What to do about rogue moving into epic levels?

[sephiroth1084]

Update w/more queries.

So, I'm looking at some of the new items from the MotU content, and wondering where I can slot/move any of my existing gear.

Right now I've got:
Eyes: Tinker's Goggles (+6 Int, Treason--do we know if this stacks with -20% reducers on items?--Disable Device +15 essentially, set bonus)
Head: Minos Legens -- this needs to get replaced somehow
Neck: Shintao Cord/Golden Guile (would love to epic this, but haven't been seeing seals or shards dropping at all lately)
Trinket: Epic Treasurehunter's Spyglass (+2 Int, +20 Spot, +20 Search, +3 enhancement UMD)
Shoulders: Radiance II greensteal clock +45 HP, Radiance Guard
Waist: Assassin belt (+6 Con, Proof Against Poison +6, set bonus for -20% threat and chance at Enervation on sneak attacks)
Hands: Tinker's Gloves (Dex +6, Exceptional Seeker +2, Open Lock +15, set bonus for SA +5 and True Seeing)
Feet: Boots of Propulsion
Wrists: Levik's Bracers (+6 Str, +20% Healing Amp)
Body: Black Dragon leathers/Epic Vuloorim Fighting Leathers
Ring 1: Assassin w/ +2 Str
Ring 2: Kyosho's w/ +2 Con

Basically, I'm wondering how I can upgrade some of my slots, while still maintaining the important effects I'm wearing. I'd prefer to have at least +6 Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wish on full-time (I like to Assassinate a lot, and have been using the Int-based Shadow Dancer abilities to good effect) and have poor enough saves without also losing stats there. Not sure there is anything that can replace +6 Int, +6 Dex, +5 SA, TS across 2 slots sufficiently. Also, would like to be able to get a Resist item in there somewhere, but again, not sure where that could go.

Ideas?
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So, I have a Str-based halfling Assassin who should probably be picking up both Precision and 2x Improved Sneak Attack with my epic feats, but which feats to keep? And how to adjust ability scores?

Right now I have:
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Improved Critical: Piercing
Power Attack
Sneak of Shadows (Rogue PL)
Toughness

And
Str 15
Dex 16
Con 15
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 9

I could start Dex at 16 and spend 3 level-ups plus a +2 tome to hit the requisite 21 Dex Dex, or hope for a +3 tome and 2 level-ups, or could go Dex-based, but that would mean sacrificing another feat to Weapon Finesse.

Which feats would you drop? Would you take Improved SA only once in order to fit back in one of the heroic feats you're having trouble fitting? How would you adjust your stats?

[.Revenga.]

Loosing another feat to weapon finesse is just a painful and a waste imo, i think we can agree there :-p

As a halfling i think you don't have a choice but to sacrifice one of your epic feats for precision, choosing between the two might be a harder choice, i'm doing some calc now but my feeling is that precision will net you more dps overall. One option is to drop PA, at high AC content -5 AB is about 2-3% extra hit chance, but loosing +5 base damage hurts quite a bit.

Then, if you're only getting one epic SA feat, getting the req 21dex might not be worth it anyway (esp with only +2 dex tome), khopesh prof (or rogue PL) are probably better choices.

I'd say farm some epic elite quests in the web to get a tasty +4 dex tome, or TR into the master race that human is ( yes i'm biased here and actually you shouldnt until the enhancement update is out :-p)

Edit: Seems like you're right about precision being a no brainer, it adds 6+ damage on a regular sneak attack for a not very specially geared lvl 25 rogue assasin shadowdancer, and it only increases as damage goes up by buffs and gear. The fort bypass is just extra.

[shadereaper33]

keep in mind that precision and power attack are both offensive stances, so you can only have one active at a time. Personally, I dropped power attack in favor of precision on my rogue, and I am enjoying it quite a bit.

[karl_k0ch]

The main argument against PA is that it might decrease your to to-hit, but then, unless something was changed, we are supposed to get glancing blows which still apply SA damage.

For my halfling, the SA damage looks like this, not including the situational bonus of the SoS clickie:
10d6 rogue
4d6 capstone
3d6 assassin
6d6 (or only 5?) shadowdancer
3d6 1x ISA
12 enhancement
8 item
1 past life
6 halfling
----
118 average SA damage.

Even if the mob has only 5% fortification left after all the debuffs, precision will grant more than 5 damage per hit.
Precision will not increase the sneak attack damage against 0% fort mobs, but the +5% to hit will be helpful still.


My plan for meinir is the following, and will be done when I get my hands on a +3 dex or +4 dex tome:

14 str
18 dex
14 con
15 int
8 wis
8 cha

With a Litany, and all the +skills bonuses, this will grant HPs in the lower 500s and a standing UMD of 40. I estimate the assassinate dc to be at 46-48.

