrelevant. Most don't even bother with the ship buff 10% or the first tier of human h-amp.

[Lord_Darquain]

If this is a small part of some initiative to rebalance healing in it's entirety, then that's
wonderful.

But as it stands, endgame players will still have low AC and high HP for a time. With
smaller heals, this will mean more castings requiring more SP.

This will combine the low availability and high demand of major sp pots already existant
to result in running healers being even more expensive, driving away even more of them.

To help balance this, please consider the following change:

Cleric/FVS/Druid characters with "End Rewards by class" checked receive a BTC
major sp potion in their epic quest/chain end reward lists 100% of the time.

[tasebro]

If this is a small part of some initiative to rebalance healing in it's entirety, then that's
wonderful. ...[/COLOR]

Heals down...check;
hitpoints up...check;
mobs hitting harder....check;

Coincidentally the DDO Store now sells new improved spellpoint/Heal potions... so we come to the market reality that player controlled divine support is now in direct competition with convenient Bypasses sold in the DDO Store, ergo, divine casting gets nerfed to drive up demand, and increase sales.

Nah. That explanation is Too Easy.

[donblas]

I dont care about wrong made up math. What matters is what actually happens in the game. The rest is irrelevant.

The math is often not made up. We take what the devs say is the way the game works. If the release notes indicate a thing we assume the devs are competent and know what they are doing and it's a trivial matter to calculate a predicted effect.

If your in-game experience indicates something other than what the release notes say, then either something has gone wrong with the game, or the devs don't know how their game works.

It's not "made-up" maths to calculate what should happen according to the release notes and wonder why this indicates that healing has been "nerfed". It's entirely possible that your in-game experience shows something other than a "nerf", but then either the game has gone wrong or the release notes have.

[Aashrym]

If this is a small part of some initiative to rebalance healing in it's entirety, then that's
wonderful.

But as it stands, endgame players will still have low AC and high HP for a time. With
smaller heals, this will mean more castings requiring more SP.

This will combine the low availability and high demand of major sp pots already existant
to result in running healers being even more expensive, driving away even more of them.

To help balance this, please consider the following change:

Cleric/FVS/Druid characters with "End Rewards by class" checked receive a BTC
major sp potion in their epic quest/chain end reward lists 100% of the time.

High HP means not dying and needing rebuffed. There's nothing wrong with a bit of HP cushioning.

Those players with low AC have more relevant AC than they used to and they would do well to upgrade it to the new armor types if they haven't already. They do get hit less often and PRR does soak up damage. I take less melee damage now than I did before the update after some armor and equipment swaps. Between the availability of armor that does create miss chance, PRR, actual DR, concealment, incorporeal, and dodge available it's hard not to make some improvements without a lot of effort. The release notes also mentioned less caster damage with the patch.

I don't find healing expensive, no matter how often that's posted on the forums. I don't buy store pots or pots off the AH and I always have some tucked away if needed. I do buy heal scrolls and cure wands, which are easily affordable since around GH or vale questing levels. The only thing adding a major pot would do is give me the option to stock more up and sell them on the AH or trade them when I wanted something so I could use them as currency.

[Lord_Darquain]

The only thing adding a major pot would do is give me the option to stock more up and sell them on the AH or trade them when I wanted something so I could use them as currency.

Sorry, BTC is DDOWiki lingo for Bound to Character.

[Aashrym]

Sorry, BTC is DDOWiki lingo for Bound to Character.

Don't be sorry. I just missed that in your post when I read it. I am more than capable of proving I'm far from perfection.

EDIT: I still don't actually see the need tho. I don't have issues healing and if I do hit a group who obviously is in over their heads I simply don't finance the win and let it fail. No one makes players finance wins; players choose to do that themselves and other players are willing to let them.

[MRMechMan]

Divines are the backbone of pugging.

Pugging is the soul of DDO.

No matter how much short term monetary gain turbine makes from sales of heal pots and mana pots, this does no good for the long-term health of the game.

Heal strength IS down. It is. Recon strength is WAY up. Arcane spell damage is up.

Why nerf only divines? I really don't get their reasoning.

Take the heal spell.

4 teirs enhancements, empower healing, ardor clickie, 102 devotion item

Before: 150x (1+.75ardor+.4enh)x(1.5emp heal)=483

Advertised: 150x (80enh+102devo+20ardor+75 emp heal)=565 (Sign me up!)

Actual: 150x (40enh+51devo+10ardor+37.5emp heal)=358 (oh...)

That is ******. Really, really ******.

If a tank has 30% gloves/20% amp on a TOD ring and 10% ship buff thats 614 for the actual.

Sounds great till you realize most tanks are gonna have 1200-1500hp now.

If you are healing a warforged, its even more painful due to bugged WF healers friend. Even with 30%/20%/10% amp, that heal is going to be 368 if they got healers friend II. If the melee is missing amp then they are f&^#ed in epic elites when mobs/bosses are hitting for 100-300 damage.

