Bards seem just really lousy this update especially melee bards

[maddmatt70]

I have been running my bard rabiez and my bard hangover this update. My bard rabiez is a pure level 20 warchanter strength based with very good healing capabilities and my bard hangover is a pure level 20 cc/healing bard. Rabiez is a fatesinger and Hangover is a magistrate.

I am definitely more pleased with hangover vs. rabiez first of all. Hangover has 44 enchantment dcs coming into this update, also has an o.k. greater shout and glitterdust dc, and fascinate. She has taken up the arcane spot on a number of quests and done fine in that role and seems to work well with an artificer type and healer and potentially could be primary healer in a heavy dps group.

Rabiez really struggles because she loses out to fvs/cleric exalted angels when it comes to healing power, she misses a ton now and of course power attack is a wasted feat on her (she has 40 strength and some to hit gear), and has meager sub 600 hit points. Really the best feature Rabiez has is fascinate. Inspire Courage is alot less effective although she does play inspire recklessness which is useful. Rabiez just feels like a buffbot without displacement that she can cast on others and less effective songs then last update.

I know that bard is the least played class in game, but can you devs throw us a bone for god sakes.

[voodoogroves]

Amen.

Honestly, I had ideas about where I want to take my most-primary characters. I've got a stable, but mostly specialists that I leveled while someone else was leveling. My core isn't that large, but in my mind one was/is going to be a bard again.

Until the big enhancement update, I'm still steering clear. If I were to tell you who I was going to do and the direction I was going to take them on a TR BEFORE MOTU it's a different thought on optimal than today ... and it will change after the enhancement update.

[phalaeo]

That's odd. I feel like Bards got a huge boost this update. I like playing mine more than ever now.

[Jasparion]

That's odd. I feel like Bards got a huge boost this update. I like playing mine more than ever now.

Are you talking about 20+ or levelling to 20?

Next TR I will be a pure Spellsinger and another will be pure Warchanter. Just wondering whether we should consider delaying until after an Enhancements pass (which may well be half a year away or more... or never).

[phalaeo]

Are you talking about 20+ or levelling to 20?

Next TR I will be a pure Spellsinger and another will be pure Warchanter. Just wondering whether we should consider delaying until after an Enhancements pass (which may well be half a year away or more... or never).

Well... to be honest, I hated levelling my Bard, as she's 16/2/2 and I was impatient. I've enjoyed playing her at 20 cap, but I love playing her with Fatesinger. I'm trying to get through Shadowdancer currently (to get to more twists), but I keep swapping back just because I like Fatesinger that much.

Honestly, I wouldn't wait for an enhancement pass to do anything. Turbine will keep changing stuff, and if you're always waiting, you'll find you never go forward.

[Nitesco]

That's odd. I feel like Bards got a huge boost this update. I like playing mine more than ever now.

Me too. My Bard 16/Fighter 4 Warchanter already qualified for Overwhelming Critical and got a ton of extra songs and boosts to DPS. I'm using an Epic Antique Greataxe at the moment but I might have to look into sonic based weapons now for an even greater DPS boost.

[Gratch]

I'd say it feels like melee bards are currently on the down but part of that is the direct destiny bump. Right now certain classes (wizard, fighters, barbs, monks) have obvious destinies that directly push their obvious build - dps/dc's/etc. As a few weeks go by and people figure out what to twist, get melee type toons to the melee destinies (and as the devs nerf the overpowerful) you'll see some semblance of balance come back.

Then the update 15 enhancement redo (if that's still coming then) will rescramble it all and the DOOM/GLOOM posts will hit again with everyone feeling shorted or over amazed by what others get - and then another balance patch for that and more figuring stuff out.

Not to trash on the barbs 2k+ damage crits we're seeing, but my wizard does KILL per trash mob attack and does it 10% more often with the bard's +4 int song. Plus 10% better CC. Plus bards get to heal, fascinate, Otto's Irresistable and some do CC while others add in the hits. The hits just seem low on the hitting bards until you dreadnaught up yo bard.

It's good that barbs have a ton of HP's... since they can't be displaced anymore and it's annoying to self displace with rage going. (Though luckily for them they're probably missed and now dodge more than pre-update.)

So I say too soon for the doom and gloom on bards. Non direct destiny melee builds just take more time right now. I would ask for some more heroic stuff for them, but that's not useful until we see the heroic enhancement redo. I'll save my dev's please make them moar better pestering for the Lama where the devs respond.

[Noctus]

The buffs of a bard are good as ever.

