Lowering the cost of being a healer?

[Dalsheel]

yesterday i did a vod hard and sure, it wasn't the best group in the world, but that's how it is when you join pugs.

Anyway, it ended up with a wipe at 1%, no worries, **** happens.. However, here's what i find frustrating, everyone except the healers just had some repair bills while we were out 50 heal scrolls and 2 pots each.

Sure, it's easy to say "don't join pugs", "don't use scrolls and pots", "recognize fail early and bail" or "don't play a healer" etc. But you wont be popular for long if you don't at least whip out those heal scrolls when things get tough.

I wanna join pugs, i wanna heal, i wanna support, i want the randomness in challenge that pugs can be, but so many of the harder dungeons can end up with me out 30+k and it's just not fun when it's so much cheaper being any other class.

If we are supposed to use scrolls to compliment our spell heals then consider lowering the cost? I see a lot of healers doing just that, right at the start of the fight they start throwing in scroll heals just to keep a good balance.

How bout limiting the amount of pots (1 per dungeon max?) and maybe do some re-balance on scrolls and then balance the game around that? It seems like some dungeons are balanced around the fact that you "can" have unlimited resources if you spend enough.

So, is anything being done in the expansion to lower the cost of being a healer?

/frustrated healer

+1

[Ryiah]

1 pot/dungeon would go a long way to make it less frustrating for me. I want to be able to give everything I have to do my job, just as I do with every other class I have, but when healing, it costs infinite amounts more to accomplish.

While I'm all for reducing healing costs, I have to thoroughly disagree that introducing a hard limit on potion usage would be a good mechanic. It might seem frustrating now, but imagine if that one extra pot over the limit would have made the difference?

Also your example is pathetic. While I can see VoD hard wiping, what I can't see is making a big deal over 50 heal scrolls and two major mnemonics. Maybe if the numbers were closer to a couple hundred heal scrolls and/or several major pots, but not the amount you give. That's almost nothing for Elite/Epic raids.

[Farayon]

Lots of sound advice in this thread. 2 additional tips:

Ask a friendly haggle bard to get your stacks of heal scrolls for you. A 70 haggle gets those so much more cheaply.

Invest AP into the 'wand and scroll mastery' line. You get more bang for your buck per scroll.

[phalaeo]

Also have you played a healer? major SP pots cost about 20k EACH, a stack of 100 heal scrolls costs 15k, and you need to replace the heal scrolls every 2-4 raids/quests depending on how much you use them. Go play a healer and be perpetually broke then come back to us.

A. I have four Clerics, 2 TRed

B. I have never purchased SP pots from the AH (I'll admit to buying some from the store once, when I first started playing)

C. Somehow I have 100 Majors on my main Cleric... last time I used a Major pot was learning to run LoB

D. Do you have access to the guild vendor? Or does your guild have a high haggle toon that will buy them for you?

E. Speak up. When I'm in raids on my Bard, I'll happily pass a few to the healer in group. All you have to say is "Guys, this is getting a bit resource intensive, if we decide to continue, can people throw me a pot or two?

I hear what most of you are saying but what other class has to do this?

My Bard is actually the most expensive of my characters to run. She dual wields, so that's two MinIIs, two LitIIs, specialty weapons, Heal Scrolls, Cure Pots, Curse Pots, Pots and wands, wands and pots. And she has about a 60 Haggle.

As a mainly divine player I get this ''feeling'' with any pug raids I join. If the DPS is lacking or the CC isn't landing, or people are just being stupid ... I wouldn't dare chug any pots. I would rather wipe.

100%. Totally.

Here is a VoD story (if you've read this far, lol).

My first VoD, I was asked to heal, and ended up solo healing on Hard. On a level 15 Cleric. I drank many, many pots and never wanted to see the inside of that raid again.

A few weeks ago, my fiance and I decided to try and duo it just for fun. We got him down to 1%.

Although healers do spend a lot on resources, I don't think that changing the mechanics/cost is the answer. The more you play, the better you will get, and eventually you'll see pot usage decrease. I know that sounds unsympathetic and harsh, but it's true.

[Proffit]

While I'm all for reducing healing costs, I have to thoroughly disagree that introducing a hard limit on potion usage would be a good mechanic. It might seem frustrating now, but imagine if that one extra pot over the limit would have made the difference?

