Wow you really boned warforged this update didn't you?

[Jay203]

Yeah, the WF nerfs are really sad.
Horc and Helf are the best races now (basically because they're the most recent)
Time to TR any WF characters before the devs change WF underwater action into a +10 on swim checks

you know... that just might happen if they decided to make an expansion that has heavy underwater emphasis

[Bechtinger]

Give us a LR with race Change... or a second use of the xp stone...

WF is not really getting worse than it was. Its the worst race in the game now. It can do nothing, has no benefits at all, only downsides (healing, armor). Everything else is far behind any other race, so WF are just not worth playing anymore. If you go WF on a non-caster, youre gimping yourself badly.

Question is, why should anyone pay for warforged? There's just no point...

[Vamm]

Some suggestions:

- Make body feat an autogrant at level 1: in the same way a half-elf can choose a dilettante feat at level 1, make WF choose a body feat among Composite, Mithral, Adamantine. This will offset the feat-starving for heavy armor users, especially for classes like paladins, which are already short on feats (changes pretty much nothing for arcanes).

- Either reduce the cost of the healer's friend tree to 1/2/3 or improve the granted healing amplification to 65/75/85. Cost of the full tree is awful for what it provides, and nonetheless all WF have to take it because there is no other choice.

- Give more sources of DR/PRR. Paying 12 AP for 3 DR/Adamantine is a joke. Give us instead a racial tree that gives 10/20/30 PRR, restricted to non-composite plating (so arcanes cannot get it without gimping themselves)

- Make better docents, especially for WF monks, which need some love. We need more stuff like the DoD, the quorforged docent, actually unique stuff. We need more variety, u14 released some 10 different armors, but only 2 docents.

- Get rid of construct fortification and give back the AC. WF already start at 125%, and with some equipment, get even higher.

WF are hands-down my favorite race, but with those changes, I'll be better off TRing my WF fvs into a human/helf, instead of making him a WF pally as I envisioned. Even without his DT, healing amp is still better. I believe that, if all of the abovechanges were implemented, WF would be roughly on par with other races.

I'm totally in favor of a lot of these suggestions.

- Autogrant body feat: Absolutely. Blowing a feat on what is supposed to be a 'premium' race to get armor comparable to a non-WF is a little silly.

- Healer's Friend: I'd maybe be for cost reductions, probably not amped up bonuses. I do think WF should be harder to heal...that's their weak spot. You should have to go through considerable effort to negate those weaknesses. To that end, Healer's Friend has always been broken with the small rate of return vs. point cost for the higher tiers of it.

- DR/PRR changes: Absolutely. I say ditch the DR for the adamantine plating altogether as it's now essentially an exception to the rule of how damage mitigation works in the new U14+ system. DR was converted to PRR for the Fighter Stalwart Defender stance changes. Should be the same for body plating. Make it a % so it can scale with level. Agreed that enhancements for more PRR should be available as well to amp up the base PRR (that used to be DR/Adamantine).

- More docents: Yup. In particular, a sore spot with me is that the dragontouched docent is essentially a non-starter for higher level content. And, given the effort you have to put in to make a decent one, it's essentially off the radar for mid level content also. This is a shame, because I think the crafting/grind setup for Greensteel works well as the payoff is worth the effort put in. Dragontouched armor is now completely not worth the effort (I am speaking from a melee toon's perspective).

- Construct Fortification: Pretty useless, IMHO. Not enough of it on a single item to eliminate the need for heavy fort and not enough enemies that can do fort reduction to make it worthwhile. Another strike against dragontouched.

I won't ask for the world, but I'd be a much happier construct if just the ditching of DR and replacing with more PRR would see the light of day. :-)

[Arkenvis]

composite plating defaults at 0 ac and won't get any base ac until you get the higher tier docents, placing fleshies ahead in terms of unarmored ac way until wf is finally is able to catch up (somehwhat) when they get epic docents that have base 4 AC for composite...

