Wolf Form: weapon questions

[Neofolis]

So we know TWF and THF don't work in animal form, I was wondering what weapon effects do and don't work. According to the wolf form description, the attacks do a combination of piercing and slashing damage with a crit threat range of 19-20. So....

If I equip a club, do I still just do piercing/slashing damage?

If I equip Scimitars (crit 18-20), do I still just have crit on 19-20?

If I take IC slashing, does it effect all of my crits or do I need IC piercing as well?

Similarly how does weapon focus work?

If I attack an ooze, will it still damage my weapons?

Sorry, there are also many more questions that I can't think of right now.

[Expalphalog]

If I equip a club, do I still just do piercing/slashing damage?
Yes

If I equip Scimitars (crit 18-20), do I still just have crit on 19-20?
Yes

If I take IC slashing, does it effect all of my crits or do I need IC piercing as well?
Neither. You take IC Bludgeoning and yes I'm serious and no I'm not trolling. Even though it counts as slashing/piercing it is still an unarmed attack which is covered by bludgeoning IC feat.

Similarly how does weapon focus work?
I do not know.

If I attack an ooze, will it still damage my weapons?
99% sure the answer is 'no' - I've advanced to level 4 and never once had to repair my weapons. Not sure if that's WAI, but at the moment I haven't had any damage from oozes or rust monsters.

Answers in red

[Vesuvium]

Expalphalog is correct. Let me go into a bit more detail:

If I equip a club, do I still just do piercing/slashing damage?
If I equip Scimitars (crit 18-20), do I still just have crit on 19-20?

Yes to both. Your equipped weapons is basically ignored, as far as base damage, damage type, crit range, and crit damage are concerned. Those values are overwritten by the animal form's innate attack stats. All that really matters is what effects (flaming, keen, etc) are on the weapon. Those should all still work.

If I take IC slashing, does it effect all of my crits or do I need IC piercing as well?
Similarly how does weapon focus work?

Animal form combat benefits from feats that benefit Unarmed. So Weapon Focus: Unarmed will give you bonuses to your animal form attacks. Improved Critical: Unarmed is what you want. The confusing part here is that "Unarmed" is usually grouped under the "Bludgeoning" feats. We should probably do something to make this clearer.

[hermespan]

Expalphalog is correct. Let me go into a bit more detail:



Yes to both. Your equipped weapons is basically ignored, as far as base damage, damage type, crit range, and crit damage are concerned. Those values are overwritten by the animal form's innate attack stats. All that really matters is what effects (flaming, keen, etc) are on the weapon. Those should all still work.




Animal form combat benefits from feats that benefit Unarmed. So Weapon Focus: Unarmed will give you bonuses to your animal form attacks. Improved Critical: Unarmed is what you want. The confusing part here is that "Unarmed" is usually grouped under the "Bludgeoning" feats. We should probably do something to make this clearer.

I'd like to add that impact (either on sheild or weapon) does _not_ affect crit range in wolf form.

I tested this personally. I swatted the dummy for around an hour and checked every crit. No crits landed on anything lower than a roll of 19 with an impact item equipped. I also tried keen just for good measure.

Tested with impact on a club, impact on a sheild and keen on a scimitar.

Is this wai?

[Expalphalog]

Is this wai?

No. They've specifically listed Keen as one of the prefixes that work in animal form. Sounds like an easy fix though - they probably just have Keen applying to the weapon before animal form overwrites the crit profile instead of after.

[voodoogroves]

Dang it, I just vendored some nice clubs.

[ArkoHighStar]

so whats the difference between holding 2 weapons vs 1


say holding a lit 2 falchion

vs holding a min 2 and lit 2 khopesh

which effects does it grant you

is it based on main hand or do you get the effects from both weapons stacking?

[LeoLionxxx]

Also:
Will being un-proficient with a weapon still give you ATK penalties?

Flame blade: Will having one equiped along with flame blade give you wisdom-based atacks all of the time, or something like half of the time?

(same as Arok): if I have 2 weapons with diffrent effects (say banishing and cold burst) will both effects apply to my attacks?

If I have the same effects on my 2 equiped weapons (say 2 vorpal) will the effect apply to my attacks twice (2 hits of 100 damage on 20s)?

[dragons1ayer74]

How does power attack effect your damage in form?

How does the two weapon feats effect your attack speed/damage in form?

How would a spell like Shiligleah effect your damage in form?

[Urjak]

i got another question (maybe someone already tested it^^):

if i have racial enhancements that increase the damage of a certain weapon type, will this increase my wolf bite as well when in wolf shape? ... or to be more clear: if i play an elven druid, with scimitar enhancements, wielding a scimitar in wolf shape ... will i get the enhancement bonus?

and another one:
are only the special effects of magic weapons transfered to the bite attack, or the enhancement bonus as well?

[Baconated]

I'm SO glad that all these questions were able to be answered in the beta before the expansion went live!

[SisAmethyst]

I'm SO glad that all these questions were able to be answered in the beta before the expansion went live!