Also your example is pathetic. While I can see VoD hard wiping, what I can't see is making a big deal over 50 heal scrolls and two major mnemonics. Maybe if the numbers were closer to a couple hundred heal scrolls and/or several major pots, but not the amount you give. That's almost nothing for Elite/Epic raids.

So my example is pathetic cause the cost can get so much higher on the really hard raids? That makes the cost ok when very few other classes have any costs at all?

Anyway, I appreciate the tips and I will take em to heart.

So, is anyone gonna answer my original question? Is there anything in the expansion that makes it less expensive to heal? New items? New spells/skills from epic destinies?

[DarkForte]

AC is easier to get after the expansion -> melees take less damage on average -> less heals should be necessary.

[dubyprime]

I would be all for reducing the cost of scrolls and pots(cures/remove curse etc) off vendors.
As people mentioned having a haggle bard/guild vendor etc is a significant advantage in scroll cost.
Not having this is a disadvantage to new players who are already short on plat.

That said, there are plenty of ways to change your play or build to better manage resources.
All the mana regen items listed are a great start. Torc is also worth getting.
As far as builds go, Capstone FVS works, or you can try a 2600sp cleric build if you prefer the aura..
I built my cleric as a pure healbot, just to heal raids. I have other toons for all those other aspects of the game.

Being polite about it during a raid is tricky, but no one should be too offended.

Learning each raid helps as well. After some experience you can quickly see when a VoD or Chrono will have problems near the end.

[GermanicusMaximus]

So, is anyone gonna answer my original question? Is there anything in the expansion that makes it less expensive to heal? New items? New spells/skills from epic destinies?

Your aura will probably heal for more HPs.

The opinions on the Epic Destiny for cleric/FvS is mixed, but most people are not that impressed with it. To top if off, the devs seemed uninterested in engaging in a discussion for the most part.

Oh, and the devs decided to nerf Divine Casters because melee complained they were "overpowered".

You should expect the road dead ahead to be bumpy.

Of course, all those melee toons sitting in PUGs waiting for a cleric/FvS to show up? Life isn't going to be great for them either.

[PopeJual]

So, is anything being done in the expansion to lower the cost of being a healer?

My solution to this problem was to look at it from the other direction. Instead of trying to reduce the plat cost of healing, I tried to reduce the percentage of my total income that the same plat amount would consume.

Just sinking some points into Haggle (and making sure I have appropriate buffs for Haggle) on my Wizard and doing even a small amount of chest farming nets me a surprisingly large amount of plat. I don't tend to chug pots, but I do burn through scrolls like a drunken sailor.

It's not such a big deal as long as I remember to farm up some cash occasionally. The past couple of weeks have been tough since I TR'd my Wizard and I've recently burned through all of my cash on a "TR everyone" twink item bonanza. I expect to be rolling in cash again once the update comes since I'll be vendoring level 21+ trash instead of lower level trash.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Your aura will probably heal for more HPs.

The opinions on the Epic Destiny for cleric/FvS is mixed, but most people are not that impressed with it. To top if off, the devs seemed uninterested in engaging in a discussion for the most part.

Oh, and the devs decided to nerf Divine Casters because melee complained they were "overpowered".

You should expect the road dead ahead to be bumpy.

Of course, all those melee toons sitting in PUGs waiting for a cleric/FvS to show up? Life isn't going to be great for them either.

Well, there is the argument that the new viable AC at all levels will make healing easier, no idea how much to hit melee will lose thou, so it might be a wash because of longer fights.

It's funny how melees want to nerfs all casters yet they forget rangers and paladins are casters too, or that bards who are mainly support are also casters, that arties are casters as well or that divines, which most melees can't complete a single quest without, are casters.

Well guess what? Turbine listened (at least when it comes to having to slot devotion and other things to deal spell damage), expect to have to wait a bit longer on healers for quests, but hey now FvS take up to a whole 5 minutes longer to solo quests! I guess melees' "won" then

P.S. Build self-healers, be it with UMD or actual spells, it's the way of the future... Or present if you're smart.

[DeafeningWhisper]

My solution to this problem was to look at it from the other direction. Instead of trying to reduce the plat cost of healing, I tried to reduce the percentage of my total income that the same plat amount would consume.

Just sinking some points into Haggle (and making sure I have appropriate buffs for Haggle) on my Wizard and doing even a small amount of chest farming nets me a surprisingly large amount of plat. I don't tend to chug pots, but I do burn through scrolls like a drunken sailor.