What i feel more and more is a weakness in personal power, in that what you do after you sang the songs and between rebuffs. May it be personal DPS with a Warchanter, or CC/Healing with a Spellsinger/Virtuoso.

Buffing the personal power of a Bard is not important for overall balance, in differnece to what bufing his buffpower could cause. Even stronger he wont reach the personal DPS of a dedicated melee, or the CC/Damage/Healingpower of a Fullcaster.

Bards need a hand in this regard. And also before level 20 kicks in.

[fco-karatekid]

The buffs of a bard are good as ever.

What i feel more and more is a weakness in personal power, in that what you do after you sang the songs and between rebuffs. May it be personal DPS with a Warchanter, or CC/Healing with a Spellsinger/Virtuoso.

Buffing the personal power of a Bard is not important for overall balance, in differnece to what bufing his buffpower could cause. Even stronger he wont reach the personal DPS of a dedicated melee, or the CC/Damage/Healingpower of a Fullcaster.

Bards need a hand in this regard. And also before level 20 kicks in.

This is why my Warchanter Walternate just TR'ed. I could solo (ok, solo + hireling) up to Normal Elite (tough, but doable) and Epic Hard (which was admittedly a bit bloody); but my problem was speed in killing. I could fascinate, stun, and paralyze well enough, but then it felt like lumberjacking a redwood with a herring.

Since I solo a lot, I just wasn't patient enough to hang around beating on monsters - and regenerating monsters made it even more tedious. Got too used to monks, I guess.

NOT a bad class, but you have to be ready for that kind of slowdown. Themoment U14 hit, it felt like it slowed down even more - ok TR time.

[Anthios888]

You guys really like singing Inspire Excellence with its 30 second cooldown and overlapping cooldown with Inspire Courage? I love +1 damage and everything but my parties just don't move that slowly ...

I skipped it at 21, and the bards I've played with have performed pretty badly because of how they are in the song animation so much and can't use that time to fight or heal.

[Ragnar7]

You guys really like singing Inspire Excellence with its 30 second cooldown and overlapping cooldown with Inspire Courage? I love +1 damage and everything but my parties just don't move that slowly ...

I skipped it at 21, and the bards I've played with have performed pretty badly because of how they are in the song animation so much and can't use that time to fight or heal.

In raids I generally just do strength and constitution. In quests I run with 2 monks a fvs and a fvs/monk quite a bit, so a wisdom song boosts all their dc's nicely. Most groups I play in move very quickly and we usually don't kill trash if its not necessary, but I still find time to get a couple in between fights.

[maddmatt70]

You guys really like singing Inspire Excellence with its 30 second cooldown and overlapping cooldown with Inspire Courage? I love +1 damage and everything but my parties just don't move that slowly ...

I skipped it at 21, and the bards I've played with have performed pretty badly because of how they are in the song animation so much and can't use that time to fight or heal.

Yep this is the way I am leaning myself. Thank you for capturing IE so well. I like it more on my CC/healing bard because of the charisma and being not a front line character so much so buffing on the run is not so big a deal, but I do not think I will take it on my melee bard when I get around to playing her and on rabiez it seems to hurt more then it helps.

[taurean430]

You guys really like singing Inspire Excellence with its 30 second cooldown and overlapping cooldown with Inspire Courage? I love +1 damage and everything but my parties just don't move that slowly ...

I skipped it at 21, and the bards I've played with have performed pretty badly because of how they are in the song animation so much and can't use that time to fight or heal.

No I don't actually. The cooldown is excessive.

I sing it, and manage to keep it going in rotation while grouping, but it is tedious. It takes away many opportunities for me to apply other abilities or be active in some fights. I'd really like to see the 30 second cooldown looked at.

The ability itself I like though. Even in high powered parties where it's benefits are marginal. There have been a number of times now that giving int or charisma allowed an arcane to utilize their spells more effectively. I always make sure to throw str/con though regardless of what others say. So many people don't understand how things stack and say wow and such when they receive an increase.

I can't displace people anymore to save healing sp. I can't heal very well with the choices I've made with this version of Elkabongg. But I sure can make everyone more powerful with every tool at my disposal. This includes scrolls and such as well.

[DeafeningWhisper]

You guys really like singing Inspire Excellence with its 30 second cooldown and overlapping cooldown with Inspire Courage? I love +1 damage and everything but my parties just don't move that slowly ...

I skipped it at 21, and the bards I've played with have performed pretty badly because of how they are in the song animation so much and can't use that time to fight or heal.