Well kind of hard to test all aspects from the druid if you have to start at level one and not have access to all your gear as you have on the live server (e.g. the reincarnation bank doesn't transfer). However you also stop testing further into details if you notice that you do 10-25 damage in wolf form, while you can do 80-100 with a spell in low levels. Not to mention that the wolf/bear Forms don't scale at all, as you just get different ones at later level (Elemental).

Regarding the effects, if you have in one hand a fire and the other one an acid weapon, both effects will apply to the damage as like they are applied when you just regular fight without being in form. So one effect for the main, the other for the off-hand.

Racial enhancements seem not to apply as your attacks are 'unarmed' and not considered e.g. Rapier/Longsword/Scimitar. However everything that boost unarmed combat should also increase the combat while shape shifted.

[Myrddinman]

These are all great questions and answers. Thanks to all who contributed!

It appears that perhaps a Dev-Inspired Druid "Let's Talk" might be in order. I am surprised at the utter lack of official information for one of the most asked for classes since DDO went live over 6 years ago. No entry in the Compendium (not like it's a bastion for comprehensive knowledge), and very little on the DDOwiki; and what is there is mostly thanks to threefeetunder's thread just yesterday.

[Neofolis]

So a little earlier I crafted myself a shocking burst large wooden shield of invulnerability. I'm getting the DR/magic, but no shock damage on my attacks. Being off hand I wasn't expecting the shock damage often, but I haven't seen any. Do I need Improved Shield Bash or will I not see the off hand effect added at any point?

[losian2]

So a little earlier I crafted myself a shocking burst large wooden shield of invulnerability. I'm getting the DR/magic, but no shock damage on my attacks. Being off hand I wasn't expecting the shock damage often, but I haven't seen any. Do I need Improved Shield Bash or will I not see the off hand effect added at any point?

I took improved shield bash and have NEVER seen it work in animal form. I shifted out with a shield that has +frost damage, attacked some and saw the +frost, shifted back and never saw it work. As best as I can tell it does NOT work (and boy do I wish I could swap that feat out. :| )

[IdyllShade]

So a little earlier I crafted myself a shocking burst large wooden shield of invulnerability. I'm getting the DR/magic, but no shock damage on my attacks. Being off hand I wasn't expecting the shock damage often, but I haven't seen any. Do I need Improved Shield Bash or will I not see the off hand effect added at any point?

Druids in animal forms only attack with the main hand weapon - so on-hit effects from the off-hand weapon will never apply. Passive buffs on the off-hand weapon do work, however. I doubt that Imp Bash will work on a Druid in animal form either. Stick with Shield Mastery for the double-strike chance - Druids seem to be able to stack up a lot of this, and it does work.

[Neofolis]

I'm also guessing, since the weapon type that you are using is not affecting your animal attacks, it doesn't matter whether or not you are proficient with whatever weapon you have equipped, So, if I want to apply acid burst to my attacks any weapon I find on the AH that has acid burst will be OK as long as I meet the ML requirement.

[SamuelTheFree]

Along these lines, does anyone know if the Kensai Enhancements work with animal form if you select unarmed?

[Vesuvium]

Lots of questions! Let's see if I can give some answers.

is it based on main hand or do you get the effects from both weapons stacking?

If I have the same effects on my 2 equiped weapons (say 2 vorpal) will the effect apply to my attacks twice (2 hits of 100 damage on 20s)?

For these particular questions I need to look into something before I can give a definitive answer - I just learned that I was operating under some incorrect assumptions! I'll try to get back to you guys on that.

How does power attack effect your damage in form?

It works the same as it normally does: -5 attack, +5 damage. It does not benefit from the extra damage for two-handed fighting styles, because you're not considered to be fighting with a two-handed weapon while in animal form.

How do the two weapon feats effect your attack speed/damage in form?

They have no effect. Neither do the two handed fighting feats.

How would a spell like Shiligleah effect your damage in form?

Shillelagh should give you an extra .5 base weapon damage while in animal form.

Will being un-proficient with a weapon still give you ATK penalties?

Yes.

Flame blade: Will having one equiped along with flame blade give you wisdom-based atacks all of the time, or something like half of the time?

Flameblade's wisdom-based attacks are part of the base weapon, not an effect on the weapon, so it doesn't apply to animal forms.

if i have racial enhancements that increase the damage of a certain weapon type, will this increase my wolf bite as well when in wolf shape? ... or to be more clear: if i play an elven druid, with scimitar enhancements, wielding a scimitar in wolf shape ... will i get the enhancement bonus?

No. When it comes to feats that affect specific weapon types, animal form attacks will only benefit from ones that affect unarmed attacks.

are only the special effects of magic weapons transfered to the bite attack, or the enhancement bonus as well?

The enhancement bonus is transferred.

Along these lines, does anyone know if the Kensai Enhancements work with animal form if you select unarmed?

They should.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Lots of questions!

This is mainly because you folks did not update the Compendium with all these changes. Can you please put that on the short list!?