Melee Druids : Big Ol Gimpmyster

[Chimeran1]

Thinking about playing a melee Druid?
Great class for doing nothing well from levels 16 onwards.
Hey you get to be a wolf or a bear right... cool
That was what I was thinking, now I just think melee Druids are gimp, fun yes, gimp very.

Please take 2 levels of monk for evasion and a starting Dex of 14+ , you will need this to survive.

Ditch the flamesword spell, it is totally gimpage. If your going melee Druid, max out strength go Half orc ~ they get the largest forms.
Half orc strength enhancements, druid strength enhancements, power attack enhancements ( PA seems broken )

Ditch the wolf pet, it sucks

Half Orc Druid, maxed out strength = target dummy damage ( if your power attacks not broken ) about 50-60/hit
In dungeon runs your damage if it has not been gimped out by DR hit for about 30/swing ~ broken ?

Is the strength bonuses even working here? Power attack sure does not seem to be, nor all the enhancements.

Don't get me wrong, Druids are fun to play but bring nothing to a party that another class can't do 80% better.

Healing is gimped out, awesome...try healing a shroud with your HoTs and one heal spell at level.
Your wolf form knock down that is supposed to work with all trip DC bonuses ( strength ? ) fails every time, I have gone back to using standard trip, it works more often.

Garments of equilibrium will reduce your dps
Vorpals when I equip were doing 1d4 damage ( strength and weapon bonuses were not working )
Power attack switches on and off for no reason.

Anyway, have fun, with some half decent gear maybe we will be ... half decent as other classes.

[LupusVai]

I'd like to be able to disagree with your opinion about druids. Unfortunately you are right about the class being able to do nothing well. **** melee compared to melee class, awful healing compared to cleric/fvs and bad over expensive AP enhancement wizard/sorc style spell casting with a very low spell point pool. (yeah i get that that's the trade off for being a jack of all trades. But they're just really bad at everything, not just , not so good as class x at this or that.) I'm quite surprised that as a paid for class they are really so bugged and pretty poor. ( I guess that one blow to the pay 2 win nay Sayers we see from time to time)

There are so many bugs with druids right now its not even funny and even fixed they'll still be gimped.

A couple of points though.

The wolf trip goes of wisdom rather than strength which is why you would be seeing better results from standard trip on a strength based character.

The monk past life and anything that functions (garments of equilibrium) like that is broken with druids and has been from beta.

Haven't tried vorpals yet but one of the many bugs with druids is that often changing form seems to stop some items from working properly. noticed this with low level screaming of bleed weapon, where by the screaming and bleed wouldn't work until i re-equipped the weapon after each form change. Same for my potency ring.

So far, from beta play time and on live. I can only agree with the statement fun to play (If you can ignore the many bugs that have made it through from beta despite reported) but it can't bring anything to the party that another class doesn't do much better. This is why you won't see any of the power gamers ever playing druids. (apart from rushing through it to get their completion titles back)

On a positive side though Rangers are no longer the red headed step child and are likely to be a better choice for your 12th raid spot than a druid. ;-)

[deahamlet]

One of the top power gamers on Orien is making a multiclass Druid melee for his final life completionist. So there is that.

Druids are bugged but those will hopefully be fixed. Don't get me wrong they should be ashamed releasing with so many bugs but you cannot claim gimp when most complaints stem from bugs.

[LupusVai]

One of the top power gamers on Orien is making a multiclass Druid melee for his final life completionist. So there is that.

Druids are bugged but those will hopefully be fixed. Don't get me wrong they should be ashamed releasing with so many bugs but you cannot claim gimp when most complaints stem from bugs.

Bugs aside they are gimped. Even when fixed they'll still be poor substitute for another class that can do the job better. Again i stress i know they are a jack of all trades, but they really bring nothing. (apart from a cool bear dance ofc)

Let me quantify my statement, I hardly consider a splash of druid to be proof of their usefulness. When players like the revenants starts re-rolling their toons as druids (to stay as druids) then i'll take it seriously. The guys who's goal it is to make the most powerful toons they can and to beat raid completion times. Other players who spend all their time complaining about how easy the game is etc. By power gamers i mean power gamers not just people who play a lot.

