ranged to-hit is borked

[Marupal]

Thank you for confirming there is an issue. I have been running quests feeling like I am crazy the last couple weeks with my Arty. Currently a buffed ~45 to-hit and in level ~18 content he misses consistently on trash mobs. Rolls less than 10 seem to provide odd results, and very often white "Misses". My DPS has suffered dramatically.

Yeah, I kept looking at my character wondering what I was doing wrong. Makes sense now.

[Kinerd]

We've made some progress. As some of you essentially figured out, you are definitely not getting the percentage bonus players should be getting, as if you aren't proficient with your ranged weapon. Grazing hits failing may be related to this, because you don't get grazing hits on 2+ if you aren't proficient with the weapon you are using. This might be inconsistent across weapon types or characters (bows, crossbows, throwing, etc.)

We're don't have a full fix in hand for this yet, so no ETA yet.

Does this imply that ranged to-hit and melee to-hit are calculated with completely different systems? That seems unnecessarily prone to exactly these kinds of problems.

[Vargouille]

Does this imply that ranged to-hit and melee to-hit are calculated with completely different systems? That seems unnecessarily prone to exactly these kinds of problems.

Not really, except where necessary. Ranged combat creates projectiles, and that's where some issues crop up. You never actually hit enemies with your bow. You spawn a new item that exists for a very short period of time but which needs to know all about the stuff on you and your bow in order to work properly. In short, you and your bow usually have all the bonuses. It's those darn bolts and arrows that betray you!

In better news, we've fixed the missing +20% attack bonus internally. We're investigating the lack of grazing hits.

[ZeebaNeighba]

We've made some progress. As some of you essentially figured out, you are definitely not getting the percentage bonus players should be getting, as if you aren't proficient with your ranged weapon. Grazing hits failing may be related to this, because you don't get grazing hits on 2+ if you aren't proficient with the weapon you are using. This might be inconsistent across weapon types or characters (bows, crossbows, throwing, etc.)

We're don't have a full fix in hand for this yet, so no ETA yet.

Maybe it's a problem with me then? Like mechanic isn't granting the real proficiency feat for my repeaters, it's just an enhancement, so I haven't gotten the grazes/attack bonus that I should?

[Lithic]

Not really, except where necessary. Ranged combat creates projectiles, and that's where some issues crop up. You never actually hit enemies with your bow. You spawn a new item that exists for a very short period of time but which needs to know all about the stuff on you and your bow in order to work properly. In short, you and your bow usually have all the bonuses. It's those darn bolts and arrows that betray you!

In better news, we've fixed the missing +20% attack bonus internally. We're investigating the lack of grazing hits.

Shouldn't that be +25% for proficiency like melee? Or are both supposed to be +20%?

[Meretrix]

Maybe it's a problem with me then? Like mechanic isn't granting the real proficiency feat for my repeaters, it's just an enhancement, so I haven't gotten the grazes/attack bonus that I should?

It's not just you

[Systern]

Another thing I've noticed, the animation seems to lag. Kite two mobs, fire an arrow at target A, move reticle to target B and notice that auto target does acquire the new target. You reload, you fire a second shot... at Target A again....

Some times Target B is in fact hit, some times Target A gets hit a second time, some times it's just a whiff - not even a die roll. Spells are timely, so it doesn't feel like your Normal Everyday Omnipresent Lag.

Kiting is hard now...

[bbqzor]

Ranged combat creates projectiles, and that's where some issues crop up. You never actually hit enemies with your bow. You spawn a new item that exists for a very short period of time but which needs to know all about the stuff on you and your bow in order to work properly. In short, you and your bow usually have all the bonuses. It's those darn bolts and arrows that betray you!

Just a quick shout out while you appear to be in there mucking about... the Artificer Battle Engineer Enhancement, as well as their Enchant Weapon buff, both apply only to the weapon atm. This creates potential problems with ranged projectile weapons, since they're supposed to compare the weapon and the ammunition.

Quick example, equip a +1 crossbow, equip conjured +6 bolts, select Battle Engineer PrE and cast Enchant Weapon on yourself. You're now using a +4 bow and +6 arrows, which just defaults to +6.

It would be preferable, and make more sense since you equip/wield both of them, for the bonuses to apply to the bow and the arrow, or apply after comparing which enhancement to use. (ie, the above example would yield +9).

I believe this technology already exists in part, because an Unyielding Sentinel, stanced and using the enhancements, can apply True Law, True Chaos, Pure Good, etc to any equipped arrows. This is exactly the mechanic that should go into the artificer stuff as well.

There is no harm in having it hit both the weapon and the projectile, because when it compares the two, like mods wont stack, so you wont get 2d6 for True Law as an example, just 1d6 since it can't double up.

