Make Epic Destinies accessible without P2W

[wax_on_wax_off]

So every other character creation option in the game is either accessible via VIP status or unlocking in the game (races, classes etc).

Is Epic Destinies the first time that DDO's gone full pay2access character creation regardless of VIP status or anything? Seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth for VIPs (unless VIPs do get it?)

I suggest that partial access to Epic Destinies be granted to characters based on their build status.
Adventurer (28 pt): No access to EDs
Champion (32 pt): Can go to level 1 in an ED
Hero (34 pt): Can go to level 2 in an ED
Legendary (36 pt): Can go to level 3 in an ED
Completionist: Can go to level 4 in an ED

This is pretty conservative but it could be considered a bare minimum for the illusion of consistency.

Flame away

[destiny4405]

get off my windmills

[Jay203]

meh, just think of them as paid classes that you can't unlock with favor
if you want them, buy them~

[Cyr]

/signed

Having people be gimped is not 'fun' for other players. That is how DDO works for most people...they end up in parties with others eventually and a the difference between a level 25 no destiny toon and a level 25 fully upgraded destiny toon is huge.

[Ravoc-DDO]

/not signed

It's an expansion, not an update.

[Qzipoun]

/not signed

It's an expansion, not an update.

You could use the same logic for epic levels... yet people can level to 25

The main issue here is the current system will scale horribly. Add another 5 levels and the gap just keeps widening between those with EDs and those without.

[shadereaper33]

You could use the same logic for epic levels... yet people can level to 25

The main issue here is the current system will scale horribly. Add another 5 levels and the gap just keeps widening between those with EDs and those without.

In other MMO's that release expansion's, you can't access any of the expansion content without paying for it. Here, Turbine decides to give F2P a bone by letting them access some of the content for free, and people are complaining that they aren't allowing them to access enough of the content for free. Besides, when u15 comes out in a few months, people will be able to buy epic destinies with TP, which they can earn for free in game. Can anyone think of another MMO as good as this one where you can purchase an entire expansion for it without actually having to spend real money on it?

[valarx]

So every other character creation option in the game is either accessible via VIP status or unlocking in the game (races, classes etc).

Is Epic Destinies the first time that DDO's gone full pay2access character creation regardless of VIP status or anything? Seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth for VIPs (unless VIPs do get it?)

I suggest that partial access to Epic Destinies be granted to characters based on their build status.
Adventurer (28 pt): No access to EDs
Champion (32 pt): Can go to level 1 in an ED
Hero (34 pt): Can go to level 2 in an ED
Legendary (36 pt): Can go to level 3 in an ED
Completionist: Can go to level 4 in an ED

This is pretty conservative but it could be considered a bare minimum for the illusion of consistency.

Flame away

I'm for adding Epic Destinies as a Favor unlock at the same level as Favored Soul. It takes alot of questing to get to that level of Total Favor and you'll probably be around lvl 20 then anyway to start taking part. It's an achievable goal, but one you would need to work toward.

I'm agreeable with content being something that you pay for access to. But Epic Destinies add a bit too much functionality. It steps deeply into the realm of characters not being as good as other characters because they didn't pay for some other additional perk.

Keep in mind, that it could be part of the marketing plan to release Epic Destinies as a paid option for the first six months/year and then to switch to a system where it is available to all. This also gives the devs time to continue to see how this all works in live for several months before they package it and ship it to a wider audience.

[Postumus]

meh, just think of them as paid classes that you can't unlock with favor
if you want them, buy them~

I agree. This is my perspective on them.

[Cyr]

I agree. This is my perspective on them.

Yeah, I view this as not so much what the person playing them can build as what others grouping with them will suffer from.

That is very different then someone not being able to build a monk, druid, artificer, or FvS.

Basically it means there are people who can level to 25, but will automatically be gimps. That is not a fun grouping environment and a trap for those players who frankly are likely to be turned off from the game (not many enjoy being the gimp in a party that is dragging everyone else down).

[valarx]

Yeah, I view this as not so much what the person playing them can build as what others grouping with them will suffer from.

That is very different then someone not being able to build a monk, druid, artificer, or FvS.

Basically it means there are people who can level to 25, but will automatically be gimps. That is not a fun grouping environment and a trap for those players who frankly are likely to be turned off from the game (not many enjoy being the gimp in a party that is dragging everyone else down).