I don't like it much, but the party loves it. In between fights I pop one, str/con are always on and maybe int/cha for DCs if asked or wis for DCs/TenK. If anything singing for parties got easier, they no longer continue running when hearing the first few notes, in fact they come running back.


My spell singer bardcher: bard 16 ranger 2 rogue 2, performs really well in a group, full Shiradi Champion with primal scream twisted, bab 17 (thank you epic levels!), trap skills, evasion and with spell singer and IE has powerful buffs for all members of the party.

[Aashrym]

You guys really like singing Inspire Excellence with its 30 second cooldown and overlapping cooldown with Inspire Courage? I love +1 damage and everything but my parties just don't move that slowly ...

I skipped it at 21, and the bards I've played with have performed pretty badly because of how they are in the song animation so much and can't use that time to fight or heal.

The cooldown sucks but if it's only 1 or 2 stats that make a difference for DC's in the party I tend to add that, or at least for myself. I add STR for longer fights if we have a lot of melee and it might make a difference.

If the party wants a lot of stats and requests them I'll do more, but quite often it is only one stat. Versatility in which stat is something I like.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

The Devs will likely do something to buff up bards LONNNGGGG before they get around to sorting out Monk issues

[maddmatt70]

The Devs will likely do something to buff up bards LONNNGGGG before they get around to sorting out Monk issues

Monks overall are very good right now. They have bugs sure, but overall they are still very good. Bards on the other hand have been flat out ignored for the last 2 years or so and the spell pass was a slap in the face. The devs plain old forgot that bards existed when they did the spell pass - no dot spell, no sonic damage buff, they reduced the duration of enchantment spells, and no new spells at all. I have no idea what the enhancement pass is going to bring, but other then Breca's work on Fatesinger I am less then optimistic where the devs and bards are concerned. There is a reason why the Bard Class is the least popular class in DDO..

[Dingleburr]

Monks overall are very good right now. They have bugs sure, but overall they are still very good. Bards on the other hand have been flat out ignored for the last 2 years or so and the spell pass was a slap in the face. The devs plain old forgot that bards existed when they did the spell pass - no dot spell, no sonic damage buff, they reduced the duration of enchantment spells, and no new spells at all. I have no idea what the enhancement pass is going to bring, but other then Breca's work on Fatesinger I am less then optimistic where the devs and bards are concerned. There is a reason why the Bard Class is the least popular class in DDO..

Yeah, so... fatesinger - we get to spend epic AP on abilities that are largely useless.

- (Effects): You have multiple effects granting a Morale bonus to Fortitude Saving Throws that do not stack. ( Greater Heroism and O Fortuna )
- (Effects): You have multiple effects granting a Morale bonus to Reflex Saving Throws that do not stack. ( Greater Heroism and O Fortuna )
- (Effects): You have multiple effects granting an Enhancement bonus to Jump Skill that do not stack. ( Jump and Masked Ball )

Awesome.

[azrael4h]

Rabiez really struggles because she loses out to fvs/cleric exalted angels when it comes to healing power, she misses a ton now and of course power attack is a wasted feat on her (she has 40 strength and some to hit gear),

Where are you running? While my Bard isn't at cap, she's had no issues running with PA on out in Vale elites (level 17 right now). On some mobs I may have to turn it off, but largely to-hit hasn't been an issue. THF, so not as high a penalty as TWF, in case that's what you use. I have some to-hit gear, crafted to-hit goggles and Sora Kell, but not exceptionally geared.

Now her healing is way down from before, and I already wasn't having fun playing her, but as far as melee goes, nothing has seemed to change. Biggest issue is the trap DC bug; with a buffed up 22 INT, +15 gear, GH, and so forth, she no longer is capable of dealing with traps. I had planned to rebuild her, but after testing, I probably won't have to.

[maddmatt70]

Where are you running? While my Bard isn't at cap, she's had no issues running with PA on out in Vale elites (level 17 right now). On some mobs I may have to turn it off, but largely to-hit hasn't been an issue. THF, so not as high a penalty as TWF, in case that's what you use. I have some to-hit gear, crafted to-hit goggles and Sora Kell, but not exceptionally geared.

Now her healing is way down from before, and I already wasn't having fun playing her, but as far as melee goes, nothing has seemed to change. Biggest issue is the trap DC bug; with a buffed up 22 INT, +15 gear, GH, and so forth, she no longer is capable of dealing with traps. I had planned to rebuild her, but after testing, I probably won't have to.

Epic Elite which I thought was in my OP doh. Epic normal any class works.. Leveling heroic levels is well levelling and by definition relatively easy. Epic hard will eventually get changed I think so really do not want to comment on that.