[riexau]

Alright, I'll bite.

Please take 2 levels of monk for evasion and a starting Dex of 14+ , you will need this to survive.

Wait what? Burn 6 stat points for 3 more reflex save and AC? 3/4 of spells don't even have a reflex save, and AC is worthless. Unless you're trying to meet a req for TWF (which doesn't work while shapeshifted) or IPS (which doesn't work while shapeshifted) you shouldn't be touching DEX. Put those points into CON.

If your going melee Druid, max out strength go Half orc ~ they get the largest forms.

Someone has been reading too many 'size matters, all natural druid enhancement' emails.

Half Orc Druid, maxed out strength = target dummy damage ( if your power attacks not broken ) about 50-60/hit
In dungeon runs your damage if it has not been gimped out by DR hit for about 30/swing ~ broken ?

The dummy was helpless.

I wonder if I just got trolled? If so, kudos.

As for 16+ druids. 16-17 druids will hit a lull, but 18-20 melee druids will bbqpwn all non-Amrath content.

[Spartywinz]

almost done with druid to get back completionist feat, did a caster build and absolutely hate it, my least favorite life ever. Altho they do excel at killing single target fire based mob Quench > greater cold dot.

3 good things from druid bulleted:
- Can kill fire based enemies single target really well
- earthquake is an awesome CC spell on mobs that it affects
- later levels - stacking mass regen and mass vigor is a nice buffer for high incoming dmg quests (read zerging elite amrath) to ease the strain on main healer.

none of those reasons is worth actually playing an end game caster druid for imo.

I think something is borked with call lighting storm, like its trying to add caster levels even tho that spell has no increase in dmg from additional caster levels.

TR buddy did a melee build 12 monk/8 druid and he loved his, the druids roar ability (13d6 sonic dmg pbae when you kill a mob) on well built melee combined with sneak attack dmg from winter wolf and stunning fist was a nice combo.

[LupusVai]

Alright, I'll bite.



Wait what? Burn 6 stat points for 3 more reflex save and AC? 3/4 of spells don't even have a reflex save, and AC is worthless. Unless you're trying to meet a req for TWF (which doesn't work while shapeshifted) or IPS (which doesn't work while shapeshifted) you shouldn't be touching DEX. Put those points into CON.



Someone has been reading too many 'size matters, all natural druid enhancement' emails.

Lol size matters, all natural druid enhancement. Made me chuckle.

2 levels of monk are pretty good for, the stances, the two extra feats. Stunning fist can be pretty good on a wisdom build. Water stance makes up a bit for missing out on capstone wisdom plus bonus saves. A little bit of dodge bonus. Ac bonus is not too bad either now that even a modest AC can mean getting missed sometimes. (see the AC changes that have been implemented.

As you say not entirely sure how useful evasion will be at end game, haven't done the maths but i'm guessing around 30 reflex save with GH and so on. I guess you may make a few saves with a 30?

I wasn't entirely sure myself on the whole monk splash thing but you don't really loose much from not staying pure.

[LupusVai]

almost done with druid to get back completionist feat, did a caster build and absolutely hate it, my least favorite life ever. Altho they do excel at killing single target fire based mob Quench > greater cold dot.



I think something is borked with call lighting storm, like its trying to add caster levels even tho that spell has no increase in dmg from additional caster levels.

Call lightning storm was actually ok for about 5 days during beta. At one point it had a duration based on level and could be extended. Which made it (even though it procing hit and miss) a nice buff to have running as you did your thing. Now with a 30 second duration and a month long casting time its not worth the spell slot imo.

[Spartywinz]

Call lightning storm was actually ok for about 5 days during beta. At one point it had a duration based on level and could be extended. Which made it (even though it procing hit and miss) a nice buff to have running as you did your thing. Now with a 30 second duration and a month long casting time its not worth the spell slot imo.