This depends on if the devs build the dungeons to lvl 25 vanilla, or to lvl 25 ED. If the devs build to 25 vanilla, then the EDs just end up being icing on the cake.

However, it's really hard for the devs to ignore the EDs when building the difficulty of the dungeon. There's so many things to take into account (dps, damage mitigation, higher DCs, etc.) that EDs are going to be practically impossible to ignore when setting the difficulty of the dungeon.

So essentially, I agree with your post. Not having the ED could mean the difference in a character being useful, and that runs the risk of discouraging grouping with characters without EDs.

I'm ok with them being an option to purchase from the store using turbine points. What would be nice is to have more ways to earn turbine points. For instance, each game you participate in during Festivault gives you Turbine points (probably a set number for achieving set goals and only the first time you achieve that goal per character). Price breaks in the DDO store are nice, but I'd rather see more ways for free to play characters to earn points in game. The festivals are a nice way to do it since they are limited time only.

[Ungood]

meh, just think of them as paid classes that you can't unlock with favor
if you want them, buy them~

I agree. This is my perspective on them.

Same here.

[Phemt81]

Uhm?

Oh yes, if you want more beta testers, that is....

[Chai]

You buy the expansion, you get the features listed in the expansion. There are alot of people on these forums who claimed that "Turbine will never get another red cent of my money ever again" in the past, and that was an easy statement to make when there was absolutely no incentive whatsoever to pay for specific features. Now that there is a HUGE incentive to do just that, I wonder how many of them have bought / will buy the epic destinies / expansion etc all quiet like then continue to harp that they will never give another red cent to Turbine - all the while they are tabbing back in to the game to play some more DDO after making said statement.

There are also a few people who were telling those of us who were making this same slippery slope argument when artificers were first pay only to shaddap and buy em already, now harping about destinies being pay only. It is as I predicted - they drew that line in a slightly different place than I did, and now that their line has been crossed, they are making the exact same argument I was making back then (when they were telling us all it wasnt such a big deal and to stop complaining).

Hilarious. For the slippery slope argument to be valid in the eyes of those who disagree with said argument, all one has to do is wait until the sheist rolls further down the slope impacting an issue that actually matters to those who disagreed in the past, and observe them jumping right on the same slippery slope bandwagon.

This discussion has already been had over and over again, and the majority lost that discussion, simply by focusing in too hard on the semantics of each single issue that was being complained about in the moment, rather than stepping back and observing the big picture aspect of what was actually happening. Now they want to jump on the bandwagon? Too late - that ship done sailed son.

P.S. +3 tomes are now a perminent fixture in the DDO store, for all those who bantered "ZOMG YRU complaining its only temporary!!!"

[wax_on_wax_off]

You buy the expansion, you get the features listed in the expansion. There are alot of people on these forums who claimed that "Turbine will never get another red cent of my money ever again" in the past, and that was an easy statement to make when there was absolutely no incentive whatsoever to pay for specific features. Now that there is a HUGE incentive to do just that, I wonder how many of them have bought / will buy the epic destinies / expansion etc all quiet like then continue to harp that they will never give another red cent to Turbine - all the while they are tabbing back in to the game to play some more DDO after making said statement.

There are also a few people who were telling those of us who were making this same slippery slope argument when artificers were first pay only to shaddap and buy em already, now harping about destinies being pay only. It is as I predicted - they drew that line in a slightly different place than I did, and now that their line has been crossed, they are making the exact same argument I was making back then (when they were telling us all it wasnt such a big deal and to stop complaining).

Hilarious. For the slippery slope argument to be valid in the eyes of those who disagree with said argument, all one has to do is wait until the sheist rolls further down the slope impacting an issue that actually matters to those who disagreed in the past, and observe them jumping right on the same slippery slope bandwagon.

This discussion has already been had over and over again, and the majority lost that discussion, simply by focusing in too hard on the semantics of each single issue that was being complained about in the moment, rather than stepping back and observing the big picture aspect of what was actually happening. Now they want to jump on the bandwagon? Too late - that ship done sailed son.

P.S. +3 tomes are now a perminent fixture in the DDO store, for all those who bantered "ZOMG YRU complaining its only temporary!!!"

Good post, if EDs were unlockable or partially accessible at some time in the future then I'd have no issue, even if that access was tied to FR favour for instance.

That was my approach with Artificer, I didn't mind that it wasn't accessible to me day 1, once it was I went and unlocked it.

