So, nerfed healing is WAI?

[Impaqt]

Might as well take away Blade barrier and Divine Punishment while your at it.

[Autolycus]

Might as well take away Blade barrier and Divine Punishment while your at it.

Yeah, with the nerfs they've made being a divine caster inefficient and impractical. I'm considering swapping my 5 meta magic feats for melee feats and becoming a full blown, self healing only Battle Cleric.

[pseudomasochist]

Pretty much everything that needed to be said has been said so I just want to add my voice to this. The change to Heal and Heal, Mass is a terrible idea. Healers' jobs don't need to be more difficult and stressful.

And yes, clarification on the FoM nerf would be nice.

[barryman5000]

Yeah, with the nerfs they've made being a divine caster inefficient and impractical. I'm considering swapping my 5 meta magic feats for melee feats and becoming a full blown, self healing only Battle Cleric.

Wow I wanted to +1 you twice today. You are on a roll.

[Dolphious]

So is it just positive energy healing that's getting hit? If so, very strange. I could actually understand if they decide to nerf healing all around (repair, negative energy, scrolls, etc) to force people to invest in real defenses rather than just healing through everything, but just positive energy is weird and seems sloppy.

Net another example why it would be great if the devs would explain *why* they are changing something, I think it would help a lot with the "huh? what? why?!!" responses where crazy conspiracy theories take the play of whatever reasoning the devs had.

[Exanimus]

There was a reason for the nerf...that a few have hit on. less heals per sp spent = more sp spent = (in whomever said this was a good ideas mind) potential for more store sp pots to be bought, also, more hp pots as well for the classes that have to rely on external heals having nothing of their own except pots.

money, if you can't find the logic of something look to where someone makes money doing the way they've done it. all in all though it's a fail, seen this same exact thing in a few other mmo's, relatively smaller player base, company wants more cash flow from the players they have (instead of fixing bugs, updating things etc, to possibly gain new players and/or get players back they've lost) they'll attempt to squeeze every last penny out of what they have.

and the most common methods are:
increase mob damage: which to make things less likely of a wipe, various store bought buffs, heal and mana(sp) pots are available.
nerf healer classes: has the same effect as above, and usually the 2 are combined. with the added bonus of healers potentially buying even more mana(sp) pots
add various status debuffs that are difficult to cleanse...but hey, the store has an item for that.

these are done by amateurs, experienced mmo devs/designers know better. all they have to do is look into other mmo (and have) to see what was succesful and what was not. then you have the stupidly stubborn that thinks their ideas are unique, sure fire, and have never been done before. ah the arrogance of having a degree or so called 'experience' in some portion of an industry totally unrelated to online games. but seems 'close enough' to count.

so there were reasons...just not logical ones for any player. not logical for any experienced dev team....but wholly logical to the idiot who made them.

more than just mmo'ers play in a fantasy world eh?

[Farayon]

What a curious coincidence that we can now buy better cure and SP pots in the DDO store...

[GermanicusMaximus]

I dont know what to say....

PrE.. Not Complete....

Epic Destiny.. Not there.....

Healing power.. Chopped in half....

this is just plain depressing now. I dont know if I will ever pug a divine again... Group with guildies and friends and solo Scaled content... Thats what my clerics are good for now,.....

I can understand the sentiment of still wanting to run with guidies and friends, but from a practical perspective simply avoiding PUGs is unlikely to get the job done.

You listed some pretty substantial reasons why any divine caster should simply be parked or in solo only mode. If you really want to effect some change here, its time to face facts on what really needs to be done. The devs have spoken on what they want to do, and collectively, the choice is up to us whether we want to allow this to stand.

Divine casters are the most team orientated players in this game. All the nerfs we have received in this update is a clear indication of how much Turbine values team play in this game.

When Turbine started to talk about nerfs to Wail, one of the complaint threads ran to about 1400 posts, and the other was over 700 posts. Those threads helped shape what happened to Wail.

Divine casters find ourselves in this position simply because we are too passive to make an effective stand. The last time we DID make a stand was last year when out of the blue the devs gave us a new party UI that made it a real PITA to heal a group. A large number of divines were simply parked, and the devs grudgingly made changes not because they wanted to, but because they felt forced to.

A few minor complaints in the forums that go away after a few days will be totally ineffective in reversing any of these changes. What will be effective are lengthy threads that complain about the complete absence of divine casters from any groups.

Divine casters need to decide whether they are content to whine, or whether they really want to accomplish something. We, as a group, are in a position to leverage change more than any other group of players in the game. Its time for all of us to either put up or shut up.

[Faent]

Wow. Just wow. What in the world are the DEVs thinking? This change is THE STUPID. And the disingenuous manner in which Turbine is trying to sneak it into the game is just disgusting. My divine just got shelved. When the medicore melees Turbine just catered to with the last update start leaving the game in droves because nobody will ever HJEAL them, maybe Turbine will realize they cost themselves a ton of money with this moronic change. Hey you Turbine folks? Guess what? They're not going to hit your store up to buy pots in order to get through a raid. They're going to leave the game and take their money elsewhere because nobody will be willing to HJEAL them.

