Druid...what do they offer?

[Dagolar]

I really tried hard to find some love for Druids while the beta server was up. And I'm giving it one last go on a build I didn't have the time to test on Llama.

But, overall, I have to say that Druid is a huge misfire and wasted opportunity. Maybe like Pale Master, time will evolve them into something better... but for right now there is precious little to admire or find the fun with in the current Druid. Substandard across the board, with lackluster PrEs and uninspiring capstones.


I'm kinda sad that I was waiting/hoping for Druids all these years, only to see this kind of shoddy implementation of them.

Lets hope that, not being rushed with the expansion deadline any longer, the devs will take some time to rework Druids with the enhancement update- along with finishing up the Destinies they didn't manage to spend any time on [Cough, Magister] or even add in at all [Druid, Artificer, Cleric], and finally getting around to balancing out [old] epic items.

Lets hope :P

[fco-karatekid]

Druids look like they may be an OK solo class, but what do they really bring to the table. In my next Shroud LFM, what can a Druid offer that would compel me to take one over most other classes.

Marginal Healing (Maybe on par with a Bard)
Marginal Nuking (Far behind a Savant, behind a Wiz too IMHO)
Marginal Instakill (Far behind a Wiz, maybe on par with a Sorc, Cleric or FVS...Maybe not)
Marginal Melee (should I really even be talking about Melee from a Druid Stand Point?)
Crowd Control....Pretty weak
Group Buffing (Maybe better than a Ranger or Pally, but far behind other casters)
Trap Skills...non existent


It looks like Druids can do ALOT, but none of it very well. I rolled one up and may change my mind later, but from what I can tell...I'm not impressed.

What exactly was all the clamour about for the past several years....everyone wanted Druids...now we got them.


So...what exactly makes a Druid special?

Marginal Healing IMHO, NOT on par with a well-built Bard. I've built a sucky secondary healing bard, but some of the bard addicts you see on the forums can far out-heal druids (that I've seen thus far)

Marginal Nuking Yah - Far behind EVERYTHING

Marginal Instakill Cannot touch any of the classes you mentioned

Marginal Melee kinda OK - still playing with this (see below)

Crowd Control VERY weak

Group Buffing Given the option among similar classes, I'd rather have a Ranger buffing. If I were that Ranger, however, I'd prefer you ask the Druid (I THINK Dru is better off with spell points, given Enhancements available to both)

Trap Skills right, and no open lock, either, without a splash

Upon its release, I started reading through the mishmash of information available on Lam and Live fora (we REALLY need more info - thank goodness ddowiki is getting updated constantly!). The best I could come up with is the class really is best as a splash to boost or augment another class' abilities. That said, I think splashing with a wiz or sorc would likely NERF those two...

Melee, for example, might benefit from the ability to turtle up in bear form for additional DR (especially with aggravate). I KNOW this is true in lower levels - just dunno how long that stays beneficial.

There are some spell-based synergies with AA rangers, and forms could help when they have the bow down - all situational.

Bards that splash it might be able to get something other than buffs or cc out of a splash of druid (dmg - yay) - but then there's that whole balance attributes thing with Wis.

Monk synergies are working out ok so far; but I am at a point where it appears OUT OF FORM, I am getting more damage out of the 4 monk levels than I am IN FORM with 6 dru...

I am only up to EDIT: 12 with this one (monk/dru/ftr); so time will tell.

[magicswolf]

This topic more looks like whats not good about the druid.
Actually I like the druid.

things about the druid:
- nice heals. yes oke they don't have mass heal. But they still have heal and mass regenate. both very nice spells.
- good class for people that couldnt find everything in the class cleric. My friend made a cleric with a reapeter in the hope to deal more damage. He did find his playing style more in the druid.
- nice AoE spells.
- still a good class when out of mana. When they get a crit you can get enough spell points to cast a bigger heal or AoE spell. so spells that cost more then 12 mana.
- melee damage with fire blade is not that bad and with the right spells like baiting bite still nice.
- if you take season herald, you can get spring. When you get below 50% everyone thats in range gets a heal. and its a instand cast. so no waiting and gives more survivebility.
- you can choose between tank or attack fast.
- wolf from got snowslide. good spell in some dangerous situations. Like spinner is comming afther you! you can get some distance and make your move.
- weapon effects still last in animal form. if you got a paralyzing weapon and go in wolf form you can paralyze alot of monsters in a short time.
- they got alot of buffs.
- they can rez people.

[idle1]

Druids can go absolutely nuts on persistent AoEs. To list them all:

Entangle
Sleet Storm
Spike Growth
Ice Storm
Wall of Fire
Call Lightning Storm
Body of the Sun
Earthquake
Storm of Vengeance

I think a lot of people are underestimating the melee potential on a druid.

As others have said too, they have the potential to make a good self healing tank.