Getting 3 seconds/ caster level increase for 60 second duration at 20 currently. Still its buggy and not worth it at the moment.

[Dolphious]

I'm not surprised that a "all I do is melee" druid is gimp, an "all I do is melee" fvs or clonk is pretty gimp also. You've got a decent DoT (though probably worst one), persistent AoEs, and plenty of healing for yourself and enough other-healing to really help out a main healer. If you have all those abilities and aren't using them, you've got to expect to be under-performing. You just can't expect to have barbarian level DPS with all those other tools available.

There's also a lot of weirdness in how melee druids in animal forms work that might be leading people to gimp their builds because we just don't know what works and what doesn't. Not to mention straight-up bugs (like monk past life).

Ultimately I think we find out all the things that work for a druid in form (ToD rings, die-steps), gear them appropriately (are people making good use of their off-hand slot), and play them effectively (using melee and spells), the class has a lot of potential.

I do agree that in it's current state it's not going to be a popular class with end game min-max raiders. But hopefully Turbine still plans to put some more work into the class to make it both more effective and easier to understand what works and how.

[threefeetunder]

Lol size matters, all natural druid enhancement. Made me chuckle.

2 levels of monk are pretty good for, the stances, the two extra feats. Stunning fist can be pretty good on a wisdom build. Water stance makes up a bit for missing out on capstone wisdom plus bonus saves. A little bit of dodge bonus. Ac bonus is not too bad either now that even a modest AC can mean getting missed sometimes. (see the AC changes that have been implemented.

As you say not entirely sure how useful evasion will be at end game, haven't done the maths but i'm guessing around 30 reflex save with GH and so on. I guess you may make a few saves with a 30?

I wasn't entirely sure myself on the whole monk splash thing but you don't really loose much from not staying pure.

You lose 2d6 sneak attack (and ppr if bear form) and the reduction in spell cooldown from the melee druid capstone (which, incidentally, doesn't include 2 wis), which isn't nothing.
Being in stance and using stunning fist would mean not being able to use shields and enjoy the significant doublestrike it can offer (8% from feats, 9% from unyielding sentinel shield enhancements, 6% (or 3% if you wear epic hand or some 3% doublestrike gloves) from shield itself (alchemical or epic swashbuckler, for a total of 23% doublestrike.

Monk splash is a decent option, but hardly a must.

[LupusVai]

You lose 2d6 sneak attack (and ppr if bear form) and the reduction in spell cooldown from the melee druid capstone (which, incidentally, doesn't include 2 wis), which isn't nothing.
Being in stance and using stunning fist would mean not being able to use shields and enjoy the significant doublestrike it can offer (8% from feats, 9% from unyielding sentinel shield enhancements, 6% (or 3% if you wear epic hand or some 3% doublestrike gloves) from shield itself (alchemical or epic swashbuckler, for a total of 23% doublestrike.

Monk splash is a decent option, but hardly a must.

There are always trade off's when you splash. My point was though that a monk splash does have benefits and wasn't useless. I get what you're saying about the double strike stuff and its a good point. But that's an extra 2 feats you need to find on a feat starved class. Going that path 2 levels of fighter would be a better splash imo if you wanted that. (and i think still better than going pure...maybe)

Yep, was aware that +2 wisdom was only one of the capstones. (felt certain if i didn't mention the +2 wisdom capstone though someone would be bound to say ah but you loose the +2 wisdom capstone if you splash. Goes to show you cant win .. lol)

[Diyon]

You lose 2d6 sneak attack (and ppr if bear form) and the reduction in spell cooldown from the melee druid capstone (which, incidentally, doesn't include 2 wis), which isn't nothing.
Being in stance and using stunning fist would mean not being able to use shields and enjoy the significant doublestrike it can offer (8% from feats, 9% from unyielding sentinel shield enhancements, 6% (or 3% if you wear epic hand or some 3% doublestrike gloves) from shield itself (alchemical or epic swashbuckler, for a total of 23% doublestrike.

