Really, was this divine nerf necessary?

[Autolycus]

I read that thread.

As I said. I do not see a single complaint in that thread about the changes to heal. It was massively buffed. The thread just explains the odd way spell power is applying (seems to be 50% effective).

The only complain in that thread was the stealthy change. (some) People like to know the truth.

Turbine responded and gave you the truth. This is your response, to call nerf.

MAybe its best they never tell you the truth, the truth hurts is hard to handle sometimes.

Truthiness facts:

• HEAL GOT BUFFED in U14.
• Description got fixed in U14p1. End of story.
• Stop complaining about getting buffed and trying to call it a nerf when it wasn't.

If you keep crying nerf, turbine WILL nerf you .

Look at the history. Thats how they respond. Thank them for buffing the heal spell and call it a day or be prepared for the real nerf.

Fact: You're wrong.

My results using the same equipment both before and after U14:

Heal was nerfed. I Heal for significantly less using the Heal spell post U14.

Aura is healing for more post U14.

Mass Heal heals for more due to the fact that the max superior potency pre-U14 was for seventh level spells and lower, and spellpower applies to all spell levels.

[dejafu]

Let me just add this factoid to the fire:

My long time friend and guild cleric can heal my barbarian through epic elite bosses..

With a cure critical wand.

Yes. A wand. A freakin wand, at lvl25 against Cr50+ epic elite bosses.

Thats how hard it is to heal these days.

And you say its nerfed......

This is from spell power applying to items. The question is: is this WAI, or a bug that's going to get squished soon?

If the former, then yeah, a LOT of the pressure is going to be taken off of healers, and the hit to healing spell power in general isn't going to sting nearly as much.

If the latter... then don't expect that wand to do the trick for much longer!

[azrael4h]

Let me just add this factoid to the fire:

My long time friend and guild cleric can heal my barbarian through epic elite bosses..

With a cure critical wand.

Yes. A wand. A freakin wand, at lvl25 against Cr50+ epic elite bosses.

Thats how hard it is to heal these days.

And you say its nerfed......

Screenshot?

[Scraap]

I am wondering if that's soon to be fixed. Wands and scrolls have never had it so good that I can recall. I've been packing those cure crit wands everywhere in the meantime. Even the eternal cure minor wand is taking spell amp.

As far as heal / mass heal I would agree with you. They are more than effective and still more efficient than cures / mass cures. I don't expect the big healer doom currently being forecasted on the forums.

Fars it goes, it's kind of nice to see wand/scroll usage as a class feature more useable. Might could use a tone-down, but not an outright removal.

[Shade]

No, you don't. Heal hits for less. There are many threads that have shown the math.

and a lot of players post wrong math all over this forum. It's been happening for years.

Show me a single ingame case. I've not seen any.

My favored soul does more. I posted exact figures in another thread.

I dont care about wrong made up math. What matters is what actually happens in the game. The rest is irrelevant.

[dredre9987]

It's insulting that spellpower fully boosts everything EXCEPT healing and light spells. And the cowardly way it was done speaks volumes about Turbine.

People really need to read....HEAL, HEAL MASS, AND SLA's.....all your cures still get full spell power,

[Razcar]

and a lot of players post wrong math all over this forum. It's been happening for years.

Turbine have just ADMITTED that they have nerfed Heal and spell-like abilities in" U14 - something we hoped was a bug - so what the heck are you yapping about? "Wrong math"? Take a second to stop trolling and read the release notes instead. But thanks for bringing some comic relief to this issue.

[dpadan17]

Turbine have just ADMITTED that they have nerfed Heal and spell-like abilities in" U14 - something we hoped was a bug - so what the heck are you yapping about? "Wrong math"? Take a second to stop trolling and read the release notes instead. But thanks for bringing some comic relief to this issue.

Lol. +1

[LOOON375]

I am not a number cruncher and I am on the very low side when it comes to using computers on the net. So don't ask me to post a screen shot because I don't know how.

With all of this doom and gloom, I went and ran a test on my gimped, first life, and undergeared cleric. Feel free to check my lack of gear on MyDDO and his name is listed in my sig.

