So, nerfed healing is WAI?

[Siro]

I wish we would hear something. Any response.

All we are asking for is a confirmed reason for why the nerf. Is that too much to ask?

I'd like to know this too. Although if they're planning something Awesome like domains and/or a massive expansion of the divine spell list, I'd be satisfied with a "trust us, it'll be cool".

[Auralana7214]

I'd like to know this too. Although if they're planning something Awesome like domains and/or a massive expansion of the divine spell list, I'd be satisfied with a "trust us, it'll be cool".

I would TOTALLY be fine with that!

[Chai]

Then you haven't been paying attention. There were plenty of threads pointing out the impact, with specific numbers and conditions laid out, right after u14 hit, and obviously well BEFORE the u14.1 release notes.

Show me.

I have been paying attention. Nothing of the sort exists. Ive seen specific numbers and conditions laid out by the devs. None from players for this specific issue.

[Chai]

Well my problem with the nerf is simple enough: why are divines spells the only ones not applying the full spell power formula? They didn't say a word about this been WAI when people asked if this was bug, Hell for all I know Turbine had a good reason for doing so, but I guess we'll never know...

Its been in the release notes for a while now.

As for why we think it's bad, BB hits for less seen how with the new formula most of a spell's damage comes from enhancement lines and divines have no force line, and smitting line costs a lot more then an arcane damage line and the return is smaller as well.

This is not true with the right gear. The right gear post U14 is not the same gear from pre U14.

Now heal/mass heal are in the same boat, meaning grabbing every healing enhancement is necessary as well as having a devotion item and maybe and implement to heal the new inflated hp of toons.

Add that to the fact the spell power formula only adds 50% to light spells and we see why divines think Turbine wants to make them all into healbots.

Again, not the case with the right gear. Also, alot of the players are as responsible if not more responsible than the devs for creating the high HP mess, by advocating higher HP toons as always better in the first place.

What people used to do is overgear for the quests they ran. Most high end stuff pre U14 did not put the same damage numbers out as the new stuff does.

What people are REALLY mad about that they are not saying: It was feasible to overgear and then underenhance in the past where it is not so now if they want to heal the current endgame. This doesnt get brought up as much because it then turns into griping about AP that could have been spent elsewhere, with the people who disagree saying hey, if you want to heal well, you will allocate points to it.

The only thing Turbine did incorrectly here is gave people a taste of power by overpowering heals in the first place, leaving it that way for a long period of time, then scaled it back. They should not have given it in the first palce. Then their expectation would have been realized by players, that if you want to heal well, you spec for it, like anything else.

People have been building divines that can cook anything they encounter, specced minimally for healing with amp to cover the gap, then rotating mass empowered heals to top people off every cooldown in raids. Now the D&D dilema kicks in - as they will have to spec in order to perform well, where they did not have to fully do so before.

[dungeonD123]

A dev mentioned a bit ago that they don't like needing things. Any nerf has a peer evaluation and has to justified.

If that is truly the case, Turbine should already have its reasons for the change to divine Spell Power and thFoM.
Please be so kind as to share your reasoning with us.

As it stands now, its seems like rather than fix a bug, you're labeling it as WAI.

Also, I respectfully request that the spell description actually state What/How Much the spell power is reduced. Ie Enhancement s and equipment will only provide 50% SP.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Its been in the release notes for a while now.

Really? So what was the reason? Also the change hit with MoTU, which is before the notes where released.

This is not true with the right gear. The right gear post U14 is not the same gear from pre U14.

Yeah the 3 spell power quarterstaves, nothing says "right gear" like dumping your shield and one hander or thf weapon to fit a wizard casting item. No pigeonholing at all, nope.

Again, not the case with the right gear. Also, alot of the players are as responsible if not more responsible than the devs for creating the high HP mess, by advocating higher HP toons as always better in the first place.

So with the right gear you don't need the right gear to heal? LOL, yeah not like Turbine has increased difficulty by making things hit harder every other update...

What people are REALLY mad about that they are not saying: It was feasible to overgear and then underenhance in the past where it is not so now if they want to heal the current endgame. This doesnt get brought up as much because it then turns into griping about AP that could have been spent elsewhere, with the people who disagree saying hey, if you want to heal well, you will allocate points to it.

The only thing Turbine did incorrectly here is gave people a taste of power by overpowering heals in the first place, leaving it that way for a long period of time, then scaled it back. They should not have given it in the first palce. Then their expectation would have been realized by players, that if you want to heal well, you spec for it, like anything else.