Monk splash is a decent option, but hardly a must.

You forgot the 18% from 3 Natural Fighting feats, so 41% doublestrike. Throw in a twisted hail of blows from GM for another 3% fro 44%.

[threefeetunder]

You forgot the 18% from 3 Natural Fighting feats, so 41% doublestrike. Throw in a twisted hail of blows from GM for another 3% fro 44%.

Aye, but those you can get regardless of whether you're wearing a shield or not (if you want to see max, you could add another 3% from shadowdancer innate 4, 5% from inspire recklessness warchanter song, 5% from alchemical bracers proc, and 50% from the celerity enhancement, for a total of 107% doublestrike)

[Diyon]

Aye, but those you can get regardless of whether you're wearing a shield or not (if you want to see max, you could add another 3% from shadowdancer innate 4, 5% from inspire recklessness warchanter song, 5% from alchemical bracers proc, and 50% from the celerity enhancement, for a total of 107% doublestrike)

Well, you included the stuff from gear, you can get that 6% with or without a shield too. I would just be counting passive constant stuff here, so make that 47%. =P

[~Big_Germ]

almost done with druid to get back completionist feat, did a caster build and absolutely hate it, my least favorite life ever. Altho they do excel at killing single target fire based mob Quench > greater cold dot.

3 good things from druid bulleted:
- Can kill fire based enemies single target really well
- earthquake is an awesome CC spell on mobs that it affects
- later levels - stacking mass regen and mass vigor is a nice buffer for high incoming dmg quests (read zerging elite amrath) to ease the strain on main healer.

none of those reasons is worth actually playing an end game caster druid for imo.

I think something is borked with call lighting storm, like its trying to add caster levels even tho that spell has no increase in dmg from additional caster levels.

TR buddy did a melee build 12 monk/8 druid and he loved his, the druids roar ability (13d6 sonic dmg pbae when you kill a mob) on well built melee combined with sneak attack dmg from winter wolf and stunning fist was a nice combo.

Ive been thinking of adding 8 levels of druid myself to my H-Orc dark monk if your buddy could link his build that would be dope!

[hermespan]

You forgot the 18% from 3 Natural Fighting feats, so 41% doublestrike. Throw in a twisted hail of blows from GM for another 3% fro 44%.

And 3% more for shield mastery, if you want to give up a feat slot

[Diyon]

And 3% more for shield mastery, if you want to give up a feat slot

I believe I was counting that. And it is totally worth the feat slots. You basically get defense and dps wrapped up in two feats, and you don't lose dps for going with a shield on an animal form build. Just on my own I sit in the mid 70s AC and 51 PRR in full dps mode. Anyways:

Sustainable (self buffed):

-18 natural fighting x3
-8 Shield mastery and imp.
-6 item
-7 Legendary Shield mastery
-3 Shadow dance innate lvl4
-3 Hail of blows

=45%

Other stuff:
-5 inspire recklessness
-5 alchem from bracers
=55%

Really not sustainable:
-50 nature's warrior II (15 sec per 5 min)

=107%

Really not sure what happens when you break 100% on doublestrike. In anycase, my druid is almost at that sustainable amount. All I need is a t2 air spirit and a few more destiny levels to get a 2nd tier 2 twist.

[Chimeran1]

Bear Tank actually not too bad.
Yes the dps could be a fraction higher but it can still hold aggro most of the time.
Sure, better geared dps toons will steal aggro if they go in too hard and fast, but that goes without saying


Even took the full unyielding sentinel path. Sure, the bear is good for tanking 80% of the time.
With the Beargut build 9/8/3 , it is over 1000hp, 97ac, +45 reflex saves, it is nice but my wishlist would be for a slightly higher damage base.
Full Purple knight set bonus, max intim, good heal amp is all working sweet.

[knightgf]

There are so many bugs with druids right now its not even funny and even fixed they'll still be gimped.

Wait a minute...this sounds like another class I know of...of course! Monks have the same problem druids have, especially with handwraps!