Epic Favor not working as intended

[MRMechMan]

READ THIS POST IF YOU WANT FREE FAVOR

If you set it up right, you can actually use this to favor farm TP.

You can use this to cheat the system.

Have an elite completion of, say von1 and 1002 favor, do epic normal and it will kick you down 10 favor to the 5 favor you get from a normal completion. You are now at 992 favor.

Do any other quest and get the 25TP favor reward again for getting 1000favor!

You can do this with any epic quest for free favor, and free turdbin points!

If you plan ahead, you can get fast favor.

No need to spend real money to get TP ever again. 3 easy payments of $9.95 and you'll recieve my book "Favor farming the easy way" by MRmechman. Order now and recieve my newsletter "Common exploits and how to use them", as a free gift.

But that's not all!

Order in the next 20 minutes and you'll also get a free FRDS! The clock is ticking so don't wait!

Thanks for making this possible turbine. It is obvious you care so much.

Maybe now that there is a potential benefit to the player, turbine will realize how moronic the current system is.


ps I have not tested this, nor is this post serious in any way.

pps the favor system sucks no way should your favor be LOWERED for doing epic normal or hard when you have an elite completion. Heroic completions should also not count when farming XP at epic levels. A child could design a better system, get it right.

[janave]

It depends on what "reasonable" is.

Silver Flame pots used to be pretty hard to get. Now they aren't.

If the raid item upgrades are supposed to be really hard to get, then Turbine has set the favor requirement at a level that will make them really hard to get. When more PDK favor comes out, those upgrades will be easier.

I'm fine with making the upgrades really hard to get. As long as Turbine doesn't sell an "upgrade token" in the DDO store.

I believe all new 6man quests on Hard, maybe some Forest/Village quests on elite, and skipping raid is fairly reasonable effort to fully access the PDK Vendor. Im not sure if the new armors will need the raid completion or not. I suppose the armors shouldnt be restricted to top level guilds and tight static groups, but thats very much only my opinion. People who PUG mainly never get to have the shinies.

[Shade]

I believe all new 6man quests on Hard, maybe some Forest/Village quests on elite, and skipping raid is fairly reasonable effort to fully access the PDK Vendor. Im not sure if the new armors will need the raid completion or not. I suppose the armors shouldnt be restricted to top level guilds and tight static groups, but thats very much only my opinion. People who PUG mainly never get to have the shinies.

Currently you need EVERYTHING to unlock it. Every quest epic elite, every challenge 6 stard, its quite hard, only a handful of people have done it.

Once the raids released, if you complete normal.. You'd still need every other quest on elite. You could then only 4-5 star challenges. That will bring it up to the point where maybe 10-20% of the playerbase can get it.

But the other 80% will not be happy.. The new only +1/2 for h/e would be ideal to solve that.

[fullpozzy]

per u14 official release notes:


Currently Epic Favor functions the same as heroic.

So "epic before the update" would mean same as heroic elite.

So "Beyond the Rift" should be giving:
Heroic Casual: 4 (verified it rounds up from 3.5)
Heroic Normal: 7
Heroic Hard: 14
Heroic Elite: 21
Epic Casual: 10
Epic Normal: 21
Epic Hard: 22
Epic Elite: 23

Instead it's giving:
Heroic Casual: 4
Heroic Normal: 7
Heroic Hard: 14
Heroic Elite: 21
Epic Casual: 3
Epic Normal: 7
Epic Hard: 14
Epic Elite: 21

Also believe if you complete heroic elite first and gain 21 favor, and later epic N/H you'll actaully lose favor.

(Bug is present live and on the current lamannia U14p1)

Tnx for pointing this out and now i understand why my favor has been so jumpy. But shade you failed.FAILED finish testing this.Turbine has an automated mailing system which you never tested. As stated a few post up if this is more than a visual bug you can get tons of free points just by exploiting this bug, but from what I have seen once you hit hit that next hundred mark and loose favor and gain it back you dont get another 25 points. So if that is the case, wouldnt this just be a visual bug????

[SisAmethyst]

...This is very turbinish approach, but no. Getting reasonable access to actual "now" content in an upcoming update isnt fair.

Not sure if I understand this right, but do you mean that getting high end game cormyrian red dragon armors which outdate even the previous epic red dragon scale from VON should be accessible through the masses from day one on, because one assume it is reasonable to get those in a fly by?

How long did it took to make the first tier III greensteel item for the masses as the Shroud was new? Sure the top notch guilds and players got it earlier, but the masses?

