What's your feedback?

[FooWonk]

+9% dodge (+1 from each shadow charge)

Untouchable maxes out at 7% regardless of how many shadow charges you have stored. This is very noticeable on my character that is not yet geared to cap dodge.

It's a shame that the good offensive stuff is not working. Consume will make this destiny insane.

When Consume is fixed, I'll definitely be adjusting accordingly.

[RS-Makk]

Untouchable maxes out at 7% regardless of how many shadow charges you have stored. This is very noticeable on my character that is not yet geared to cap dodge.

Do you know how many total charges you can hold? Is it the 20 needed to trigger Oncoming Darkness, or more? (such that I could say.. have 27, trigger Oncoming Darkness, and still have the 7% Dodge bonus).

[RS-Makk]

It's permanent. You spend a shadow charge to turn it on, and you stay like that for as long as you wish.

Wow. Why would I want to turn it off? (how often do we get attacked by light effects?)

[sephiroth1084]

Wow. Why would I want to turn it off? (how often do we get attacked by light effects?)

More often than you'd think.

[HidalgoXaran]

Thought I'd give my two cents on the Shadowdancer ED.My main is a pure 28 point (first character) build human rogue with 4 levels in SD.

I think this ED is just plain great.

-The DCs for assassinate is awesome, +6 makes this ability a no fail

-Grim precision, while being more subtle, is pretty neat.

-I do use the Escape as soon as the fight starts being crowded and I it has helped me a lot so far.

-I don't use much Shrouding strike at the moment since I havent unlocked Untouchable yet. I however use Improve invisibility quite often, usually just after assassinating 1 or 2 caster. I then run to archers and pin them down.

-As for Shadow Training, I stand at 17d6+12 SA, which is alright I guess. (at least on paper, I think people say ISA is bugged at the moment)

-I use Shadow Training II at the beginning of everybattle so as to get to the caster as fast as possible. With improved Sneak speed, it's crazy fast.

-Shadow Training III... I use it but eh, what can I say.

-Shadow Training IV: I use it quite often to reach a group, not the biggest thing, but I like having access to it.

-Shadow Training V: Just got to that level yesterday and I like the autonomy it gives me.


I'm just super eager to try Consume and Shadow Manipulaiton once they are fixed.

So, having a lot of fun so far. With Precision, I now SA the training dummy, which is pretty neat.

HidalgoXaran

[FooWonk]

Do you know how many total charges you can hold? Is it the 20 needed to trigger Oncoming Darkness, or more? (such that I could say.. have 27, trigger Oncoming Darkness, and still have the 7% Dodge bonus).

How I understand oncoming darkness from beta & lam feedback:
It is a separate counter from shadow charges. It goes up whenever you get a
shadow charge, but only goes down when you use oncoming darkness.

That said, I've not tested this because:

Except when soloing or in an explorer area, I rarely reach 9 shadow charges. In
quests my oncoming darkness counter would never reach 20 between shrines. If
you have a blue bar or action boosts to refresh, you lose the oncoming darkness
charges when you shrine.

It'd be worth it for a repeater artificer with IPS & endless fusillade just to see all
the dark explosions. But for a melee build like mine, 20 seconds of 2d6 per hit is
underwhelming and the 2 AP are better spent elsewhere.

If the duration of the boost was greater or the counter was reduced to 10, it'd be
worthwhile. But then it'd be quite overpowering on an IPS + endless fusillade
artificer.

[Eladiun]

My feedback. Half the ED is broken because Marks don't work so right now I rate it as terrible. However, it looks like it could be really cool if it actually worked.

[FooWonk]

-Shadow Training IV: I use it quite often to reach a group, not the biggest thing, but I like having access to it.

I'd like to be able to stop buying shadow walk scrolls, but I've yet to successfully
use the shadow walk innate.

When ST:IV is triggered the shadow walk effect is removed immediately.

[FooWonk]

Getting charges:

° Shrouding Strike / Shrouding Shot - use either of these to do +X[W] and curse
an enemy. If the enemy dies in the next 8 seconds, you get a shadow charge.

° Assassination - is supposed to increase shadow charges...my shadow dancer is
an artificer so I have no idea if it does or not.

Passive Uses:

° Shadow Lances - if you have any shadow charges stored, chance to
blind opponent (likely broken, anyone test?)

° Untouchable - +1% dodge per shadow charge held...up to +7% dodge.

Active Uses:

° Cloak of Shadow - uses 1 charge to activate protection from light.

° Shadow form - users 1 charge to become a shadow wraith of pure awesome:
—> 25% incorporeal
—> featherfall
—> +30 stealth & tumble bonuses
—> and you can tumble through mobs!!!

The Broken Stuff:

° Executioner's Strike & Executioner's Shot's death chance - the effect is
applied then removed from enemy immediately. At least you still get the +X[W].

° Consume - just doesn't work...as a consolation, you do get a nice icon in
your buff bar.

° Shadow form strength damage on crits - just doesn't work

[brzytki]

snip

You forgot to add a pathetic Epic Moment for melees which has Shadow Form as a prereq - why it's like that I don't quite get.

[HidalgoXaran]

I'd like to be able to stop buying shadow walk scrolls, but I've yet to successfully
use the shadow walk innate.

When ST:IV is triggered the shadow walk effect is removed immediately.