It's even worse if your WF actually has Mithral or Adamantine Body--Mithral comes out lower than light armors in terms of armor bonus and max Dex, and Adamantine comes out worse than medium armor, despite being "heavy" (armor bonus is similar to high-level medium armors, but max Dex is worse). The PRR disparity doesn't help.

/signed for WF body feats being a L1 selection, and I'd like to see more than just the 3. Ideally there should also be a medium armor "Darkwood Body" (non-metal for some WF druid love), and possibly a "Reforged" body feat (reduces fortification by 25% in trade for full positive energy healing, no max Dex/Dodge cap, treated as Composite Plating for armor bonus from docents).

At the very least, Mithral and Adamantine body need to be seriously re-worked. Perhaps scaling max Dex based on BAB so that it's not a double whammy?

[fyrst.grok]

I'm giving them until the Update In August. I believe there'll be some WF love going on wit the enchantments based on Race rather than in class (or so I heard). If they don't give something promising back (to make up for poison) I'm going to TR my two WF's into Humans (I only play WF and Humans /: )

Btw /signed, I can't believe my Cleric with no real Epic Items was running with more AC, PPR and overall stats than my multiTR'd semi-fulled equiped Monk.

/signed

My monk and fvs are all that I have left of wf and they're going HElf and HOrc even if I was to make the same builds :/

Makes me sad to see the race, which I paid to play - and honestly love the lore of - nerfed to be useless and a pain to play compared to any other melee/non-caster.
Worse healing, worse AC, worse PRR, Worse DPS, no racial weapon, no racial prestige, no reinforced fists.. Only thing they are good at now is killing beholders in VoN.

It's even worse if your WF actually has Mithral or Adamantine Body--Mithral comes out lower than light armors in terms of armor bonus and max Dex, and Adamantine comes out worse than medium armor, despite being "heavy" (armor bonus is similar to high-level medium armors, but max Dex is worse). The PRR disparity doesn't help.

/signed for WF body feats being a L1 selection, and I'd like to see more than just the 3. Ideally there should also be a medium armor "Darkwood Body" (non-metal for some WF druid love), and possibly a "Reforged" body feat (reduces fortification by 25% in trade for full positive energy healing, no max Dex/Dodge cap, treated as Composite Plating for armor bonus from docents).

At the very least, Mithral and Adamantine body need to be seriously re-worked. Perhaps scaling max Dex based on BAB so that it's not a double whammy?

/Signed also!

[phillymiket]

/signed

My WF FVS is parked in the middle of a TR because it's just rough.
Same character, same build as before TR but far less effective then the previous life.
I can't even make toast properly on that toon.

I really wish I could just switch to human but will just have to grind up to 20 and TR into a non-joke race.

I have a WF Monster that has been a bank toon since the TWF nerf.
I think I've lost hope and will just delete him and lose the tomes just to free a character slot.
Ditto with the WF rogue.

Still love WF casters.
.

[voodoogroves]

/signed

My WF FVS is parked in the middle of a TR because it's just rough.
Same character, same build as before TR but far less effective then the previous life.
I can't even make toast properly on that toon.

I really wish I could just switch to human but will just have to grind up to 20 and TR into a non-joke race.

I have a WF Monster that has been a bank toon since the TWF nerf.
I think I've lost hope and will just delete him and lose the tomes just to free a character slot.
Ditto with the WF rogue.

Still love WF casters.
.

Try struggling through a paladin life.


Painful is an understatement.

[muffinlad]

Well, if WF can now be "Poisoned" by "Super Duper Magical Poison, etc." perhaps it is time that they get no negatives when healed by "Super Duper Magical Healing" like the Heal and Mass Heal spells.

Just a thought,

muffintree

[Skaves]

Well, if WF can now be "Poisoned" by "Super Duper Magical Poison, etc." perhaps it is time that they get no negatives when healed by "Super Duper Magical Healing" like the Heal and Mass Heal spells.