You aren't forced to run every content on epic elite nor are you locked out of any content to run by this favor mechanic, only of the highest tier of loot. Even the highest tier of Cannith Raid loot needs you to run the raid on epic. So as like PopeJual, as long as we get more Quests regarding this favor you eventually get your highest tier of loot.

Don't get me wrong, I sure would like to get those items eventually without needing to run on each of my characters all the content on epic elite, but I for myself aren't in a hurry and can way till we get more content with one of the next updates or if like supposed the favor would work like in the OP.

[Silex_Molior]

Not sure if I understand this right, but do you mean that getting high end game cormyrian red dragon armors which outdate even the previous epic red dragon scale from VON should be accessible through the masses from day one on, because one assume it is reasonable to get those in a fly by?

Why do people do this?

Player A: "Its ludicrous to get the new loot, only 0.1% of the players can get it, it shouldn't be so hard."
Above poster: "OMG, you want all the new raid loot mailed to each character on login?! No way!"
Player A: "..."

Taking something RIDICULOUS and making it "dang hard" is not the same thing as getting it with no effort EZMODE OMGBBQSAUCE (aka "fly by").

[Scraap]

Not sure if I understand this right, but do you mean that getting high end game cormyrian red dragon armors which outdate even the previous epic red dragon scale from VON should be accessible through the masses from day one on, because one assume it is reasonable to get those in a fly by?

Well, here's a largely philosophical question: Should being able to beat the most difficult content grant you rewards you didn't need in order to beat it, or should you be pursuing the best rewards in order to handle the most difficult content?

[janave]

Not sure if I understand this right, but do you mean that getting high end game cormyrian red dragon armors which outdate even the previous epic red dragon scale from VON should be accessible through the masses from day one on, because one assume it is reasonable to get those in a fly by?

How long did it took to make the first tier III greensteel item for the masses as the Shroud was new? Sure the top notch guilds and players got it earlier, but the masses?

You aren't forced to run every content on epic elite nor are you locked out of any content to run by this favor mechanic, only of the highest tier of loot. Even the highest tier of Cannith Raid loot needs you to run the raid on epic. So as like PopeJual, as long as we get more Quests regarding this favor you eventually get your highest tier of loot.

Don't get me wrong, I sure would like to get those items eventually without needing to run on each of my characters all the content on epic elite, but I for myself aren't in a hurry and can way till we get more content with one of the next updates or if like supposed the favor would work like in the OP.

Yeah same old answers ...

See, getting the armors is THE grind, on its own, having access to a vendor is another thing. I too can wait, what i think is unfair is to lock out 99% of the population to have said access. It is just lame design, and there is no excuse for it. I understand that my "reasonable" is very subjective but, it is still a challange for most people, it is for me, not straight impossible as epic elites. EE in a pug scene is not gonna happen soon or ever.

Btw good examples, Cannith raid epic is rather "old" now, yet non existent on the pug scene, and when it is, its just mostly for griefing effort from the uberguilds.

I never implied that i want everyone to loot red armors on day one on they fly, clearly. I dont like the forum discussions mostly becuse people read much more "hallucinogens?" into my posts .

[shadereaper33]

Not sure if I understand this right, but do you mean that getting high end game cormyrian red dragon armors which outdate even the previous epic red dragon scale from VON should be accessible through the masses from day one on, because one assume it is reasonable to get those in a fly by?

How long did it took to make the first tier III greensteel item for the masses as the Shroud was new? Sure the top notch guilds and players got it earlier, but the masses?

You aren't forced to run every content on epic elite nor are you locked out of any content to run by this favor mechanic, only of the highest tier of loot. Even the highest tier of Cannith Raid loot needs you to run the raid on epic. So as like PopeJual, as long as we get more Quests regarding this favor you eventually get your highest tier of loot.

Don't get me wrong, I sure would like to get those items eventually without needing to run on each of my characters all the content on epic elite, but I for myself aren't in a hurry and can way till we get more content with one of the next updates or if like supposed the favor would work like in the OP.

You seem to be missing a key concept here. Getting the PDK favor vendor does NOT in fact give you the new dragonscale armors. It simply gives you the ability to make them, if you have all of the ingredients. Should a person who has all 20 scales, and all of the necessary commendations not be allowed to craft their new dragonscale armor simply because they don't like to run challenges? Should a person who has the spider spun caparison not be allowed to upgrade it to have the set bonus simply because a few of the quests are a bit beyond him/her at the moment on elite? Now, if you could just go and buy all of these items straight from the favor vendor without having to actually go farm them out of their respective quests, your argument might have a bit of validity. As it is, your argument is at best silly, and at worst, well, lets just say I can't type those words on this forum.