I was able to hit myself with a mass heal for 848 points of healing......continuously. I was able to use Heal on myself......continuously for 662 points of healing each time. And know Im not going to sit and and wait to see what I crit for.

If I can heal a party in the new content with those numbers on my super gimped toon, I fail to see an issue.

It's not that they aren't healing enough, it's just that healers aren't healing for enough to appease a certain group of doom and gloomers.

Palemasters were claimed to be a borked class after XP too...........mine seems to work **** fine too.

[Xezrak]

This nerf really doesn't make sense, if anything they should be reducing the sp cost of heals... I get this is how they are trying to increase our use of CC, AC tanks etc, still not the best method IMHO.

[Pape_27]

um..

Given the big ole nerf bat you had swung at fvs, please, do all of us divine players a favor and just shut up.

Thanks.

[Autolycus]

People really need to read....HEAL, HEAL MASS, AND SLA's.....all your cures still get full spell power,

Yeah, you really need to read. I said HEALING in my post that you quoted, not cures.

Also, it has been well documented by players testing that LIGHT spells are also only getting half the boost. No comment from Turbine about whether that is WAI yet, despite repeated requests.

[tasebro]

Yeah, you really need to read. I said HEALING in my post that you quoted, not cures.

Also, it has been well documented by players testing that LIGHT spells are also only getting half the boost. No comment from Turbine about whether that is WAI yet, despite repeated requests.

But its more fun to Admit Nothing; Deny Everything; Make Counteraccusations....so why let something as lame as facts get in the way of good fun?

[Chette]

Basically what's happening is that right now heal and mass heal are far superior to the cures and mass cures in terms of HP restored per SP spent. The devs are trying to close that gap by reducing the power of heal and mass heal.

I don't really agree with their decision. I think a better way to do it would be to increase the usefulness of the cures (particularly the single target cures), but I can understand what they're trying to do. They're aiming for balance amongst the spells, and I think that's a good thing.

Overall, because of the increase in spell power available from high devotion items, you won't see much change in your healing. Your heal may be a bit lower (mine is about 10% lower on my level 20 FvS) but your mass heal will be much higher, and your mass cures are now much higher if you don't use metamagics on them.

I think trying to balance out the power of spells is a good thing, even if it means a slight reduction in the power of my single target heal.

[morticianjohn]

Basically what's happening is that right now heal and mass heal are far superior to the cures and mass cures in terms of HP restored per SP spent. The devs are trying to close that gap by reducing the power of heal and mass heal.

I don't really agree with their decision. I think a better way to do it would be to increase the usefulness of the cures (particularly the single target cures), but I can understand what they're trying to do. They're aiming for balance amongst the spells, and I think that's a good thing.

Overall, because of the increase in spell power available from high devotion items, you won't see much change in your healing. Your heal may be a bit lower (mine is about 10% lower on my level 20 FvS) but your mass heal will be much higher, and your mass cures are now much higher if you don't use metamagics on them.

I think trying to balance out the power of spells is a good thing, even if it means a slight reduction in the power of my single target heal.

You think there are people who develop this great game that decided the best way to bring heal and mass heal in line with other cure spells would be to have them receive only 50% spellpower from items. This is the BEST way to implement this balance to the spell list? I can think of 3 more effective ways of nerfing heal/mass heal without implementing this change. In addition people are complaining that it has affected light damage spells too.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, however, this sounds like a tactic they've used in the past where something is introduced in an update without word of it being implemented. Looks pretty obvious that it's a bug but for whatever reason they accept it as WAI because that is easier than fixing things and it seems like the bug isn't doing too much damage.