It's not such a big deal as long as I remember to farm up some cash occasionally. The past couple of weeks have been tough since I TR'd my Wizard and I've recently burned through all of my cash on a "TR everyone" twink item bonanza. I expect to be rolling in cash again once the update comes since I'll be vendoring level 21+ trash instead of lower level trash.

Just by selling the vendor loot in an hour worth of play in the Beta on my PM with haggle I made 20k, buying from guild vendors will be easy. It will lead to inflation on the AH thou...

[UltraMonk2]

Artificers & Rogues with a high enough UMD can use both Heal and Reconstruct Scrolls. As a player who has both an 20 Arty and 20 Rogue, I think it is really poor that other Arties and Rogues run around without Heal and Reconstrust Scrolls, you are not playing your class to its full potential.

Wizard's and Sorcerer's can use Reconstruct Scrolls.

Artificers can take care of the Blade Barriers required in VoD, thus saving SP for the Cleric's and Favored Souls.

There are so many things other classes in VoD can do to relieve the pressure on the healers and to save them SP.

[Antheal]

I apologize in advance if this sounds a bit abrasive, but why should Turbine change anything about the game because of how you choose to play your class? Sure, healing raids can get expensive if they go south, but it is a choice that you, as the healer, have to make. Similarly, after a particularly expensive run, if you feel that you have used up and abnormal amount of resources, why not ask the party to contribute to your costs? I have personally sent some SP pots to healers after bad raids when they chimed in and asked for it. If you say nothing at the end, everyone will just assume that you either didn't use any extreme amount of resources or that you are fine covering the costs yourself. I don't feel turbine should ever make changes to the game just because some people can't make a decision to just let a bad run fail, and instead continue to throw resources at the raid until it either completes or wipes.

I hope with that attitude you never, ever, join any LFM that isn't BYOH.

[Meat-Head]

So, is anyone gonna answer my original question? Is there anything in the expansion that makes it less expensive to heal? New items? New spells/skills from epic destinies?

Post #9, "Some Tips", point #3.


Yes. The xpack has TWO new item sets that reduce SP cost by 10%. Dunno if this stacks with anything.

[Saravis]

I don't see how you could ever get to a point where raid healing in PUGs has a fair cost compared to the rest of the party. Healers will always have more of a burden than other players.

If its that big a deal to you, you can go four routes.
1. Turn into one of those elitist players that put "EXTREME FILTERING" into the LFM, to ensure that you only get the best of the best. I'd rather you not go this route.
2. Get better at playing a healer, the better you are the less costly it is.
3. Be openly communicative about your issue with the costs of healing. You can make offers like, "I'm willing to use x number of mnem pots in this raid, but if you want/expect me to use more then contribute said amount and I'll use that as well."
4. Don't play a healer. Healers aren't for everyone, fact of life.

[Indoran]

You seem to have missed my point. As the healer, it is your responsibility to choose how much of your available resources you are willing to spend to get a completion. Frankly, if you chug a handful of pots, and the people you run with think that you asking for a few as reimbursement is you being greedy, you should really think hard about whether or not you want to run with them ever again. If you are having to spend 15k plat every 2-4 quests, just on heal scrolls, perhaps you need to look at how you are healing, and what gear you are using.

At the end of the day, the decision to drink a 20k pot is yours to make, and yours alone. If you choose to drink that potion to get the completion, you have to then deal with the consequences of that decision. If you choose to blow through 25-50 heal scrolls, that is a choice you make. If you don't like making those choices in your groups, then perhaps you should re-evaluate whether or not you should be playing a healer.

^this... my first toon was a cleric then tr'ed to fvs... i like him soooo much i am getting some pl to make him a better evoker.

I have never ever been short on plat on him... have a couple hundred sp pots on him (I rarely get handouts and have been in the game only since it became f2p)... I never ask for contributions but accept them when they rarely come out of the goodness of the heart of a raid member...

I have a few rules on resource management that keep costs low but I sometimes spend 10 pots on a raid because I want to (like a 20th or 40th)

I personally dont consider heal scrolls that expensive, its more about learning how to time heals and to conserve sp... so i think instead of blaming costs, one has to learn to do more with his toon without using lots of resources.

[Sgt_Hart]

I'll restate: Wand and scroll amplifications enhancements. Max it.