The planned feats are:

Toughness
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
PL:SoS
IC: Pierce*
Precision
ISA
Hamstring (?)


*I also considered IC: Slash here to improve EMG, going with Scimitars instead of rapiers. The proficiency would be granted via Master's Touch and/or a dual-boxed elven Cleric.

[destiny4405]

16/18/15/10/8/8 planned for mine. got +3 dex tome, so enough for ISA. for feats, i guess there is no point in having PA and precision. might not be doing anything on 0% fort, but with precision i'll have 60% fort bypass, which is huge.

[DnD3]

Heard that the Improved Sneak attack feat got changed so you cannot take it twice just before the beta ended, in fact last I checked description on live it did not state anywhere you can take it twice unlike some other feats. Can anyone confirm that you actually take it twice on live? Every 25 rogue i ask don't seem to have a +3 dex tome LOL..

[sephiroth1084]

Heard that the Improved Sneak attack feat got changed so you cannot take it twice just before the beta ended, in fact last I checked description on live it did not state anywhere you can take it twice unlike some other feats. Can anyone confirm that you actually take it twice on live? Every 25 rogue i ask don't seem to have a +3 dex tome LOL..

If that's true, I'll either take Power Attack at 24 or a second Toughness, and when I eventually TR again, I'll probably go Finesse and put off one of the Heroic feats until then.

[DnD3]

If that's true, I'll either take Power Attack at 24 or a second Toughness, and when I eventually TR again, I'll probably go Finesse and put off one of the Heroic feats until then.

If you or anyone can find a 25 Rogue on your server, please ask him if you can take ISA twice, on my server it seems eppic rogues are in danger of extinction. Actually I might do a server hop and see if someone on other servers can answer this question.

[DnD3]

If you or anyone can find a 25 Rogue on your server, please ask him if you can take ISA twice, on my server it seems eppic rogues are in danger of extinction. Actually I might do a server hop and see if someone on other servers can answer this question.

Yup, Improved Sneak attack cannot be taken more than once. Finally found a 25 rogue that had the require dex and he confirmed that you cannot choose it twice.

[Qezuzu]

Yup, Improved Sneak attack cannot be taken more than once. Finally found a 25 rogue that had the require dex and he confirmed that you cannot choose it twice.

Also, confirming, as someone with a lvl25 rogue.

ISA can only be taken once.
ISA is currently broken and does nothing.
The Deadly Shadows capstone is currently broken and does nothing but give +2 INT.
The Shadowdancer SA bonus is +6d6 and is working.

[SSFWEl]

Also, confirming, as someone with a lvl25 rogue.


ISA is currently broken and does nothing.

Nuts I already took it

Hmm I still have a free feat exchange...

[Rauven]

Nuts I already took it

Hmm I still have a free feat exchange...

Fred is broken.

I think I'm starting to notice a theme here.

[DDOGoz]

Does Precision allow SA on monsters that used to be immune (like undead and golems) the same way that Opportunist does?

[karl_k0ch]

Does Precision allow SA on monsters that used to be immune (like undead and golems) the same way that Opportunist does?

Opportunist does not allow to apply Sneak Attack damage to undead.

[sephiroth1084]

Does Precision allow SA on monsters that used to be immune (like undead and golems) the same way that Opportunist does?

Well, with Opportunist, Precision and Armor Piercing 10%, I'm seeing SA on the training dummy, and I think I've seen some pop up on undead and golems in Epic VoN 5, but I wasn't really paying close attention.

[Blank_Zero]

Fred is broken.

I think I'm starting to notice a theme here.

Fred works fine unless they've messed him up with a stealth patch. I've swapped 2 feats already through him.

[Qezuzu]

Does Precision allow SA on monsters that used to be immune (like undead and golems) the same way that Opportunist does?

Some golems, undead, and elementals will take SA damage if you can bypass fort. Some will not.

The Shadowdancer innate capstone ability lets you outright remove any immunity they have, though, but you still need to penetrate their fort.

[thouston]

Fred works fine....

worked for me as well.

i havent tried Kruz the Reincarnation trainer in House Jorasco since the update

[Rauven]

Fred works fine unless they've messed him up with a stealth patch. I've swapped 2 feats already through him.

Figures Turbine couldn't be bothered to update the Known Issues list.

NEW - Fred is not currently offering feat respecs. This is something that will be re-enabled in the near future.

[jejeba86]

Also, confirming, as someone with a lvl25 rogue.

ISA can only be taken once.

I think, just think, that the intended is to be able to pick multiple (2) times, and this should be a bug.
That's the case for the monk feat, and I remember devs treating these two the same way in closed beta.