I wouldn't subscribe to this theory except there is so much evidence
1.) not in release notes or implemented on the test servers
2.) when reported as a bug it went ignored without a dev post about it for weeks
3.) arbitrary in what items/effects are halved (why not feats, why enhancements and spell power items only?)
4.) easier nerf options availible (you mentioned a buff to cures, I could also mention a straight nerf to the base power of heal/mass heal which are both easier and more effective measures even though they're less deceptive)
5.) motive: long list of bugs and don't want to waste time with something that doesn't seem too awful right now
6.) some other divine spells were affected (players reported light damage) maybe still a bug but is evidence that something is wrong. Arbitrarily selected SLA's...

if it was only a couple of things I would give turbine the benefit of the doubt but with all the evidence I don't see how this was intended from day one even though they say it was. Probably one or two was working on a way to balance heal against the cures and this one slipped through to live. It was probably a goal of theirs to balance these spells eventually so they decided this was ok and did a cover up rather than fixing it and spending some time to do a more legitamate pass on the spells.

[Grosbeak07]

Basically what's happening is that right now heal and mass heal are far superior to the cures and mass cures in terms of HP restored per SP spent. The devs are trying to close that gap by reducing the power of heal and mass heal.

I don't really agree with their decision. I think a better way to do it would be to increase the usefulness of the cures (particularly the single target cures), but I can understand what they're trying to do. They're aiming for balance amongst the spells, and I think that's a good thing.

Overall, because of the increase in spell power available from high devotion items, you won't see much change in your healing. Your heal may be a bit lower (mine is about 10% lower on my level 20 FvS) but your mass heal will be much higher, and your mass cures are now much higher if you don't use metamagics on them.

I think trying to balance out the power of spells is a good thing, even if it means a slight reduction in the power of my single target heal.

I'd be fine with this kind of thinking IF healing amp becomes easier to obtain. Hitting a 1200 pt barbarian for 300 pts, while a mob is doing about the same if not more damage in the same span isn't fun. Too few characters invest heavily into healing amp, unless they are pure tanks, up until now the gains to healing amp wasn't worth the loss of dps.

Like many have said, if this remains unchanged, my cleric won't ever pug again. I've already converted my FVS to be a melee solo character, I can keep myself alive.. the rest of the group is in trouble.

[DarkForte]

- Heal scales down;
- Hit points scale up;
- Healing amp stays the same;

Am I the only one seeing a problem here?

[morticianjohn]

- Heal scales down;
- Hit points scale up;
- Healing amp stays the same;

Am I the only one seeing a problem here?

As someone pointed out to me in a different thread: The problem is more about the enemy damage getting boosted and less about the player HP getting a boost (although the two have gone hand in hand unlike healing which is left behind as you've noticed)

[dejafu]

I'd be fine with this kind of thinking IF healing amp becomes easier to obtain. Hitting a 1200 pt barbarian for 300 pts, while a mob is doing about the same if not more damage in the same span isn't fun. Too few characters invest heavily into healing amp, unless they are pure tanks, up until now the gains to healing amp wasn't worth the loss of dps.

Like many have said, if this remains unchanged, my cleric won't ever pug again. I've already converted my FVS to be a melee solo character, I can keep myself alive.. the rest of the group is in trouble.

It would certainly be nice if in the new enhancement pass they make a move to give all classes (or at least all classes that can expect to melee a decent amount of the time) some healing amp options. Barbarians in particular should get three tiers of amp like monks - it would go a long way towards repairing their "mana-sponge" reputation.

Those options should also be cheaper than they are now - right now, you can get some amazing amp on a human or half-elf monk, but it will cost you a HUGE percentage of your AP (18 out of 80). Reducing cost and increasing availability will both help encourage more players to take it in the first place.

Finally, warforged should have their healing penalties reduced. With the loss of total immunity to disease and poison, they've taken a pretty big hit to features that are supposed to help balance out that -50%, and repair spells lag way too far behind heals in terms of boosters, spell power, side benefits, etc. Give them something like a 25% penalty, or make a Reforged feat available (lose the ability to benefit from repair spells in exchange for no longer having any healing penalty).

[justagame]

and a lot of players post wrong math all over this forum. It's been happening for years.

Show me a single ingame case. I've not seen any.

My favored soul does more. I posted exact figures in another thread.

I dont care about wrong made up math. What matters is what actually happens in the game. The rest is irrelevant.

I'm good enough at math for simple spellpower addition, and I've posted my results on other threads with specific numbers, immediately after the update. (i.e., not after the 14.1 release notes, this was evident right away).