Dwarfven Dungeon Delver - Rng 12/Rog 7/Ftr 1

[GlassJaw]

Not sure if anyone is familiar with the 3.5 prestige class the Dungeon Delver but this is my take on that. Basically a self-sufficient character that can fight, heal, handle traps, and is good solo and in a group.

I've been focusing on my wizard main primarily but after TRing him, I want to focus on a melee character, especially since I've been pulling some solid gear lately. Currently leaning towards a monk, thief-acrobat, or this guy.

In a nutshell:
- All level-ups into Strength
- Ranger Tempest II, Rogue Assassin I
- Dual-wield dwarven waraxes

Questions:
- Not sure on Stunning Blow. It's awesome but will it still be effective at later levels?

- Is Oversized TWF worth it early on to offset the TWF penalties? Or should I scrap it and use a light weapon in my offhand?

- Does the level progression look ok? I tried to equally space out the ranger and rogue levels to keep skills maxed but it means I'll get the prestige enhancements later in the progression.

Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male 
(1 Fighter / 7 Rogue / 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 320 
Spell Points: 242 

BAB: 18/18/23/2828 
Fortitude: 17 
Reflex: 17 
Will: 8 

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement 
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats 
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20) 
Strength           16                23 
Dexterity          14                18 
Constitution       17                21 
Intelligence       12                14 
Wisdom             12                14 
Charisma            6                 8 

Tomes Used 
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 
 
              Starting      Feat/Enhancement 
             Base Skills  Modified Skills 
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 20) 
Balance            6              26 
Bluff              -2             1 
Concentration      3              5 
Diplomacy          -2             -1 
Disable Device     5              25 
Haggle             -2             -1 
Heal               1              2 
Hide               6              30 
Intimidate         -2             -1 
Jump               6              16 
Listen             1              2 
Move Silently      6              30 
Open Lock          6              22 
Perform            n/a            n/a 
Repair             1              2 
Search             5              26 
Spot               5              24 
Swim               3              6 
Tumble             3              5 
Use Magic Device   2              22 
 
Level 1 (Rogue) 
Feat: (Selected) Dodge 
 
Level 2 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead 
 
Level 3 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow or Oversized TWF
 
Level 4 (Rogue) 
 
Level 5 (Ranger) 
 
Level 6 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell 
 
Level 7 (Rogue) 
 
Level 8 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility 
 
Level 9 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack 
 
Level 10 (Ranger) 
 
Level 11 (Rogue) 
 
Level 12 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons 
 
Level 13 (Ranger) 
 
Level 14 (Rogue) 
 
Level 15 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack 
 
Level 16 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
 
Level 17 (Rogue) 
 
Level 18 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Selected) Toughness 
 
Level 19 (Ranger) 
 
Level 20 (Rogue) 
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I 
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II 
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I 
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I 
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II 
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I 
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I 
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II 
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I 
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II 
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I 
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II 
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I 
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II 
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I 
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I 
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I 
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I 
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I 
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II 
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I 
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I 
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II 
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I 
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I 
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II 
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I 
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II 
Enhancement: Improved Hide I 
Enhancement: Improved Hide II 
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I 
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II 
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I 
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II 
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III 
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I 
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II 
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild III 
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I 
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II 
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I 
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I 
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I 
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[GlassJaw]

Is my build that good? I can't take complete credit for it since I saw it mentioned elsewhere. Just wanted to check if there were any major flaws or things to consider.

[unbongwah]

Some random comments:

• Do you have monk? That's usually a better splash than ftr. If not, then another option is barb for the +10% run speed & +1 Power Atk enh. Or rogue 8 which lets you add W&S Mastery III for another +15%.
• I'd dump-stat WIS and drop CON to 16 so you can max STR. Or maybe start 18 / 14 / 18 / 8 / 8 / 6 if you're willing to give up some skill pts.
• In general everyone who's not a monk or pally should go True Neutral: immunity to alignment dmg, no neg lvl when using evil-tainted gear, and benefit from Stability items.
• I don't see much point in taking Extend on a rgr; all your buffs are long-term ones already. Likewise OTWF if not going for Tempest III; on the off-chance you have trouble hitting things, just keep a handaxe for your offhand. That lets you take Toughness sooner and squeeze in 1 or 2 tactics feats.