This, druids won't suit people who have the zerg mentality, slow killing in general. They can heal just fine through, below the other two divines but above bards, and I healed epics fine on my bard in the past. Heal scrolls, hots and heal spell make for great tank healing, aoe damage is where it can hurt abit. I never got to try earthquake in epic elite in beta, but on hard and below at least half of mobs spent most of time on butts on an evo spec. Add to that you can fom and sleet storm for auto blind (the new displacement) cc is just about equal of the other divines.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Druids in DDO are implemented correctly.
They never have been a "go-to" class.
They are supporting party members, And have a role to play.

In PnP 4.0 (meh) rules they can become very potent, but this is 3.5 rules, and only in an extreme campaign would you see a High Roller Druid.

So, I think Turbine did the class correctly. (for now) Update 15 should see a tweak to the class. imo.



The big mistake people make is comparing a Druid to any other blue bar. Not a fair comparison.


One thing we can look forward to, as the FR area gets developed. the Druids inherent abilities will shine thru. That's where they have full potential, not in Eberron's "Steam Punk" setting.

[Gorbadoc]

Marginal Healing IMHO, NOT on par with a well-built Bard. I've built a sucky secondary healing bard, but some of the bard addicts you see on the forums can far out-heal druids (that I've seen thus far)

What we see right now needs to be taken with a grain of salt. With bards, the builds are fine-tuned, and the players have mastered the pacing of the healing. Also, the not-so-good bard players quit playing bards years ago. Druids haven't had that time to develop.

[Maxallu]

Druids can go absolutely nuts on persistent AoEs. To list them all:

Entangle
Sleet Storm
Spike Growth
Ice Storm
Wall of Fire
Call Lightning Storm
Body of the Sun
Earthquake
Storm of Vengeance

And then you are out of Sp.

[Postumus]

I think a lot of people are underestimating the melee potential on a druid.

As others have said too, they have the potential to make a good self healing tank.

I just don't see the melee potential. Granted my druid is still a lowbie, but I've played S&B pallies and clerics that have better damage output.

So far druids seem to be about on par with bards for melee output from what I've experienced, but without the CC and group buffs.

[Postumus]

Melee, for example, might benefit from the ability to turtle up in bear form for additional DR (especially with aggravate). I KNOW this is true in lower levels - just dunno how long that stays beneficial.

I wouldn't think for long since they can't wear decent armor.

[muffinlad]

I have played a Druid so far to level 15- more at a casual pace. Mostly have been playing with Pugs, as most of my fellow Lava Divers are off kicking the **** out of the higher level content.

Primary Thesis: Druids are a class that lets me play a spell caster for a short burst of time, and then switch to melee as required until a shrine shows up. For the Party- They are some extra blasting power that transforms into some below average melee once their blue bar is gone.

I could try to do both (cast/melee/cast/melee...etc.) but gear wise, and focus wise, this rarely works out well for me so I normally have to change my Melee gear out with my casting gear to be effective in either, so making switches quickly hurts my pea brain.

My build was 14 str, 16 Con, 18 Wis human (The rest random dump-age,) and I had a mix of +2 and +3 tomes.

Primary Play thoughts:

The mana granted is light for the build.I hate having to take Mental Toughness, but there have been PLENTY of times where I have been spelling using the 12 mana that comes back to me now and again. The Caster based Pr's need to grant an SP bonus, or have a built in Mana reduction when using Max/Emp.

As to how they help the party: Mild Buffs, Some Heals, and...as a single target killer of mobs, and support DPs on a Boss, I found that Druids do great. Their spells are pretty fast cast, except for Reincarnate, so I actually found no need for Quicken at all so far. I find their AOE as amplified by Enhancements a bit on the weak side, as they use the old school grouping style (Cold and Acid as one, etc.) This makes it hard to focus on the damage types that make the most sense based on the spells granted in the game/mobs targeted. I would suggest that leaving most of them alone, but reducing their cost would be a nice bonus to Druids (at 1 pt a level, rather than 1/2/3/4)

Since I had TR'd a Cleric that I had mothballed, I had Blue Dragon Plate. I was happy to find out that it did not shut off spells. At 15, I spent a Feat on being able to use it, and it gave me a significant boost on Passive Damage reduction and a decent AC when in bear form. (Better than I normally get, as I usually suck at building AC toons).

Most of the natural immunities are a disappointment for Druids (Timeless Body, Poison Immunity), and the lack of higher level nature abilities make it hard to bring it's full majesty, but the passive low cost healy buff is nice (though I rarely see it go off)

There are some interesting "Side" enhancements that add different things to spells, which are fine, though the Undead additional damage one is way too expensive.

So far, I am liking it, but I can see a great deal of room for improvement regarding how it can help with the party beyond being a healer minus, blaster minus melee minus back up dude.

Regards,

muffindruid.

[Chimeran1]

Druid = worst class I ever played. Different builds, yes, made no difference.

Druid needs to be re written into something worth playing.

Redo the spells for starters, have you seen the level 9 spells, what a joke, you do not even need them.

