So, nerfed healing is WAI?

[DeafeningWhisper]

However what is far more common is the evoker which is also heal capable:

life magic 4
smiting 4
crit positive 1 to add to base chance
crit positive 1 to add multiplier
wand and scroll mastery 3
smiting crit 1 to add to base chance
smiting crit 1 to add multiplier
remaining few enhancement points for wisdom/hp enhancements

Wisdom Based for dc's, Con second, Charisma tertiary

These are the evokers that heal quests and raids. The con based build you describe in your post is designed for solo dot tanking.

That build is pretty much what I have on my cleric.

Funny how people say it's a fine move since it nerfs the OP FvS but forget clerics are also affected and no one ever called a cleric "OP".

[tasebro]

Continuing to fight with each other will get this thread closed. Please follow the forum guidelines. Thanks.

Reverse the 50% nerf on divine casting, and Problem Solved, no more Continuing to fight with each other.

Then we can all stop wasting time posting pointless gripes on these forums; I can unpark my divines, and get back to the adventuring, buying the xpack, giving turbine money instead of *not* giving turbine money....

My bud says he finds the xpack to be really good. I believe him. I would kinda like to see it. But I will not spend any real money on the xpack [or for that matter any other turbine product] unless this nerf is reversed, full access to casting and SLAs restored *with prejudice*.
Thanks.

[Inferno346]

The most common are evocation focused for blade barrier and implosion. All level ups into con, 2 tiers of life magic maximum and no spec into crit chance or crit multiplier for heals.

With heal amp gear on:

150 regular heal
300 after maximize
450 after empower
495 10% amp
594 20% amp
772 30% amp

Note this calculation has absolutely no life magic whatsoever. It was_not_needed in order to solo, which is what alot of these CON builds were created for. It was also not needed to group heal raids. Only the tank really needed huge heals, and any tank worth their salt had heal amp gear in the high end game.

Guaranteed 772 point single target heal on the tank in a raid. If they needed to mass heal the party it was a minimum 450 point heal for anyone who had no amp whatsoever.

Heal amp frees up alot of AP to be used on maxing out damage.

Wow. No.

Here are the two main ways people build non-melee solo-focused favored souls:

1. Evoker, human
-This is built for fast trash killing and good worth in speed runs (although nowhere close to a sorc most of the time) combined with very good survivability.
-Max wisdom, 16-18 in con.
-10/20/30/20/10 healing amp (I won't break that down since you seem to already have a handle on it)
-CLW capstone!!
-4 ranks into life magic. Crits are mostly irrelevant. Why do you put stuff into life magic??? Because you can't survive on ONLY heal when soloing difficult content. You need to rotate through CLW capstone, Heal, and possibly CSW/CCW in some cases.

2. Con-based, human or helf
-This is built to survive through disintegrates and stuns and whatnot in the most difficult to solo content. Speed run viability is thrown out the window.
-Max con.
-10/20/30/20/20/10 healing amp
-CLW capstone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-4 ranks into life magic. You get the idea.

Maximize does not work on heal. Level-ups in con do not equal a good implosion. Um.

The people who don't put stuff into life magic are running melee builds, or optimizing for speed runs. Life magic is very powerful for soloing.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Well, at least the thread got SOME attention, even if it was negative.

So, Brave Cordovan, any chance someone could shed the tiniest modicum of light on to WHY divines only get 50% of the spellpower everyone else does?

Inquiring minds would LOVE to know. Please.

The dude is brave, not suicidal.

[danotmano1998]

What people are REALLY mad about that they are not saying: It was feasible to overgear and then underenhance in the past where it is not so now if they want to heal the current endgame. This doesnt get brought up as much because it then turns into griping about AP that could have been spent elsewhere, with the people who disagree saying hey, if you want to heal well, you will allocate points to it.

Please, you can't be serious here. You just can't be.

The dude is brave, not suicidal.

ROFL

[taurean430]

The FvS gets an increase based off of it's PrC that affects light spells/untyped damage/etc. Even so, this only equated to 60% of what other casting class categories received if I am not mistaken. The Cleric does not. Nor does the Cleric have a way to gain back significantly what has been taken. The enhancement lines are either to expensive overall. Or, do not even address the damage type without splashing and losing capstone. One would literally have to abandon being heal capable in the new content in order to return to less than what one was before in terms of spell damage.

[trespasser]

Originally Posted by Chai
The most common are evocation focused for blade barrier and implosion. All level ups into con, 2 tiers of life magic maximum and no spec into crit chance or crit multiplier for heals.

With heal amp gear on:

150 regular heal
300 after maximize
450 after empower
495 10% amp
594 20% amp
772 30% amp

Note this calculation has absolutely no life magic whatsoever. It was_not_needed in order to solo, which is what alot of these CON builds were created for. It was also not needed to group heal raids. Only the tank really needed huge heals, and any tank worth their salt had heal amp gear in the high end game.