People have been building divines that can cook anything they encounter, specced minimally for healing with amp to cover the gap, then rotating mass empowered heals to top people off every cooldown in raids. Now the D&D dilema kicks in - as they will have to spec in order to perform well, where they did not have to fully do so before.

So be a healbot then? I've always specced for healing and damage, why did I need a nerf to both? So I have to abandon one for the other? Do you consider that normal?

What we are a mad about and ARE saying is that healing is the hardest, less rewarding, after thought for melees job in a party and Turbine randomly decided to make it harder "just because".

[Forzah]

Obviously, that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

I'm still puzzled why he felt so attacked by my post, but he doesn't want to explain it either.

[justagame]

Its been in the release notes for a while now.



This is not true with the right gear. The right gear post U14 is not the same gear from pre U14.



Again, not the case with the right gear. Also, alot of the players are as responsible if not more responsible than the devs for creating the high HP mess, by advocating higher HP toons as always better in the first place.

What people used to do is overgear for the quests they ran. Most high end stuff pre U14 did not put the same damage numbers out as the new stuff does.

What people are REALLY mad about that they are not saying: It was feasible to overgear and then underenhance in the past where it is not so now if they want to heal the current endgame. This doesnt get brought up as much because it then turns into griping about AP that could have been spent elsewhere, with the people who disagree saying hey, if you want to heal well, you will allocate points to it.

The only thing Turbine did incorrectly here is gave people a taste of power by overpowering heals in the first place, leaving it that way for a long period of time, then scaled it back. They should not have given it in the first palce. Then their expectation would have been realized by players, that if you want to heal well, you spec for it, like anything else.

People have been building divines that can cook anything they encounter, specced minimally for healing with amp to cover the gap, then rotating mass empowered heals to top people off every cooldown in raids. Now the D&D dilema kicks in - as they will have to spec in order to perform well, where they did not have to fully do so before.

Ok, now you're just making stuff up. Not I, nor any other divine I know of, fails to take the full line of life magic enhancements. I don't know any self respecting FVS/cleric who fails to do so, even melee builds. Just where do you get this stuff from all of the posts about this? This alleged laziness about maxing out healing AP lines, and making up for it with gear? You're just making up straw man cases to bash people who have legitimate complaints.

And if this is about being overpowered, I ask you -- why did sorcs get a significant boost? You could right now make an arbitrary 20% cut to ALL sorc damage, and they would still kill just fine. Does that make them lazy, or poor players, for not wanting such a targeted cut?

If you want to make an argument, make an informed argument. Dont make stuff up about people's builds, when it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about in that regard.

[azrael4h]

Oddly enough in Beta almost every thread had a dev response and sometimes full conversations going on.

Some were very productive others not so much.

The one about Turbine's vision of divines didn't help in anyway, shape or form thou...

Well, as I said before, I sent a PM to Eladrin to try and get some response. It was ignored, as have all these threads and complaints.

So as of now, the issue is officially being ignored. Enjoy being a healbot. Or, for all but the apologists, enjoy playing a Sorcerer or Wizard.

[WruntJunior]

Ok, now you're just making stuff up. Not I, nor any other divine I know of, fails to take the full line of life magic enhancements. I don't know any self respecting FVS/cleric who fails to do so, even melee builds. Just where do you get this stuff from all of the posts about this? This alleged laziness about maxing out healing AP lines, and making up for it with gear? You're just making up straw man cases to bash people who have legitimate complaints.

And if this is about being overpowered, I ask you -- why did sorcs get a significant boost? You could right now make an arbitrary 20% cut to ALL sorc damage, and they would still kill just fine. Does that make them lazy, or poor players, for not wanting such a targeted cut?

If you want to make an argument, make an informed argument. Dont make stuff up about people's builds, when it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about in that regard.

I have to agree here...the only divines that don't always max their healing lines are paladins and rangers...and even then, they're generally stupid for not doing so. People don't max out crit lines for heals...but that's for a common sense reason: crit heals are unreliable, and healing is something that generally has to be done in a reliable, consistent way.

[Chai]

Really? So what was the reason? Also the change hit with MoTU, which is before the notes where released.

We are now over two weeks out from release. We're still harping on something not being in the release notes until shortly after release?

Yeah the 3 spell power quarterstaves, nothing says "right gear" like dumping your shield and one hander or thf weapon to fit a wizard casting item. No pigeonholing at all, nope.

Nerp, there are scepters as well. There are also weapons. No pigeonholing indeed.

So with the right gear you don't need the right gear to heal? LOL, yeah not like Turbine has increased difficulty by making things hit harder every other update...