[tasebro]

...Divine casters .. as a group, are in a position to leverage change more than any other group of players in the game. Its time for all of us to either put up or shut up.

You are right.
A house divided cannot stand.
But I dont see turbine backing down from this one tho, one key problem is that even if 75% of the player base insisted on this nerf being reversed asap, there would still be 25% who are okay with the nerf [or even *like* that divine casters got nerfed]; reversing this one will take a 100% effort of the entire player base, as well as a majority of the developers with design authority who's view actually *matter*.
The other key problem is that Turbine execs have convinced themselves this is the scam to make long term profit, and they will never admit their mistake nor back down, since that would necessarily mean admitting an executive *made* a mistake in the first place [which is impossible], so I suspect they are going to stick to this one regardless of the cost, or harm done the player base, they are banking on it in fact.
The only way to make an effective stand on this is to force a hit where it counts: in the Turbine wallet, its the only thing they care about, and its gonna have to be a *noticeable* hit to not get swept under the rug to save face of whichever executive made the boneheaded call to pull the trigger on this nerf/scam.
Are enough players willing to drop subscription/not buy the expansion, over this? Nope.
The corollary to that is, anyone who keeps paying their subscription, or gives Turbine real money after this, agrees with, and accepts the nerf as bona fide...

[smatt]

I have nothing to say nice or even remotely civil, so I'm better off not saying anything...

[Gremmlynn]

I can understand the sentiment of still wanting to run with guidies and friends, but from a practical perspective simply avoiding PUGs is unlikely to get the job done.

You listed some pretty substantial reasons why any divine caster should simply be parked or in solo only mode. If you really want to effect some change here, its time to face facts on what really needs to be done. The devs have spoken on what they want to do, and collectively, the choice is up to us whether we want to allow this to stand.

Divine casters are the most team orientated players in this game. All the nerfs we have received in this update is a clear indication of how much Turbine values team play in this game.

When Turbine started to talk about nerfs to Wail, one of the complaint threads ran to about 1400 posts, and the other was over 700 posts. Those threads helped shape what happened to Wail.

Divine casters find ourselves in this position simply because we are too passive to make an effective stand. The last time we DID make a stand was last year when out of the blue the devs gave us a new party UI that made it a real PITA to heal a group. A large number of divines were simply parked, and the devs grudgingly made changes not because they wanted to, but because they felt forced to.

A few minor complaints in the forums that go away after a few days will be totally ineffective in reversing any of these changes. What will be effective are lengthy threads that complain about the complete absence of divine casters from any groups.

Divine casters need to decide whether they are content to whine, or whether they really want to accomplish something. We, as a group, are in a position to leverage change more than any other group of players in the game. Its time for all of us to either put up or shut up.

It seems finding a new game would be a more foolproof solution as it doesn't rely on the devs reacting in the manner you expect to your leverage.

[Gkar]

My first character in this game was a cleric. That was my first TR as well.

I think I'm leaving my cleric & FVS permaparked at 20 now. Previously I had enough SP to heal and also enjoy strategic offensive action. Now... its a waste of time to log into them I think.

[TreknaQudane]

Looks like my FvS is going to get TR'd into a Wizard/Pale Master

[justagame]

To heck with parking most of my mains or playing guild-only. I have spent the last dime I will on this game if this sticks, and have no desire to invest time developing another character or class only to see the same thing happen.

While most of the discussion has been on the heal/spell output issue, let's not also forget the FoM nerf. It is really bad game design to suddenly obsolete things. "Oh that defensive spell you had before? Well, it's no good now."

Instead, create NEW things to defend against. Stop invalidating past abilities against past content. You want new drow poison to matter? Create a better poison. Now, that 7th level cleric who goes up against trogs with his neutralize poison spell will find it lasts 21 seconds, and is spammed with stench. It's now useless.

Same with FoM. You want drider webs to be more powerful? Make them more powerful, don't obsolete FoM against older content.

All this does is tick people off who've invested time in building, developing, and TR-ing characters. It's a sign of truly being out of touch with your player base.

[Dolphious]

I'm honestly unsure if some of the hyperbole in this thread is serious or not O.o

o.O

[BladeTricks]

I love the smell of "healers wanted" LFMs in the morning.

[Schwarzie]

Well my two Fvs will both kick out all Mass cures, Heal and Cure Crit are sufficient to keep myself alive while i run around wiht BB and cometfall. Up to now i at least healed Raids, thats done now.

I see a raise in the number of both LFHealer and BYOH LFMs.

I really dont see the rationale behind this nerf when it a) kills the elegant simplicity of the Spellpowersystem, and b) comes together with a expansion where Mobs hit for at least double as much then before.
Now a Barbarian needs two healers just for himself on epic elite.

[Faent]

I'm honestly unsure if some of the hyperbole in this thread is serious or not O.o

o.O

You part of the Mournlands Focus Group, maybe?

[Jasparion]

I love the smell of "healers wanted" LFMs in the morning.

True story, but last night 11 of us were waiting on the final spot to be filled by a melee. Took about 5 minutes.

Maybe they were all checking the LFM and thinking "this cant be right... ITS A TRAP !!!"