Just a thought,

muffintree

This makes sense.
This is from the forums.
The forums do not make sense.

(head asplode)

[Ravoc-DDO]

Well, if WF can now be "Poisoned" by "Super Duper Magical Poison, etc." perhaps it is time that they get no negatives when healed by "Super Duper Magical Healing" like the Heal and Mass Heal spells.

Just a thought,

muffintree

Willing to give up repairability for that?

[Jay203]

Willing to give up repairability for that?

so wf are suppose to lose stuff without gaining anything
but if they wish to gain something they must lose something

great concept there

[MRMechMan]

Willing to give up repairability for that?

For bard/ranger/pally/rogue/fighter/barb/druid/fvs/cleric/monk, absolutely.


You can almost never count on being repaired by a friendly arcane. Ever.

Palemasters won't carry reconstruct typically. Fleshy sorcs certainly won't. If the arcane is WF, MAYBE they will toss you one, but don't count on it-they won't be watching your HP bar most likely, and it isn't worth getting 60% of the heals that the fleshies are and hoping the arcanes will chip in for the difference. They won't, they have better things to do with their sp.

There are no mass reconstructs. Mass repairs are expensive and never loaded by any arcane I know. What matters is staying in the masses and having enough durability and amp to last to till the next one. WF are severely lacking in one category and don't really gain anything in the other...despite being metal and wood...

There is no repair amp. I would give up repairability for normal healing amp in an instant for most WF.

[Galvin_Omon]

I wish someone from Turbine would step up and do some splaining about the Warforge Nerf. This will again force the warforge race to be come a rareity. Player will once again not use them because you will not be able to get into parties. I can see it already the LFM-No Warforges, as people will again complaint warforges can't be healed and they are sucking up too many of the arcanes resources. Its too bad because I play this game to feel powerful and now I am not. I will have a parked my TR FVS who will stay at 8 for ever becasue it is now less powerful and more important I will be less likely to get pick for a party. And for people who tell me I crazy, it's already happening. If your not Arcane or a pure healer I have been told don't apply. Great two lives wasted, time, reasure and desire.

Also thanks for taking Terror and kicking that thing in the sack. You should have just lowered the DC or something not make it a weapon which will not be used. Thanks for sucking the fun out of the Game!!!

[Galvin_Omon]

I wish someone from Turbine would step up and do some splaining about the Warforge Nerf. This will again force the warforge race to be come a rareity. Player will once again not use them because you will not be able to get into parties. I can see it already the LFM-No Warforges, as people will again complaint warforges can't be healed and they are sucking up too many of the arcanes resources. Its too bad because I play this game to feel powerful and now I am not. I will have a parked my TR FVS who will stay at 8 forever becasue it is now less powerful and more important I will be less likely to get pick for a party. And for people who tell me I crazy, it's already happening. If your not Arcane or a pure healer I have been told don't apply. Great two lives wasted, time, reasure and desire.

Also thanks for taking Terror and kicking that thing in the sack. You should have just lowered the DC or something not make it a weapon which will not be used. Thanks for sucking the fun out of the Game!!!

[Mathermune]

I'm in agreement that warforged are not quite as good as they used to be, but the whining and pity party going on everywhere in the forums is nearly enough to make me lose all sympathy.

Warforged still get immunity to Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drain (this one is amazingly powerful in places like necro 4), Nauseated, Exhaustion and Paralyzed effects. While not immune to poison and disease, they still get +6 to saves and don't fail them on the roll of a one. Now that this is a global game effect, no-one (save paladins, and let's face it they need all the help they can get) has proof from poison/disease. With proof items altered to work in the same way this still a big bonus.

It's still a racial feat that you get for free that gives the same effect as the new +6 to poison save items that stacks with class feats like the monk.

The other complaints are legitimate.