I'll also add in: I (Apparently am in the minority that) will swear by the reduced metamagic lines for both CLR, and FVS. These lines(With SP increase negation gear) can Dramatically change the SP-to-HP efficiency math.

As a cleric, Look long and hard at the lorrick's necklace, and factor in the -4 from enhancements. That a total of -6 you can apply to the +10 needed to empower heal.. AKA: Empower heal(+75% with radiant servant 2) for 4(vs 8 with just item) More spell points per cast.

60 for a quickened/empowered heal.. Vs 54 seems like a minor gain, but at the same time, the cheaper the spell is base cost wise, the more you notice how drastically cheaper it is.

Cure mod for example at 8 SP.. with reduced empowered cost's as much(More like: As little) as a non-meta's cure serious.

Not sure how this will all stack up in 10 hours however. Wait and see, Film at eleven.

[WruntJunior]

I'll also add in: I (Apparently am in the minority that) will swear by the reduced metamagic lines for both CLR, and FVS. These lines(With SP increase negation gear) can Dramatically change the SP-to-HP efficiency math

I'd say that, 90% of the time, if you're healing the tank from SP, either you're doing something wrong or the tank is (or perhaps shouldn't be tanking)...and I very rarely use a mass healing spell outside of mass heal (which can easily be done without metas). A cleric may wind up investing in empower healing cost reduction...but my cleric experience is practically null (I only play FvS for divines...cleric seems dull to me).

For a cleric, if your have a really good tank in VoD (though I don't know how it'll be in a few hours...but currently on live, it's like this), you can stand with the melees on the back and greatly contribute to healing with the aura. This will definitely save you money, and assuming your tank is good, a heal scroll that will put him near full + an aura tick to put him at full = good efficient healing. For the most part, especially in VoD, the boss alone shouldn't even really be hurting a good tank enough for you to have to use sp, and saving that sp for high-damage-to-party (orthons, exploding bats) phases makes using a pot much rarer.

To the OP and anyone else finding being a healer too expensive...generally, if you're finding your healer burning through sp too fast, you have to ask...are you misplaying your healer, or are you forcing a completion of a doomed party? If the first is true, adjust your playing so that you're not being wasteful...if the second is true, figure out whether or not it's worth it and either force it or cut your losses. Trust me, just because you use say, 20 majors, doesn't mean you're going to be a hero...more like, you MAY get a "nice heals" comment and possibly 5 of those majors back...in comparison, if you're playing in a party of intelligent people that fails simply due to not being a good enough party and you deciding not to force the completion, they'll not pin the blame to you...and if they do, they probably belong on your squelch list.

In about 2 years of having Wruntjunior as a FvS (and more recently, capping and gearing a melee FvS), I've found that any time I'm not making money and pots, I'm doing something wrong...and that "blame the healers" is only common among idiots. On the contrary, with 1 stack of heal scrolls and the free clw capstone, along with my normal sp bar (which is just under 2800 mana), I can heal a competent group through almost any end-game raid (eChrono and eLoB are the only two where occasionally 1 stack of heal scrolls isn't enough...but then, I've never had to use more than ~150-200 heal scrolls even in eLoB) and make more money than I spend on heal scrolls and repair costs. Playing a healer isn't expensive...however, it DOES require practice.

[Hephaistor]

I wouldn't say don't pug on your healers at all, but I am somewhat picky what Pugs I'm gonna heal. If I know the Leader and I know he will get a good team together than I am glad to join. If I don't know anyone and the LFM looks strange (Like XYZ leet, need *item ABC*, or worse "need guide*) then nope, not for me

Most of the time I am offered more pots then I actualy needed and can say: "TY, but X allready gave my some Pots, next time perhaps " It is really all about with what people you run.

[Whesper]

Using Heals scrolls to extend your sp is a good advice, however just to be sure, use the scrolls BEFORE your sp ends. I have seen too many players starting to use scrolls only after they are out of sp. Most often you will be better off using scrolls and with some sp left ( couple hundred) than using up all sp and then trying to frantically use scrolls.

Another thing I see divines do is overheal. People that are not the tank at 80-85% HP perform just as well as at 100%. Surely, you can top them off with Free CLW or Radiant aura, but using SP for that is usually a waste of resources.

I have been in a lot of VoDs and resource usage depends on the tank and the CC. If it's an AC tank and arcane/bard has the devils dancing, damage is rather low. It is when a random dps thinks he can tank and/or arcane is low on DCs/SPen.