[EliahuTheMighty]

I agree that the eHard being Elite +1 and eElite being Elite +2 favor was a nice idea. The big complication I see from that though is that the new content is mostly epic only. So Having everything give a base of the 'Elite' favor amount doesn't really make sense.

However, given how hard I've heard epic elite is compared to epic hard, and that you have to have full PDK favor unlocked to access a major component of the newer crafting systems, I do think that a happy medium needs to be found.

[SisAmethyst]

...See, getting the armors is THE grind, on its own, having access to a vendor is another thing. I too can wait, what i think is unfair is to lock out 99% of the population to have said access. It is just lame design, and there is no excuse for it. I understand that my "reasonable" is very subjective but, it is still a challange for most people, it is for me, not straight impossible as epic elites. EE in a pug scene is not gonna happen soon or ever...

You seem to be missing a key concept here. Getting the PDK favor vendor does NOT in fact give you the new dragonscale armors. It simply gives you the ability to make them, if you have all of the ingredients. Should a person who has all 20 scales, and all of the necessary commendations not be allowed to craft their new dragonscale armor simply because they don't like to run challenges?...

Ok you got me here as I am not a big fan of the Challenges neither and yes I agree that for players that don't belong to the top ten guilds (no matter if they are good) have the possibility to collect enough scales but may have difficulties to unlock the favor.
I also agree that there will probably not much of a EE pug scene (depending on server you may even not see much EH pugging).

But I think while the philosophical question "Should being able to beat the most difficult content grant you rewards you didn't need in order to beat it,..." was brought up, that the point is more that you not necessarily need the epic rewards at all to beat this content. I think it is more the additional reward you get for your effort to reach it. Additionally it is a reward you really can earn and work on, against other rewards that are more based on luck like the Dragontouched lottery or the lucky pull on the ToD rings.

This favor is like the cherry on the cake and I believe that there will be future content that will make it easier to earn enough favor so you will get it eventually, or at least, I hope
So while I agree to the sentiment - and yes I would like to have it as well sooner then later - I still think it is good that for the moment there is a difficulty to obtain it. It brings an incentive to run the content to reach it and this as well mean grouping. But yes, I also see a well the danger that if the wall is too high that it will have a back drift effect and people will just shrug and abandon it, not bothering at all because it is too hard, but this could change new content that is based on the same favor over night, so in the end a tough call.

So where would be the compromise of both?

PS: Except of some good wine no hallucinogens where used to create this posting

[Callpso]

So to get the most favor out of LOB, I should have run it on heroic elite, instead of epic hard? That seems a little backwards to me. For someone actually trying to unlock the second tier of House C favor, that was very frustrating, especially since I don't even see heroic runs of LOB on Argo. I went in expecting things to work as they always had, that even running it on epic, I would get what heroic elite would have given (21), and came out with 14. So, in essence, I was punished for choosing a harder completion.

[MRMechMan]

So to get the most favor out of LOB, I should have run it on heroic elite, instead of epic hard? That seems a little backwards to me. For someone actually trying to unlock the second tier of House C favor, that was very frustrating, especially since I don't even see heroic runs of LOB on Argo. I went in expecting things to work as they always had, that even running it on epic, I would get what heroic elite would have given (21), and came out with 14. So, in essence, I was punished for choosing a harder completion.

Epic hard is actually a LOT easier than heroic elite.

Heck, heroic normal is harder than epic hard.

There is a reason you don't see heroic LOBs anymore...epic n/h gives better loot, is faster/easier and 18-19s don't really run LOB anyway.

I don't think the current favor system is right, but LOB isn't a great example really.

[Shade]

Epic hard is actually a LOT easier than heroic elite.

Heck, heroic normal is harder than epic hard.

There is a reason you don't see heroic LOBs anymore...epic n/h gives better loot, is faster/easier and 18-19s don't really run LOB anyway.

I don't think the current favor system is right, but LOB isn't a great example really.

Yea true it isn't.

But what about cases like the lvl7 house D series? lvl7 (9) bargain of blood elite is obvious a joke to epic characters, yet it rewards FAR more favor then Epic C/N/H?

Doesn't make any sense to encourage epic level players to run a lvl7 quest to get a far better reward then a lvl~21/22/23 one.