So as I understand this, ST-IV is broken as well. Bah, that's like homeopathy, placebo effect! Or maybe it isnt. I got less lag when using ShadowWalk. :P

I still like the ED so far, though I really hope they'll fix it tomorrow...

HidalgoXaran

[scoobmx]

It's pretty weak for rogues. The problem is that many abilities are assassin specific and the rest are total trash for acrobats and mechanics.

[Qezuzu]

When ST:IV is triggered the shadow walk effect is removed immediately.

I'm not experiencing this.

° Shadow Manipulation - just doesn't work

It was working for me, last week. I'm currently leveling other destinies, but Shadow Manipulation was easily one of the most powerful abilities in there. Super high save DC, ultra-long range (works through walls); it's great for entering a room/area, as the dominated mob will grab all the aggro. Excellent for setting up an Assassinate (especially since Assassinate is still broken), and in general a very powerful ability for stealth play.

I also love Shadow Form. With that active, I have over 90 unbuffed stealth. Stealth is very powerful in epic elite content, and overall very under-appreciated play style. The shadow form animation is also cool, what with just floating around.

In EE, the bosses seem to have insane diplomacy/bluff checks... the Priestess in Impossible Demands, I failed on a 75 (60+15 roll) with her. If this is WAI, and the case for most bosses, Escape Notice will be even more useful. When fighting bosses, I have the Sneak of Shadows Past Life active, for another +20 stealth, meaning +110 for a diplo check. Hilarious.

Sneak Freedom is also fun, and has its uses.

But there are problems with this ED, though. First off, Consume, one of the most powerful features in this ED, is broken. Executioner's Strike is also broken. The Epic Moment is very, very weak. I tried it once, just to see the "extened range of melee weapons", and was not impressed. You get about the range of an enlarged Otto's Irresistible. Cool animation, though.

There aren't enough uses for Shadow Charges... Use one to get into Shadow Form. Keep the shadow charges at max for the dodge bonus and a better Executioner's Strike kill chance (which doesn't work). But past that, you can use it for Consume (long cooldown, doesn't work), Cloak of Shadows (long cooldown, but important when you're in Shadow Form), or Shadow Manipulation (long cooldown, but powerful).

It could definitely use some bug fixes, and a bit of tweaking, but it's a nice ED. Don't forget that it gives 6d6 SA dice, too.

[Qezuzu]

Just took some screenshots. Shadow Manipulation works fine.



When Manipulation kills the helpful, charmed mob

[HidalgoXaran]

@Qezuzu

Pff!! I'm pretty sure the drow died just because of an allergy to your pet. Isn't that what they call an anaphylactic shock?

Glad to see that one works!

HidalgoXaran

[Syrophir]

Only problem with manipulation is that it is copy of dominate and so unlike its description it only works on those that dominate works so even some creatures have shadows (spiders?) they are immune to manipulation.

[HidalgoXaran]

The thing about spiders having shadows seems right.

I wouldn't mind if a wisp couldn'tbe consumed as it emits lights.

I'd like to see the ability being dependant (not totally but at least affected) by luminosity.

The darker it is, the more powerful consume is (Like the controlled caracter shadow could jump to a second target). The lighter it is, the less powerfull it is (no second target).

Anyway, I just want to Consume stuff! More stuff!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

This worries me... Can anyone confirm if the faster sneaking stacks with all other forms of speed boost?
Considering devs commented that the current max obtainable movement speed is just shy off causing problems mechanics wise, this may bring us over the edge...

13 rogue/6 monk/1 ranger inquest max speed
50% faster sneaking rogue enhancement
10% faster sneaking ninja spy enhancement
10% monk movement speed boost
10% movement speed boost from acrobat 2
35% spring boost
40% movement speed from shadow walk (or 32% from haste)
+155% movement speed (so total 255%)
Without the sneaking stuff, current max is what, +105% (inquest, not counting pendant of time)?

A sneaking rogue can be seriously fast. Game breakingly so.

As far as I have seen, faster sneaking only works whil ein sneak mode, but does seem to stack with other speed boosts, such as Haste and Striding.

I do nt have a Monk Rogue, but my Monk does use sneak and seems to benefit from Monk movement speed while sneaking, so my guess would be that a Monk/Rogue could use Faster Sneaking and get them to stack.

I have used Ranger Sprint Boost while sneaking and that works. But I cannnot do the math to be sure it stacks with Faster Sneaking (my Rgr/Rog only has Faster sneaking I) But I do believe that it stacks.


I do not believe that all of the things you mentioned will in fact stack though. I think some of them are coded as the same type of speeed enhancement, and/or both types of clickies cannot be activated at one time. (not sure though, since I have not used some of them, and definately have not had all of them on the same character)


Note that Monks and sprinting classes will still move slower while sneaking than they would using the same clickies while not sneaking. (not counting the epic enhancement that was mentioned above)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Wow. Why would I want to turn it off? (how often do we get attacked by light effects?)

There's one room in Mindsunder that I may start turning it off in.
When I went back into that room after a wipe, I did not go into Lich form, until that fight was over.

[Qezuzu]

[you get hit by light damage] more often than you'd think.

Good thing there's cloak of shadows. And the Epic Mirror Cloak.

There's also an Exalted Angel ability that makes you take less damage from light effects. That could be a good Twist for Shadowdancer, if you're going into a quest with a lot of light damage.