And people still beat that content just fine. As a matter of fact, there are now multiple FvS solo epic elite first, second, and third chain accomplishments posted.

So be a healbot then? I've always specced for healing and damage, why did I need a nerf to both? So I have to abandon one for the other? Do you consider that normal?

No, you do not need to abandon one for the other. 99% of the players are getting along just fine. Its a vocal minority of forumites that are saying builds are now gimped into having to choose between one or the other.

What we are a mad about and ARE saying is that healing is the hardest, less rewarding, after thought for melees job in a party and Turbine randomly decided to make it harder "just because".

Its not really harder at all. Its less convenient to have to slot multiple items to be effective, but after thats done, the actual difficulty of healing quests hasnt increased at all, with the right gear.

[taurean430]

Ok, now you're just making stuff up. Not I, nor any other divine I know of, fails to take the full line of life magic enhancements. I don't know any self respecting FVS/cleric who fails to do so, even melee builds. Just where do you get this stuff from all of the posts about this? This alleged laziness about maxing out healing AP lines, and making up for it with gear? You're just making up straw man cases to bash people who have legitimate complaints.

And if this is about being overpowered, I ask you -- why did sorcs get a significant boost? You could right now make an arbitrary 20% cut to ALL sorc damage, and they would still kill just fine. Does that make them lazy, or poor players, for not wanting such a targeted cut?

If you want to make an argument, make an informed argument. Dont make stuff up about people's builds, when it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about in that regard.

This response is right on target.

I do not believe he wants to discuss the matter at hand. I've taken notice that his primary form of participation lies in accusing the player or group of players themselves of being inadequate, lazy, subpar, etc... It's something of a diversion to the topic at hand to even bother to address it.

[DeafeningWhisper]

This response is right on target.

I do not believe he wants to discuss the matter at hand. I've taken notice that his primary form of participation lies in accusing the player or group of players themselves of being inadequate, lazy, subpar, etc... It's something of a diversion to the topic at hand to even bother to address it.

Yeah, I just noticed the same after he answered my post right above yours, I guess I'll stop trying to have a discussion with him.

[taurean430]

Incidentally, another aspect of this that came into question lies with the enhancements themselves reportedly giving half value. I'll have to dig around a little when I have the time and add that observation by another player into this post.

[Cordovan]

Continuing to fight with each other will get this thread closed. Please follow the forum guidelines. Thanks.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Continuing to fight with each other will get this thread closed. Please follow the forum guidelines. Thanks.

Yay a dev response! Wait...

[Auralana7214]

Yay a dev response! Wait...

lol

[danotmano1998]

Well, at least the thread got SOME attention, even if it was negative.

So, Brave Cordovan, any chance someone could shed the tiniest modicum of light on to WHY divines only get 50% of the spellpower everyone else does?

Inquiring minds would LOVE to know. Please.

[MRMechMan]

Show me.

I have been paying attention. Nothing of the sort exists. Ive seen specific numbers and conditions laid out by the devs. None from players for this specific issue.

Troll! !!!1!

[taurean430]

The most common are evocation focused for blade barrier and implosion. All level ups into con, 2 tiers of life magic maximum and no spec into crit chance or crit multiplier for heals.

With heal amp gear on:

150 regular heal
300 after maximize
450 after empower
495 10% amp
594 20% amp
772 30% amp

Note this calculation has absolutely no life magic whatsoever. It was_not_needed in order to solo, which is what alot of these CON builds were created for. It was also not needed to group heal raids. Only the tank really needed huge heals, and any tank worth their salt had heal amp gear in the high end game.

Guaranteed 772 point single target heal on the tank in a raid. If they needed to mass heal the party it was a minimum 450 point heal for anyone who had no amp whatsoever.

Heal amp frees up alot of AP to be used on maxing out damage.

However what is far more common is the evoker which is also heal capable:

life magic 4
smiting 4
crit positive 1 to add to base chance
crit positive 1 to add multiplier
wand and scroll mastery 3
smiting crit 1 to add to base chance
smiting crit 1 to add multiplier
remaining few enhancement points for wisdom/hp enhancements

Wisdom Based for dc's, Con second, Charisma tertiary

These are the evokers that heal quests and raids. The con based build you describe in your post is designed for solo dot tanking. Or perhaps simply being a dot tank. They are not common.

With an new level cap of 25, it is in fact reasonable to expect an increase in casting ability. Not a reduction centered in giving half value on enhancements and spell power. And certainly not a cease in advancement of caster levels for the spells that should be affected by them.