The availability of named docents is a problem.
The body feats should be rebalanced with the new AC/DRR and should be a free racial feat given at level one.

I personally would also improve the improved fortification feat which nobody takes, give them 100% fort and immunity to sneak attacks as the feat did before, but also include immunities to poison, disease etc. So they only get the bonuses from being truly a construct if they trade in the ability to be healed by positive energy healing spells

But the people saying they are gimped beyond reason, the only thing to do is TR or that they're parked until they get better, I legitimately feel sorry that you feel that way. But WF are not as bad as you think. Worse then they used to be, yes. Unplayable? I don't agree.

[JOTMON]

WF casters are still viable due only to the self repair..just now have to carry pots of Poison/disease and UMD,lesser restoration, and/or umd heal scrolls since repair does not fix stat damage.

All my WF non-casters are now pack mules and will systematically TR'd to Fleshies, the Disease/Poison changes along with the poor healability, difficulty getting decent ac, forced into adamantine body at a feat cost(and thus losing dex bonus to ac) to get worthwhile PRR all make WF subpar to Fleshies across the board.

Unbalanced changes have hurt WF.
This could have been balanced by having heal amp apply to repair, Repair spells fix poison/disease and stat damage.
Reduce cost of healers friend enhancements and allow increase to 100%.
PRR increases for WF insead of 10% fort bs.

Lack of decent Docents an WF repair boosters, expensive enhancement lines for healing does not help this.

Its too bad I did enjoy my WF melee variants.

All future recommendations of race purchase packs will exclude WF.

[MRMechMan]

The availability of named docents is a problem.
The body feats should be rebalanced with the new AC/DRR and should be a free racial feat given at level one.

I personally would also improve the improved fortification feat which nobody takes, give them 100% fort and immunity to sneak attacks as the feat did before, but also include immunities to poison, disease etc. So they only get the bonuses from being truly a construct if they trade in the ability to be healed by positive energy healing spells

But the people saying they are gimped beyond reason, the only thing to do is TR or that they're parked until they get better, I legitimately feel sorry that you feel that way. But WF are not as bad as you think. Worse then they used to be, yes. Unplayable? I don't agree.

Energy drain is the only real immunity WF still have. Everything else was meaningless before and is still meaningless.

No one will take imp fortification still, EVEN if they can self repair, as 100% fort is ****-easy to slot. If you can't self recon, well then you couldn't pay me to take the feat...that is called being a portable -10% xp pot.

+racial saves vs poison and disease are pointless...a cure poison pot on a fleshie cures it too. Poison and disease are basically a joke anyway. I was doing sands on a TR and got 3x mummy rot...for the entire afternoon. 5+ hours of mummy rot, didn't do a **** thing. Was it because of the WF +saves? Not really, it was because diseases are a joke and +saves against them are about as useful as the bard passive past life.

WF melee are brutally gimped at the moment. With 10%/20%/30% amp and HF2, heals hit for ~350-400...that was fine until xpac hit and most solid melees have upwards of 800-1000hp. Unplayable? No. If you can withstand your healers crying. I hear their tears are quite tasty, actually.

Healing amp is one of the biggest ways of making a more survivable melee, and WF get a nice fat -50% compared to humans/helves. What do they get in return? Energy drain immunity and a couple teirs of PA enhancements.

I don't want pity, I want this race fixed.

[Truga]

I don't want pity, I want this race fixed.

This. Drop healer's friend, replace it with DR 50/-. Make it an epic WF only feat for all I care. Just do it.

[voodoogroves]

This. Drop healer's friend, replace it with DR 50/-. Make it an epic WF only feat for all I care. Just do it.

Innate PRR and give additional PRR with the DR granting feats and enhancements as well as body feats.

[Truga]

Innate PRR and give additional PRR with the DR granting feats and enhancements as well as body feats.

I could roll with that too. Especially since PRR already costs body feats on a WF, which most classes have to sacrifice something to squeeze in.