[unbongwah]

Oh, also, I don't think Assassin I is worth the 13 AP cost. I'd skip it entirely to add, say, more HPs (Toughness III & IV), Spell Defense III, maybe a couple of dwarven Tactics enhs.

[unbongwah]

Slightly different take on your idea: more DPS & HPs, W&S Mastery III, but gives up a feat and a bunch of skill pts (drops stealth, loses some Spot & OL).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
(8 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 346
Spell Points: 140 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         18                    22
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    18
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         5                    29
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device        3                    23
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  5                     8
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             6                    15
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search                3                    25
Spot                  3                    15
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device      2                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III

I believe Marilith Chain is about to become light armor when the expansion goes live. If so, it should mix nicely with this build, as it provides both Seeker & Shatter bonuses - the latter stacks w/dwarven Tactics for +9 to Imp Sunder.

[GlassJaw]

Thanks for all the replies!

Do you have monk? That's usually a better splash than ftr. If not, then another option is barb for the +10% run speed & +1 Power Atk enh. Or rogue 8 which lets you add W&S Mastery III for another +15%.

Why is Monk a better splash? Ftr also grants a feat and I probably won't have a high-enough Wisdom to justify no armor. At least with Ftr I get some decent enhancements.

Barbarian is a cool idea, although it makes feat choice a lot more difficult.

I'd dump-stat WIS and drop CON to 16 so you can max STR. Or maybe start 18 / 14 / 18 / 8 / 8 / 6 if you're willing to give up some skill pts.

I can see that, although I don't like relying on items to be able to cast. Although I guess with this build, I only need Wis 13 so it's not too bad.

In general everyone who's not a monk or pally should go True Neutral: immunity to alignment dmg, no neg lvl when using evil-tainted gear, and benefit from Stability items.

Fair enough, although being able to use Good weapons is nice while leveling.

I don't see much point in taking Extend on a rgr; all your buffs are long-term ones already. Likewise OTWF if not going for Tempest III; on the off-chance you have trouble hitting things, just keep a handaxe for your offhand. That lets you take Toughness sooner and squeeze in 1 or 2 tactics feats.

I agree about Extend but again, it's really nice for leveling. Can easily be swapped later.

Other question:

Why all the points in Concentration? For Heal scrolls at end-game or something?

And why all the Ranger levels up front? To get Tempest II ASAP? Seems like skill points would be better distributed by alternating levels too.

[unbongwah]

Why is Monk a better splash?

+2 Reflex & Will saves, WIS AC bonus (although that's about to get hit by the nerf bat), and handwraps as a backup weapon.

At least with Ftr I get some decent enhancements.

I suppose ftr 1 makes more sense if you'd rather have +1 DCs and Toughness I than the monk goodies; Crit Accuracy is basically useless.

Fair enough, although being able to use Good weapons is nice while leveling.

Righteousness counts as good-aligned, so you no longer need PG weapons for DR-breaking purposes.

Why all the points in Concentration? For Heal scrolls at end-game or something?

Correct - or really any scrolls you try to use mid-combat, as you need to pass a Concentration check.

And why all the Ranger levels up front? To get Tempest II ASAP?

That and to get the TWF feats that much sooner.

Seems like skill points would be better distributed by alternating levels too.

It's a tradeoff: if you stagger out the rogue & rgr lvls more, you can put fewer rgr skill pts into rogue-only skills so as to put more into secondary skills, like Hide & MS; but you're backloading your rgr feats and Tempest I&II if you do that.

[Ragnar7]

I posted a build like this a while back. I used it on my main character and the dps in raids, where you are getting favored enemy damage is really good.

I set stats to 18,13,16,11,9,9 I believe for silver flame pot use with +2 tomes.

I also took point blank and imp. crit. ranged for better manyshot damage, which can be really useful and you get more mileage with your haste/damage boosts.

You could get decent stunning blow with an alchemical and spare hand belt.

Not sure of which feats to take with the expansion though since some of them will be changing.

Monk vs. fighter I chose fighter mainly for more hp. Handwraps can be cool, but you can make 3x positives for undead and I could be wrong but I dont think tempest off hand procs work on handwraps anyway.