Make Epic Destinies accessible without P2W

[Vellrad]

And how do you propose people find out whether or not someone has an ED?

Additionally, people made the same argument when HP became shown to the whole party. I have not been surprised by the absolute lack of being denied from parties for having "sub-par" hp.

Well, I don't know if EDs are shown anywhere, but:
1. Hirelings in the store are class levels/ED levels.
2. XP penatly is based on class level+ED levels, not class level+ commoner levels, so I bet there is some display somewhere.
3. Everyone can see me having less SP and spells not working.

[BlackSteel]

/not signed

It's an expansion, not an update.

this

if this was a traditional MMO model noone would be complaining. Turbine is still a business, and it is a huge expansion, expecting it to be F2P accessible is ridiculous.

with that said, I do think they should go ahead and release the various parts of the expansion for purchase via TP. I know several people with thousands of TP stockpiled who wanted to use money they've already put into the game versus putting more into it.

if you want to farm TP via favor and grab the expansion sure go for it; but none of it should be unlocked via favor rewards. as thats a pretty crappy mechanic considering lots of people have near max favor toons that would just accumulate these bonuses as they are released. Unless they're new faction rewards, which you'd end up needing the new pack anyway

[Chai]

Umm. I think you have that wrong. In my sampling, it is people who scream that the game has gone P2W and the people that scream about "noobs" showing up to raids unequipped are the same people.

Quite Ironic, how they say the game is P2W and yet they keep making a fuss about how no one but them is winning.

Anyway.

Thank you thank you. In your attempt to disagree with me you literally reinforced the point I was making. P2W affects everyones play experience quality. Lock, stock, and two smoking barrels folks. Allowing people to take shortcuts rather than learn the game and then expecting people who show up to have a clue is what I was talking about. Equipment has nothing to do with it, skill and metagaming knowledge do. Equipment is the tool people use to hide their lack of metagaming knowledge and skill. Oh you can see my HP now? > con gear + high starting con + SFL > hey look I got lots'o HP. Im uber. Why are my arms swinging instead of the wand going off in the abbot ice room? Had everyone convinced I was HellaPro® at ice until this unfortunate debacle..../fail + on 11 peoples squelch lists. Ah well, still uber, have high HPs. P2W is the 2012 equivilent of people buying geared accounts off eBay in MMOs ~2004. It gives the appearance of knowledge, but not the actual knowledge. DDO is not a game that people can just muddle through while fooling everyone however. That lack of knowledge becomes apparent real quick, and cant be covered up by gear, and thus P2W contributes to the rift between vets and newer players.

[Ungood]

Thank you thank you. In your attempt to disagree with me you literally reinforced the point I was making. P2W affects everyones play experience quality. Lock, stock, and two smoking barrels folks. Allowing people to take shortcuts rather than learn the game and then expecting people who show up to have a clue is what I was talking about. Equipment has nothing to do with it, skill and metagaming knowledge do. Equipment is the tool people use to hide their lack of metagaming knowledge and skill. Oh you can see my HP now? > con gear + high starting con + SFL > hey look I got lots'o HP. Im uber. Why are my arms swinging instead of the wand going off in the abbot ice room? Had everyone convinced I was HellaPro® at ice until this unfortunate debacle..../fail + on 11 peoples squelch lists. Ah well, still uber, have high HPs. P2W is the 2012 equivilent of people buying geared accounts off eBay in MMOs ~2004. It gives the appearance of knowledge, but not the actual knowledge. DDO is not a game that people can just muddle through while fooling everyone however. That lack of knowledge becomes apparent real quick, and cant be covered up by gear, and thus P2W contributes to the rift between vets and newer players.

Noobs making it to 20th is a common thing in DDO, showing up for Shroud with zero fort, and nothing that could break DR happned a long time ago, so, nothing has changed, there is no Slope, It's still not Pay2Win, no matter how many times you put that in your post.

Even if this goes totally bonkers with all kinds of stuff going on sale in the store, On the best day, the only thing that will happen is when a Noob shows up to Shroud, they may be able to toss some TP and get a decent Boss Beater, a heavy fort item, and enough STR to be somewhat useful mid quest. I can't see that as a bad thing.

[Phemt81]

ROFL. Really? So a level 25 with full destinies is just as good of an addition to a party as a level 25 with none?

What? We can reach level 25 WITHOUT epic destinies?

The more i read the more confused i become

[Ungood]

What? We can reach level 25 WITHOUT epic destinies?

The more i read the more confused i become

Yup.

The Epic levels, 21 - 25 are separate from the Destinies. The Destinies are like Enchantment lines.

The Levels themselves are just Generic "Epic" levels, they do not have any class affiliation attached to them.

[vilhazarog]

Well I haven't been playing DDO a while, been playing Skyrim mostly. But I noticed that the new stuff was released so I downloaded everything and logged on to check it out. For some dumb reason I had assumed that Epic levels included all this cool new Epic Destiny stuff, so I went over to the guy to get my Destiny, and I was confused, because it wouldn't let me pick one. Poking around I think maybe I have to unlock it in the store, I'm not happy about that, but I check to see if the TP is reasonable... no, can't unlock it in the store. So finally I figure out I have to buy the entire expansion to get it, and it'll be in the store later.