Divines now need to slot devotion and NEED empower healing...I am OK with that, as long as we can heal for as much as before. That is not the case, and anyone that says they can are liars. LIARS.

The math doesn't show it and neither does the ingame experience of anyone I have talked to.

Mass heal might be healing for more if you didn't have a way to boost it before, but heal is the main spell divines used to heal in general and nerfing it is frustrating.

What I get even less is the way they did it.

1.Introduce a new system that not many people really understand. Make said system not viewable in any place on the character sheet. Sneakily (Yes, I am sticking with that choice of wording) make the system only work 1/2 as well for a few select spells that all divines use.

2.Say nothing.

3.Players ask if the system is working when heal spell power isn't adding up.

4.Say nothing.

5.In latest release notes, add that you are "fixing" the descriptions of those spells to reflect the nerf.

6.Break WF healers friend in the same update.

7.Add stronger sp pots and heal pots in the store.

8.Add epic destinies that help amp and spellpower.

Spell power is a pretty simple system and on the whole, I like it.

I don't like being decieved. I don't like getting characters nerfed so that turbine can make a quick dime.

[Angelz_Fire]

Maybe the dev's read too much Dr.Seuss books....

So therefore dev1 and dev2 needed to be more cruel and silly.

I already find that my fvs needs 1 mass heal and 1 or 2 full heal ontop of a few other spells at times to heal just one single barbarian. So you get level 25 barbarians with 1500-2000 hp's and that will be about 5-6 healing type spells including 2-3 heal* spells to heal a single ally. That amount, with metamagics (quicken since its a must along with maximize/empower/and probably empower heal to make up for the *loss of spell effectiveness since update) so per person you'll need about 300+ sp's to restore one health bar. Ok, I know with lvl 25 and destiny's a few can get some really high spell point values but really, there is no way you can make it last with these kind of odds.

I can't figure out if this is turbine's mad plan for pay to win with so many things ONLY available in ddo store for the cost of your first born child. The only way I can see this plan work is if all melee carry the new* heal syle pots from the ddo store. *(there is no way cure serious pots for 25 pts a pop will help a 1500 hp barb, seriously something is out of whack)

I suggest some serious testing be done before you end out driving players from the game. Not many healers are willing to spend real money on spell point pots just to play a character they used to enjoy!

[pseudomasochist]

Divines are the backbone of pugging.

Pugging is the soul of DDO.

No matter how much short term monetary gain turbine makes from sales of heal pots and mana pots, this does no good for the long-term health of the game.

Heal strength IS down. It is. Recon strength is WAY up. Arcane spell damage is up.

Why nerf only divines? I really don't get their reasoning.

This is what I have trouble understanding as well. Four-digit melee crits are almost commonplace. Arcane spells have been capable of that and much more even before Update 14. Character power is way up across the board and yet it's the healing classes' ability to keep parties alive that is overpowered? Really?

Others have run all sorts of numbers and formulae demonstrating how the differences in Heal and Heal, Mass now and pre-U14 aren't that significant. Fine, point conceded. SLAs are free or near-free and shouldn't be too powerful. Fine, that makes sense.

What bugs me is that, with the large boosts every class received, the developers target the two spells clerics and favored souls depend on the most to keep raid and epic parties going, and only those two spells, to take down a notch. Why is that?

[rayworks]

Fact: You're wrong.

My results using the same equipment both before and after U14:

Heal was nerfed. I Heal for significantly less using the Heal spell post U14.

Aura is healing for more post U14.

Mass Heal heals for more due to the fact that the max superior potency pre-U14 was for seventh level spells and lower, and spellpower applies to all spell levels.

Heal was most definitely nerfed. Pre update I was hitting in the 280 range without metas and no clickies. Post update I'm seeing around 220 with the same equipment.

[tasebro]

...What bugs me is that, with the large boosts every class received, the developers target the two spells clerics and favored souls depend on the most to keep raid and epic parties going, and only those two spells, to take down a notch. Why is that?

The reason why is that player-controlled divine casting support directly competes with the new improved Bypasses in the DDO Store: the new spellpoint, and Heal potions. They need to create a new market demand for Store bought Bypasses, hence the 50% nerf on divine casting to force that demand.

[karpedieme]

Let me just add this factoid to the fire:

My long time friend and guild cleric can heal my barbarian through epic elite bosses..

With a cure critical wand.

Yes. A wand. A freakin wand, at lvl25 against Cr50+ epic elite bosses.

Thats how hard it is to heal these days.

And you say its nerfed......

You accuse people of taking math calculations and applying them to their self-falsehoods and benefits....

Math aside with your above statement, twisting it to your personal gaming fate you've just relegated yourself in the same category and the "Fancy Fantasy Mathematicians"

Where in hell does this above statement NOT appear to be self-serving and looking at your apparent uber-self in the mirror...

Screenshot or its pure Shame on you Shade!!!!

Sad day for Canadian DDO'ers indeed