ranged to-hit is borked

[apep1412]

Not the only issue. A lot of shots heading for the ceiling instead of the target when line of site from player or from toon is blocked is also an issue in my opinion.

I meant related to the to-hit issue. I'm not going to try to list out the issues ranged combat has in other areas.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Wow..

I posted this in beta several times.

Can't believe it's still not figured out. It's not that hard to test.

The NEW combat system was implemented for ranged. (Lots of "grazes" on 2-9 versus high AC monsters, as intended)

It is NOT implemented for melee.
(No grazing hits below rolls of 10, hard MISS on a 2-9, hit more often then ranged)

Simple as that.

IMO the solution to this is to disable it for ranged too. No one asked "could we please miss nearly everything on a roll of 2-4 even on our high to hit character"? They asked for a new AC system for players. It doesn't need to apply to monsters.

The new system will ensure even the best to hit chars will only graze on a 2-4 versus certain high AC monsters. Thats not fun.

So you can go back to always hit on a 2 even with barbarian power attack enhancements, yep, no ulterior motive here.

Personally I like the change when it works WAI, it makes AB worthwhile to a certain point and provides alternatives to power attack (precision).

[sephiroth1084]

So you can go back to always hit on a 2 even with barbarian power attack enhancements, yep, no ulterior motive here.

Personally I like the change when it works WAI, it makes AB worthwhile to a certain point and provides alternatives to power attack (precision).

It also makes taking Shot on the Run or Spring Attack something to consider once more.

I'm planning on taking the former on my monkcher...unless I screwed up my feat order and can't swap to Mobility easily.

[slarden]

I posted this on another thread which is based on very limited testing:

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I saw this and got nervous. I just tested with my ranged toon that has 3 past ranger lives and only a 32 dex. With limited testing in house c manufactory, I didn't see many grazing hits. while scrolling through the combat tab I found this:

You attack Bladesworn Assassin. You roll a 2 (+66): you hit!
You attack Wrack: You roll a 2 (+67): you grazing hit!

So the thought that any roll below a certain # is a grazing hit is definitely wrong - at least for bow users with my gear/spec combo. There is either some combination of gear/feats/enhancements/destinies causing this or it has to do with attack bonus vs. AC and is the result of recent changes.

[donblas]

I meant related to the to-hit issue. I'm not going to try to list out the issues ranged combat has in other areas.

Ah I understand. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[wax_on_wax_off]

It also makes taking Shot on the Run or Spring Attack something to consider once more.

I'm planning on taking the former on my monkcher...unless I screwed up my feat order and can't swap to Mobility easily.

I saw a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer build which gives:
Feats (by level): Point Blank Shot (1), (3), Precision (6), Weapon Focus: Ranged (9), Improved Critical: Ranged (12), Improved Precise Shot (15), (18)
Feats (monk): Toughness (8), Zen Archery (9), Stunning Fist (13)

You're dropping Stunning Fist, skipping any other melee feats and don't have any worthwhile past life feats? With precision you just need to hit a 60% hit rate before adjustments to get 95% hit rate (with +25% prof, +5% PBS and +5% precision).

Yes, if you are under 60% hit rate then Shot on the Run will help get you that last little bit but overall I'm not sure that it's worthwhile. That said, I have noticed while leveling that Shot on the Run would make a difference but I'd take take other feats (particularly stunning fist) any day of the week.

It does occur to me having thought about this that contrary to the doom reports that AB boosts won't matter because of diminishing returns at the top of the curve that in fact they will as the curve at 60-70% is still quite steep and you only need to get to this to hit the 90-95% hit rate once you include proficiency and relevant feats.

[apep1412]

Ah I understand. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I probably misworded that last post a bit. My intended meaning was something like: 'Hahaha, very true'.

[sephiroth1084]

I saw a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer build which gives:
Feats (by level): Point Blank Shot (1), (3), Precision (6), Weapon Focus: Ranged (9), Improved Critical: Ranged (12), Improved Precise Shot (15), (18)
Feats (monk): Toughness (8), Zen Archery (9), Stunning Fist (13)

You're dropping Stunning Fist, skipping any other melee feats and don't have any worthwhile past life feats? With precision you just need to hit a 60% hit rate before adjustments to get 95% hit rate (with +25% prof, +5% PBS and +5% precision).

If the goal is to be an archer 100% of the time, I don't need, or want, melee feats, even Stunning Blow, which is very good. I have a monk for that. Dodge comes in to pick up Ninja Spy II, then there are two feats left. If not melee feats, what would you take? I was thinking Mobility and SotR, but it could be Quick Draw and another Toughness, or Extend, or...I don't know.

Yes, if you are under 60% hit rate then Shot on the Run will help get you that last little bit but overall I'm not sure that it's worthwhile. That said, I have noticed while leveling that Shot on the Run would make a difference but I'd take take other feats (particularly stunning fist) any day of the week.

It does occur to me having thought about this that contrary to the doom reports that AB boosts won't matter because of diminishing returns at the top of the curve that in fact they will as the curve at 60-70% is still quite steep and you only need to get to this to hit the 90-95% hit rate once you include proficiency and relevant feats.

Which is a strong case against picking up SotR, but I've been noticing plenty of misses while leveling, even with decent gear, and even while standing still (Precision is active all the time).

Not too sure what all the to-hit stuff will work out to at end game.

[MRMechMan]

(Combat): You attack Huul Eyx. You roll a 6 (+15): you grazing hit!

Korthos. Large augment heavy repeater. Training dummy ship buff, dex ship buff. 20 dex total. Goggles of insight.