What you will get is, properly scaling Enhancement Bonuses to the weapon itself, which makes summoning +6 bolts, equipping high enhancement bows, and other similar conditions actually matter; rather than just using +6 or +8 virtually 99.9% of the time because of how they (don't) stack. Thanks.

[Rawel_San]

Shouldn't that be +25% for proficiency like melee? Or are both supposed to be +20%?

I think you always got the 5% proficiency for hitting on 20 just fixing the extra 20%.

[ZeebaNeighba]

It's not just you

(Combat): You attack Tiefling Spellthrower. You roll a 2 (+46): you miss! on the ranger I dug out. Not limited to crossbows either. Oddly, my mechanic was missing about half the time in gianthold walkup elites, and my ranger about 10-15% of the time in shavarath slayers with an attack bonus only about 2 higher, and at the same level. I wouldn't expect such a big difference, although I know slayer mobs are generally easier than quest mobs of the same level even on normal (and quests on normal are much easier than quests on elite 2 levels lower, even though the xp penalties and loot levels are the same and stuff).

[jakeelala]

Not sure of this is related: I made a +0 gt repeater of undead bane for my arty. With battle engineer and +4 conjured bolts I get 0's against wraiths for damage (dr/magic I'm assuming). I put +1 enchantment shard on it...bingo full damage numbers.

BE and conjured bolts enchant are not applying for DR, maybe they're not applying to hit either, even though it looks like they are.

Food for thought.

[Postumus]

This explains a lot. I was wondering why I was getting so many grazes with manyshot these days.

[MrkGrismer]

Not really, except where necessary. Ranged combat creates projectiles, and that's where some issues crop up. You never actually hit enemies with your bow. You spawn a new item that exists for a very short period of time but which needs to know all about the stuff on you and your bow in order to work properly. In short, you and your bow usually have all the bonuses. It's those darn bolts and arrows that betray you!

In better news, we've fixed the missing +20% attack bonus internally. We're investigating the lack of grazing hits.

While you are in there you might want to check to see why Healing Hirelings don't seem to 'get the word' when you or a party member are injured by a projectile.

[Cyr]

Not really, except where necessary. Ranged combat creates projectiles, and that's where some issues crop up. You never actually hit enemies with your bow. You spawn a new item that exists for a very short period of time but which needs to know all about the stuff on you and your bow in order to work properly. In short, you and your bow usually have all the bonuses. It's those darn bolts and arrows that betray you!

In better news, we've fixed the missing +20% attack bonus internally. We're investigating the lack of grazing hits.

+25%...

Also make sure that all the rest of the base % bonuses are applying from the various feats.

[Cyr]

I think you always got the 5% proficiency for hitting on 20 just fixing the extra 20%.

Nope does not work like that.

Basically the extra +5% we are talking about here increases the bottom end as follows...

Chance to Hit = Attack Bonus/AC*2 + 25% (if prof) + Any feat related bonuses such as precision

So let's say we have an equal Attack bonus to a mob AC and are proficient...we have a 75% chance to hit.

Then we roll a d20 and convert that to percent (each number is 5%). So you hit on a 6 or higher.

If you add another 5% bonus to hit from a feat like precision you then hit on a 5 or higher.

Hope that clears things up for you.

[katz]

In better news, we've fixed the missing +20% attack bonus internally. We're investigating the lack of grazing hits.

thanks for the update

[Vargouille]

Shouldn't that be +25% for proficiency like melee? Or are both supposed to be +20%?

Both are 20%. There may have been a miscommunication about this number at some point during beta, but it's been 20% since U14 went live and before then.

[Postumus]

Both are 20%. There may have been a miscommunication about this number at some point during beta, but it's been 20% since U14 went live and before then.

Thanks for confirming this.

I missed that change. Apparently so did most of the to hit threads I read.

[Archangel666]

Both are 20%. There may have been a miscommunication about this number at some point during beta, but it's been 20% since U14 went live and before then.

Please, for the love of all things unholy, get this fixed and in a patch ASAP.

I'm not using hyperbole when I say that as it currently stands it's unplayable. I tried running through the forest and Imposible Demands and Unquiet Graves on Normal and I gave up in frustration. I was missing on a bloody 7! Nearly half of my attacks do absolutely nothing! I was hitting almost everything on a 2 before you changed all this.

[Cyr]

Both are 20%. There may have been a miscommunication about this number at some point during beta, but it's been 20% since U14 went live and before then.

This is the first I have read that and I am a pretty vigilant forum reader.

That is a major change as it means 5% less hits for melee/ranged builds.