Unrelated but also a major problem:
The easiest version of Epic Lord of Blades (EN) currently drops the ultimate rewards: Tier 3 spirits/tier2 frags. However, to most new/ungeared players they are useless to them, as you cant use them tell you hvae the tier1 and 2 spirits. The 2s drop on EH, which is also fairly easy, so they might get them. But the Tier1s only drop on heroic normal/hard.. Which as you said - no one runs. So it essentially completely prevents new players from acquireing alchemical. A pretty messed up system.

Related thread here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4642325

Keep replying here though and with enough support from the community turbine might respond (again) and finally implement the system they originally planned to.

[MRMechMan]

Yea true it isn't.

But what about cases like the lvl7 house D series? lvl7 (9) bargain of blood elite is obvious a joke to epic characters, yet it rewards FAR more favor then Epic C/N/H?

Doesn't make any sense to encourage epic level players to run a lvl7 quest to get a far better reward then a lvl~21/22/23 one.

Unrelated but also a major problem:
The easiest version of Epic Lord of Blades (EN) currently drops the ultimate rewards: Tier 3 spirits/tier2 frags. However, to most new/ungeared players they are useless to them, as you cant use them tell you hvae the tier1 and 2 spirits. The 2s drop on EH, which is also fairly easy, so they might get them. But the Tier1s only drop on heroic normal/hard.. Which as you said - no one runs. So it essentially completely prevents new players from acquireing alchemical. A pretty messed up system.

Related thread here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4642325

Keep replying here though and with enough support from the community turbine might respond (again) and finally implement the system they originally planned to.

Personally I am more after teir3 frags and teir2 spirits, so Ehard is what I most prefer. In fact, LOB just needs an entire reworking IMO. It is very clearly broken on epic n/h and having 6 difficulties is just weird...no one runs it at level 18-19 anyway.

I agree that LOB/MA are a weird situation as heroic difficulties are harder than epic for the most part, whereas most epic eberrons have level 5-12 base levels heroic so heroic elite is much easier in comparison.

I think the original system would have been far better than the one that is in place now. Epic should not give less than heroic, ever.

[Habreno]

Currently you need EVERYTHING to unlock it. Every quest epic elite, every challenge 6 stard, its quite hard, only a handful of people have done it.

Once the raids released, if you complete normal.. You'd still need every other quest on elite. You could then only 4-5 star challenges. That will bring it up to the point where maybe 10-20% of the playerbase can get it.

But the other 80% will not be happy.. The new only +1/2 for h/e would be ideal to solve that.

In all actuality, it's easier (not by much) than that to get the favor.


Going through all the PDK favor:

Murder by Night-6 Base (18 HE)
The Riddle-7 Base (21 HE)
Don't Drink the Water-8 Base (24 EE)
In the Belly of the Beast-8 Base (24 EE)
Impossible Demands-7 Base (21 EE)
The Unquiet Graves-7 Base (21 EE)
The Lost Thread-8 Base (24 EE)
The Battle for Eveningstar-8 Base (24 EE)
The House of Rusted Blades-8 Base (24 EE)
The House of Broken Chains-8 Base (24 EE)
The House of Death Undone-8 Base (24 EE)
The Portal Opens-8 Base (24 EE)
Trial By Fury-8 Base (24 EE)
The Deal and the Demon-8 Base (24 EE)
Reclaiming the Rift-8 Base (24 EE)
Caught in the Web-8 Base (24 EE)

Challenges:
Dryad Grove: Defenseless-6
Dryad Grove: The Great Tree-6
Ruined Keep: The Sunset Ritual-6
Underdark Arena: Fight to the Finish-6
Underdark Arena: Ring of Fire-6

There are 5 stars per challenge. Completing the challenge with all 5 stars on the maximum CR for the challenge awards a sixth bonus star.


Favor from quests: 369
Favor from challenges: 30
Total Favor: 399

You can skip the raid entirely and still have enough favor.

[Shade]

In all actuality, it's easier (not by much) than that to get the favor.

<cut>

You can skip the raid entirely and still have enough favor.

Um yea your quoting a post, which was dated at a time when said raid was not available.

And yea you need EVERYTHING and all 6 stars all challenges if you skip the raid.

Will be a bit easier still with the new challenge in U15, so someone can quote your post and say its wrong

[Habreno]

Um yea your quoting a post, which was dated at a time when said raid was not available.

And yea you need EVERYTHING and all 6 stars all challenges if you skip the raid.

Will be a bit easier still with the new challenge in U15, so someone can quote your post and say its wrong

Yeah... missed the date.

My fault.