Guaranteed 772 point single target heal on the tank in a raid. If they needed to mass heal the party it was a minimum 450 point heal for anyone who had no amp whatsoever.

Heal amp frees up alot of AP to be used on maxing out damage.

I can't find that post , just the quotes. The poster probably deleted it.

Chai's post have degraded from uninformative and skewed to straight out lying.

Maximize and Empower do not effect heal and mass heal. Something that a person giving an opinion in a thread about healing should know. Most fvs/clerics do not put level ups in constitution, and certainly no evokers do. Math does not work the way Chai apparently think it does.

That is all, I just couldn't pass on such an obvious lie.

[ShadowFlash]

The FvS gets an increase based off of it's PrC that affects light spells/untyped damage/etc. Even so, this only equated to 60% of what other casting class categories received if I am not mistaken. The Cleric does not. Nor does the Cleric have a way to gain back significantly what has been taken. The enhancement lines are either to expensive overall. Or, do not even address the damage type without splashing and losing capstone. One would literally have to abandon being heal capable in the new content in order to return to less than what one was before in terms of spell damage.

Not exactly accurate. The FvS PrE does not provide a static boost to light spells. It does provide the shield of condemnation de-buff guard that can be stacked up to 50% vulnerability on being hit. When I did my original DP math, community concensus was a rough figure of 20-30% to be used, as even in boss fights, maintaining the full 5 tier stack is not garunteed.

Cleric's recieve via RS PrE additional SP for Empower heal now apparently (undocumented AFAIK) that originally took the feat from +50% to +75%. It "seems" now that empower heal auto-grants +75SP, that RS cleric recieve +100 instead, making it on par with maximize for far less cost. Cleric's are the ones actually that recieve a static boost to heal, aligned and light via +2 caster levels on these types. This is largely irrelevant on light spells other than splashed builds, as max CL is capped at 20.

ShadowFlash

[Chai]

I can't find that post , just the quotes. The poster probably deleted it.

Chai's post have degraded from uninformative and skewed to straight out lying.

Maximize and Empower do not effect heal and mass heal. Something that a person giving an opinion in a thread about healing should know. Most fvs/clerics do not put level ups in constitution, and certainly no evokers do. Math does not work the way Chai apparently think it does.

That is all, I just couldn't pass on such an obvious lie.

Its not a lie actually, you will see that I forgot two things, one of which is that maximize doesnt affect heal spells, but the other is a devotion item which I forgot to add in.

150 heal
225 empower heal
337 devotion 50%
404 2 tiers of life magic.
444 10% amp
532 20% amp
691 30% amp
(actually comes to 694 if you leave the decimal in and just multiply rather than round down each time)

Most of the solo raid build FvS up til now had ~700 hp at the top end. No crits, guaranteed full self heal unless dead.

Now go ahead and tell me they dont take empower heal and dont have heal amp gear. The endgamers do. The people who used their AP for maxing out damage do. The people STILL posting that they are soloing epic elite content in the accomplishment forums do. If they do not, they are healing themselves when they get to 50% HP, for even less mana.

[Thrudh]

Reverse the 50% nerf on divine casting, and Problem Solved, no more Continuing to fight with each other.

Then we can all stop wasting time posting pointless gripes on these forums; I can unpark my divines, and get back to the adventuring, buying the xpack, giving turbine money instead of *not* giving turbine money....

My bud says he finds the xpack to be really good. I believe him. I would kinda like to see it. But I will not spend any real money on the xpack [or for that matter any other turbine product] unless this nerf is reversed, full access to casting and SLAs restored *with prejudice*.
Thanks.

LOL.

Look, we heal for less... but so what? We still heal for "enough", plus my FvS has like 600 more SP. Plus cure spells work better. Plus every character in epics has access to easy 30% heal amp. I'm not sure I'd call this a "nerf"

I can still heal myself and the party just fine... And I'm having a blast in the new content... sorry you're missing it.

[justagame]

Yeah i forgot about that, which is why I deleted the post which doesnt matter in the long run, because its still how people are building their raid soloing builds. Very little healing AP used to spend more on damage.

It does matter. You used some obscure build used by at most a tiny fraction of the percentage of the playing population, used for one purpose -- and held that out as the reason why everyday players were upset at the nerf? That's not exactly an honest argument. It matters because it's changed the subject from one in which folks are trying to convey an honest gripe, into one in which people have to defend against absurd accusations about build and playstyle.

You don't really believe that most divine characters, both everyday ones and even advanced ones, are being built ignoring the lifemagic AP line and putting level-ups into CON, do you?

[justagame]

LOL.

Look, we heal for less... but so what? We still heal for "enough", plus my FvS has like 600 more SP. Plus cure spells work better. Plus every character in epics has access to easy 30% heal amp. I'm not sure I'd call this a "nerf"

I can still heal myself and the party just fine... And I'm having a blast in the new content... sorry you're missing it.