Something is very off.

[Kinerd]

Finally got some time to test this. It does seem that the only issue with ranged weapons is that they are not applying their proficiency bonus to chance to hit (from what I can tell).

The reason Shade assumed that the new system was not implemented (no grazing hits) is that grazing hits don't seem to appear while in some combat stances, while meleeing. I've only had the chance to test power attack, so far.

Great job, great insight, +1. Can't wait for the devs to implement a fix in around 2014.

[MRMechMan]

Even better...fire 3 shots off in hard info is key...

(Combat): You attack Human Smuggler. You roll a 6 (+15): you grazing hit!

(Combat): You attack Human Smuggler. You roll a 5 (+15): you grazing hit!

(Combat): You attack Human Smuggler. You roll a 6 (+20): you grazing hit!

I mean....really.

With a freakin large augment repeater?

[PsychoBlonde]

Grazing hits with me seem to come and go at random

I hit everything that I know of on a 2 so its a bit strange especially when you hit something then seconds later get a grazing hit on a better roll

Yes, this pretty much describes my situation perfectly. It's become exceedingly frustrating. I've been leveling my AA ranger/monk since the day after the update, and I've pretty much found I have to do this:

1. Can't hit *anything* if you're moving sideways relative to them. EVERY attack regardless of roll will be a graze. I've run through an entire manyshot sequence and not hit ONCE. And that's when it's going well--half the time it can't seem to reconcile where I am versus where they are so I don't even get the roll, I'll be firing and firing and firing at an enemy that's dead center right in front of me and it's not even CHECKING to see if I hit.
2. If I'm backing, slowly, directly away from them, I graze about 50% of the time.
3. If I hold ABSOLUTELY STILL and wait AT LEAST 10 seconds for the system to apparently realize that I'm standing still, I'll start hitting on anything that's not a 1, just like I'm shooting the training dummy. Assuming the mob doesn't sidle left or right AT ALL. Which they all do. Constantly. Because they keep trying to stand on top of you instead of stopping when they reach melee range.

This is the game and servers doing something funky. It is not my computer. It is not our ISP--my housemate and I can fire up all three computers at once running Diablo III or World of Warcraft OR SW:TOR or all 3 at the same time and never have latency issues or lag or anything. I turn the other two off and run DDO on my machine with a ranged character and it all goes to pot.

[donblas]

I probably misworded that last post a bit. My intended meaning was something like: 'Hahaha, very true'.

I understand - it's hard to get the tone of a comment from the typed word.

I know I annoy people sometimes when if they had heard how i said it there would have been no problem.

[ainmosni]

We'll look into this. It's not entirely clear what's going on. I personally saw myself hitting with a crossbow when rolling a 2 sometimes in the past 24 hours (with live characters).

i want to make a 'devs dont play ddo' joke but im not creative enough.

[ZeebaNeighba]

We did change grazing hits to happen on any roll of 2+ when you would normally miss, both for melee and ranged combat.

Now even that isn't happening on ranged, since the patch.

[Vargouille]

We've made some progress. As some of you essentially figured out, you are definitely not getting the percentage bonus players should be getting, as if you aren't proficient with your ranged weapon. Grazing hits failing may be related to this, because you don't get grazing hits on 2+ if you aren't proficient with the weapon you are using. This might be inconsistent across weapon types or characters (bows, crossbows, throwing, etc.)

We're don't have a full fix in hand for this yet, so no ETA yet.

[Dandonk]

We've made some progress. As some of you essentially figured out, you are definitely not getting the percentage bonus players should be getting, as if you aren't proficient with your ranged weapon. Grazing hits failing may be related to this, because you don't get grazing hits on 2+ if you aren't proficient with the weapon you are using. This might be inconsistent across weapon types or characters (bows, crossbows, throwing, etc.)

We're don't have a full fix in hand for this yet, so no ETA yet.

Feel free to remove this abomination of a non-d20 system. It's OK. We won't blame you if you think better of it not. There are other and better ways to fix AC than to break it, and to hit, in entirely new ways.

Please?

[Alundaar]

i was testing on the cr 22 gaurds (in city of portals) with ranged first i was running and trying to get my to-hit bonus as low as i could while conferming a hit and i got one on 13 + 42 next i stood still and pumped up my to-hit shooting and missed with 5 + 54

[mrtweakin]

We've made some progress. As some of you essentially figured out, you are definitely not getting the percentage bonus players should be getting, as if you aren't proficient with your ranged weapon. Grazing hits failing may be related to this, because you don't get grazing hits on 2+ if you aren't proficient with the weapon you are using. This might be inconsistent across weapon types or characters (bows, crossbows, throwing, etc.)

We're don't have a full fix in hand for this yet, so no ETA yet.

Thank you for confirming there is an issue. I have been running quests feeling like I am crazy the last couple weeks with my Arty. Currently a buffed ~45 to-hit and in level ~18 content he misses consistently on trash mobs. Rolls less than 10 seem to provide odd results, and very often white "Misses". My DPS has suffered dramatically.

[jakeelala]

We've made some progress. As some of you essentially figured out, you are definitely not getting the percentage bonus players should be getting, as if you aren't proficient with your ranged weapon. Grazing hits failing may be related to this, because you don't get grazing hits on 2+ if you aren't proficient with the weapon you are using. This might be inconsistent across weapon types or characters (bows, crossbows, throwing, etc.)

We're don't have a full fix in hand for this yet, so no ETA yet.

This is insane.