Well, for me, this is Turbine telling me to quit and try again next release.

If they'd given me at least one Destiny to play, I'd still be playing... and maybe if it was fun I'd have bought the new FR adventures so I'd have more level 20+ to play. Why would I play levels 21-25 without all the cool stuff? That's dumb. Is anyone doing this? Would anyone play Druid, if it was free, but came with no spells unless payed extra? I doubt it.

The only reason I played DDO was because of their F2P model. I've never played any other MMO. Do you know the first time they got my money? When they did away with the 'token' system and let you play all the way to level 20 without buying those bronze, silver, tokens. Their F2P model seemed really fair, where basically you just paid money if you wanted extra content or extra classes and races. Doesn't seem that fair now. I didn't expect to get Druid. I didn't expect the new content. But I did expect the new level cap. A gimped new level cap seems almost worst than not giving us one at all.

I'll come back next update. If EDs are unlockable, or not too much TP (like say.. 500) I might play for a while to unlock one and try it out... Otherwise, I'll move on to something a bit newer and shinier. No hard feelings, I got my money's worth til now.

Honestly I don't expect they will try and keep me though... I think they are making enough money from you guys that are willing to pay for this stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if the new enhancements require TP to unlock as well. Radiant servant? That's free... oh wait you want Tier 3?? That'll cost you!!

[nebogloee]

It starts to affect people, when suddenly everyone requires EDs to accept anyone to pug.

Barring epic elite (where I would only recruit for from channel/list/guild) I will still accept the first 5 to apply. Epic hard is more fun without EDs anyways. A better player is always better than a bad one with better gear/stats. And the expansion can be bought/ground out piecemeal in a month if one so desires. I could see a single destiny with generic bonuses not having much of an effect on turbine's cash flow while quelling the f2p rage. For years f2p has had NO access to epic/raid gear without grinding or spending cash, what has changed now? EDs are just the new epic loot, especially when compared to the new actual epic loot. I remember a while back, as a premium player, having to wait for new content while VIP didn't have to, it was not pay 2 win because I could always grind out the TP or buy it, I just had to wait. As f2p, you could spend that time grinding out tp for august, or just buy it.

EDIT: We will have to wait and see it Turbine allows you to buy each destiny separate for a reasonable price when they hit the store in August, if they do, then it will be wins for all.

[EpiKagEMO]

seems interesting enough
/sign

[Saravis]

I made this point in another thread and I'll make it in this one.

Epic Destinies is nothing new to the DDO model.
You can't get to 20 without obtaining packs from the DDO store.
You can get packs by either favor grinding for TP or by shelling out cash.
The epic destinies will work the same way.

With that said, I have nothing against them giving me free stuff.

[Phemt81]

Yup.

The Epic levels, 21 - 25 are separate from the Destinies. The Destinies are like Enchantment lines.

The Levels themselves are just Generic "Epic" levels, they do not have any class affiliation attached to them.

Thanks bro!

You get real improvements for your char as you level to 21 and so on, without the destinies enhances unlocked?

[Ungood]

Thanks bro!

You get real improvements for your char as you level to 21 and so on, without the destinies enhances unlocked?

Not really, they are generic levels, I think D10 HP, Feat at level 21 and 24, and some Spell Points (not sure how that works), stat increase at 24, Nothing really grand to be honest.

And your character is not really, 21st level, it is 20 (class levels) and 1 Epic Level. IE: 20 Barb / 5 Epic

[Davelfus]

And how do you propose people find out whether or not someone has an ED?

1. Select the toon
2. Examine
3. ???
4. Profit

[Phemt81]

Not really, they are generic levels, I think D10 HP, Feat at level 21 and 24, and some Spell Points (not sure how that works), stat increase at 24, Nothing really grand to be honest.

And your character is not really, 21st level, it is 20 (class levels) and 1 Epic Level. IE: 20 Barb / 5 Epic

Thank a lot again.

If i level to 25 and then buy ED, do i get all the enhancements i would have been able to use in the past or gotta make new xp to use it?

[Dendrix]

1000tp for 1st ED access.

+500tp for each destiny access thereafter

1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 etc

[bigolbear]

IMO they should make 3 of the destinies F2P.

Draconic Incarnation, Fury of the Wild and Exalted Angel. Covers most build archetypes (except defensive melee it has something decent if not optimal for most builds). You couldn't swap from one destiny to another as none of those connect.

Then people that buy destinies could get their build archetype's optimal destiny and work on Twists.

Thats prety much along my thoguht porcess, although id argue one from each sphere.

If its the case that vip Arent going to get ED's for free then frankly VIPS its time to cancel your subs, its probably well past time to be frank.

[Sidewaysgts86]

Thank a lot again.

If i level to 25 and then buy ED, do i get all the enhancements i would have been able to use in the past or gotta make new xp to use it?

Epic destinies are an entirely separate leveling system from your own character level.