Go bear form, starting wisdom of 10, leave the level 9 spells. High strength, high con , get some heal amp and you can be a parties soul stone carrier.

Thats all Druids are good for, carrying soul stones.

[Terminus-Est]

Druids are very hard to implement to PNP standards; that is why we had to wait so long for them, eh? And as it stands, we'll likely be waiting longer still.

Druids should have access to far more spells than we are seeing, for starters. For a caster, spell versatility is power. Wizards are the current kings of this, which is how it -should- be, but druids were not far behind. Divines in general, need an expansion of their available spells, but Druids are specifically being denied access to spells that are available in game and they should normally have.

Druids core class features that set them apart from Clerics is their Animal Companion and Wild Shape, both of which are implemented in a somewhat less than satisfactory fashion currently. Changing into an animal form is supposed to radically change your physical stats; the most we've seen is +4 con. It's also supposed to not change your mental stats at all, yet we get maluses. The more exotic forms, like Elemental or Plant are also supposed to confer a variety of special abilities, like energy immunities, heavy fortification, mind blank effects, etc. Not to mention the access to every movement mode in the game as soon as you get wildshape; a druid should be able to run at 50x speed bursts, fly, burrow, swim and breath underwater at level 5; all with the use of wildshape, as a limited use ability. At the moment, we have a small non-stacking movement speed increase that we can get whenever we want. Natural Spell was a feat that let you cast without any issues in animal form; while I'm happy that I don't have to take a feat to cast poorly in animal form, I would appreciate being able to take a feat to cast better!

Their animal companion, for all the code it shares with the artificers Iron Defender is sadly lacking. Its enhancements seem straight worse while being very similar, it doesn't seem to currently be able to wear armor and Druids are not exactly Crafter-centric, unlike Artificers, who have no qualms about making all the gear for their pet, or looting Docents for them that Animal Companions cannot use. The Druid animal companion is supposed to have some variety to support several themes of druid. It -does- increase in size accurately at least, but its stats and survivability are a bit lacking, even when buffed.

Druids also demand a certain kind of gear that not many other people are interested in. Specifically, light and medium armors that are NOT made out of metal. Theoretically, Glasssteel should be available as a spell to transform any steel into glass for exactly this reason, but we don't have that luxury. In fact, the random material properties that previous made Darkwood armors that a druid could use, were removed from loot tables at the same time as the class itself was created. And how many interesting scimitars are in the game, eh? (Quite a few actually, but there could always be more!) While the sword is represented, the next two most commonly used Druid weapons simply do not exist; the Spear and the Sling (which has a large number of druid specific spells related to it) are mysteriously missing, with no plans of appearing on the horizon.

TL;DR version:

Druids on DDO are not faithful recreations of the PNP powerhouses who had no problem dominating every PC role in a party other than traps; but also had no problems bypassing traps from level 5+

SHOULD they be though? Well, no. But they could be closer and not cause any trouble, I think ^_^

[Diyon]

And then you are out of Sp.

Well, ya. I wasn't suggesting using ALL of those at once. But a few of them stacked up can be nice, some of them have decent durations too (nonextendable as opposed to the static often 30 seconds duration, although some have that).

Point being, that many of these can be set to supplement damage output even on melee type builds.

I do think that druids do need a little help, but I think people are missing on a lot of what's possible.

[magicswolf]

I think people are missing on a lot of what's possible.

agree on this.

[grayham]

Druids offer variety, choice, the opportunity for experimentation, a flexible class that actually transcends tradtional (read : outdated) views on party roles, the chance for many players to play through something they've yearned after for years, not to mention numerous multi-class possibilities.

But other than that, nothing.

[riexau]

btw Spring Resurgence got stealth nerfed about 3 days ago. It now has a 5 sec cd.

It really was too good to last with 0 cast time and 0 cd.

[Diyon]

btw Spring Resurgence got stealth nerfed about 3 days ago. It now has a 5 sec cd.

It really was too good to last with 0 cast time and 0 cd.

It must have been a bug that slipped back in, because I know it had a cooldown added to it on beta before it live.

And ya it was kind of silly with out it. If you weren't taking too much damage you could just drop your aoes and spam click it while stuff beat on you.

[riexau]

It must have been a bug that slipped back in, because I know it had a cooldown added to it on beta before it live.

And ya it was kind of silly with out it. If you weren't taking too much damage you could just drop your aoes and spam click it while stuff beat on you.

Oh there's no question 'why' they fixed it - I knew it was coming but I was hoping it'd last at least until 14.1 though lol.

I predict we'll see a nerf to ressurgence within the next week here for starters.

Sigh

If only my lottery number predictions were so accurate. (to be fair, they are - I predict I will not win the lottery tonight)

Maybe we can push to make it un-dispellable?

[magicswolf]

btw Spring Resurgence got stealth nerfed about 3 days ago. It now has a 5 sec cd.

It really was too good to last with 0 cast time and 0 cd.

aaaw

[Taimasan]

How come I always like the classes people hate?