I'm not specifically against spending money, I just enjoy the challenge of not doing so, if I have to buy EDs with TP that I've earned from TR'ing then I will though I'd prefer to spend that on adventure packs instead.

I've never been against +3 tomes being in the store honestly, the difference that +1 to a stat makes over a +2 tome is fairly minimal and Turbine needs their revenue which I get.

EDs are like +20 tomes being in the store without any possibility of accessing them any other way, even by signing up to VIP. There's no slope here.

Make it free to VIP (even free to VIPs who sign up after U14?) or make it accessible fully or partially in game possibly requiring a favour unlock (even if that favour is FR favour so not accessible until U14 or U15 with another pack).

[Vellrad]

Content are quests, challenges, wilderness areas, and to lesser extent, races and classes.

New, mandatory character developement system is not content.
Its purely P2W.
You either got it, or GTFO from endgame.
Not a good think.

Its almost the same like having only 1st level, racial and class premium levels for everyone, and more feats only to those who purchased feat acces.
Or if everyone could choose only few feats, and better one would be for vips or owner of feat pack only.

(I hope devs are not reading to implement this idea to game :O)

[Ungood]

You buy the expansion, you get the features listed in the expansion. There are alot of people on these forums who claimed that "Turbine will never get another red cent of my money ever again" in the past, and that was an easy statement to make when there was absolutely no incentive whatsoever to pay for specific features. Now that there is a HUGE incentive to do just that, I wonder how many of them have bought / will buy the epic destinies / expansion etc all quiet like then continue to harp that they will never give another red cent to Turbine - all the while they are tabbing back in to the game to play some more DDO after making said statement.

There are also a few people who were telling those of us who were making this same slippery slope argument when artificers were first pay only to shaddap and buy em already, now harping about destinies being pay only. It is as I predicted - they drew that line in a slightly different place than I did, and now that their line has been crossed, they are making the exact same argument I was making back then (when they were telling us all it wasnt such a big deal and to stop complaining).

Hilarious. For the slippery slope argument to be valid in the eyes of those who disagree with said argument, all one has to do is wait until the sheist rolls further down the slope impacting an issue that actually matters to those who disagreed in the past, and observe them jumping right on the same slippery slope bandwagon.

This discussion has already been had over and over again, and the majority lost that discussion, simply by focusing in too hard on the semantics of each single issue that was being complained about in the moment, rather than stepping back and observing the big picture aspect of what was actually happening. Now they want to jump on the bandwagon? Too late - that ship done sailed son.

P.S. +3 tomes are now a perminent fixture in the DDO store, for all those who bantered "ZOMG YRU complaining its only temporary!!!"

Actually I have to admit I am having quite the opposite effect to tell the truth.

I have been moving more and more into the "get over it" camp then the outraged camp. It's like watching a ball game and seeing that the team you want to win did not even place, so while the game itself is still a fun distraction, you don't earnestly have an investment into who wins.

Meh, If people want to vent, then that is what they will do. If they want to scream in outrage, so be it.

My advice is simple, but neigh impossible, I suggest: Stop worrying, log in, play, and try to have some fun. If it becomes a game you don't want to play anymore, then leave and find a game that suits your needs more.

[sirgog]

IMO they should make 3 of the destinies F2P.

Draconic Incarnation, Fury of the Wild and Exalted Angel. Covers most build archetypes (except defensive melee it has something decent if not optimal for most builds). You couldn't swap from one destiny to another as none of those connect.

Then people that buy destinies could get their build archetype's optimal destiny and work on Twists.

[Delssar]

So every other character creation option in the game is either accessible via VIP status or unlocking in the game (races, classes etc).

Is Epic Destinies the first time that DDO's gone full pay2access character creation regardless of VIP status or anything? Seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth for VIPs (unless VIPs do get it?)

I suggest that partial access to Epic Destinies be granted to characters based on their build status.
Adventurer (28 pt): No access to EDs
Champion (32 pt): Can go to level 1 in an ED
Hero (34 pt): Can go to level 2 in an ED
Legendary (36 pt): Can go to level 3 in an ED
Completionist: Can go to level 4 in an ED

This is pretty conservative but it could be considered a bare minimum for the illusion of consistency.

Flame away

/not signed

Totally against it

As someone who doesnt TR. and runs alts that would be a horrible mechanic

[Vellrad]

/not signed

Totally against it

As someone who doesnt TR. and runs alts that would be a horrible mechanic

So, nothing for you a little something for everyone else is a big no-no, because no?