If we cut Sorceror damage by 30% tomorrow across the board, they would still kill "just fine". They could still play the game, and blow stuff up. Does that mean we should arbitrarily do it? Does that mean if folks playing sorcs complained, those objections would be illegitimate?

[ShadowFlash]

Yeah i forgot about that, which is why I deleted the post which doesnt matter in the long run, because its still how people are building their raid soloing builds. Very little healing AP used to spend more on damage.

And what does a high end specifically built Raid SOLO build have anything to do with general PuG healing, and more importantly, the still undocumented light "nerf"? If a build was designed to solo raids, of course full party healing specs can be ignored...enough healing for you, and you alone is all that matters...common sense. I don't understand why you keep repeating this example when referring to the general masses.

And FYI on gear and enhancements...
4/1/1 Life
4/3/3 Smite
Alchemist Crown always on
TWFing D.axes the rest of the time.
Specced and geared appropriately for level 20, but now, in order to "come close" to equal pre-u14 numbers I MUST wield a staff...and not just one...hot-swapping constantly between them, only to "come close" to equal. In otherwords...there goes melee/heal/light simultaneouslly, even though I have the correct gear and enhancements

ShadowFlash

[Chai]

It does matter. You used some obscure build used by at most a tiny fraction of the percentage of the playing population, used for one purpose -- and held that out as the reason why everyday players were upset at the nerf? That's not exactly an honest argument. It matters because it's changed the subject from one in which folks are trying to convey an honest gripe, into one in which people have to defend against absurd accusations about build and playstyle.

You don't really believe that most divine characters, both everyday ones and even advanced ones, are being built ignoring the lifemagic AP line and putting level-ups into CON, do you?

This is not some obscure build - this is a regularly built toon, and quite alot of accomplishments have been posted on the accomplishment forum by players of that very build.

As far as changing the subject, I was challenged to post one build, and I posted THE build that is making a mockery of alot of epic elite content currently.

[Chai]

And what does a high end specifically built Raid SOLO build have anything to do with general PuG healing, and more importantly, the still undocumented light "nerf"? If a build was designed to solo raids, of course full party healing specs can be ignored...enough healing for you, and you alone is all that matters...common sense. I don't understand why you keep repeating this example when referring to the general masses.

And FYI on gear and enhancements...
4/1/1 Life
4/3/3 Smite
Alchemist Crown always on
TWFing D.axes the rest of the time.
Specced and geared appropriately for level 20, but now, in order to "come close" to equal pre-u14 numbers I MUST wield a staff...and not just one...hot-swapping constantly between them, only to "come close" to equal. In otherwords...there goes melee/heal/light simultaneouslly, even though I have the correct gear and enhancements

ShadowFlash

It puts people into the dilema of heal/DOT, or melee/DOT - If and only if the argument is that they absolutely MUST be as effective as they used to be. With destinies you will be far more effective at either healing, melee, or DOT, whichever you choose. Some destinies add to 2 of the 3.

Its a nerf to one stat, but its not a net nerf to healing in general considering ALL of the changes.

[smatt]

Ahh, good to see the heros of DDO have shown up

[WruntJunior]

This is not some obscure build - this is a regularly built toon, and quite alot of accomplishments have been posted on the accomplishment forum by players of that very build.

As far as changing the subject, I was challenged to post one build, and I posted THE build that is making a mockery of alot of epic elite content currently.

You were challenged to post one build that didn't maximize the life magic line. You have yet to do so.

[Chai]

You were challenged to post one build that didn't maximize the life magic line. You have yet to do so.

I used tier 1 and 2 life magic AP in my calc. We are not relegated to builds posted on the forums. I know what the people posting the high end accomplishments are using and thats what I showed you the calc for.

I also have yet to see the breakdown I requested for why this is a NET nerf overall. There is only one reason no one hasnt been linked yet. Because someone already showed their work on how this is NOT a net nerf.

[danotmano1998]

Stop your grinnin and drop your linen, we have official Dev comment upcoming..

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=156

[WruntJunior]

I used tier 1 and 2 life magic AP in my calc. We are not relegated to builds posted on the forums. I know what the people posting the high end accomplishments are using and thats what I showed you the calc for.

I also have yet to see the breakdown I requested for why this is a NET nerf overall. There is only one reason no one hasnt been linked yet. Because someone already showed their work on how this is NOT a net nerf.

You proved in the post you deleted that you didn't know what you were talking about with that build...and I'm not just talking about empower and maximize not working for heal. That build relies heavily on the clw capstone, which essentially requires you to maximize the amount that it heals.

Nice try, but no....you have yet to find me the build. Anecdotal evidence of "someone I know uses that build, I swear!" doesn't work.