New feat, damage with dex, when?

[Sarnind]

Where is this famous feat?Devs, u promised to put in soon. I hope going live whit motu. Any confirmation?

[Jaid314]

they didn't say it was going to be soon. they didn't say it would be a feat.

they did say they wanted to get to it, at some point. and that they want it to be available in heroic levels, not epic.

looks like we're just going to have to wait. at a guess, i'd say the enhancement pass, which is estimated for november or something like that?

[Valakai]

There are some new shortswords that do this. Besides those...hoping it will be implemented thoon!

[Shade]

They never said they ever planned to put such a broken feat into the game.

They mentioned they MAY add this option as part of the enhancement revamp.

Id guess it'd be likely to be included in the Assasin tree, at a moderate-high cost, but available at low lvl so you don't have to respec your character to use it. It also would likely be limited to a select few weapons Being limited to one class/pre tree/weapon types wouldn't be as broken.

[Stillwaters]

They never said they ever planned to put such a broken feat into the game.

They mentioned they MAY add this option as part of the enhancement revamp.

Id guess it'd be likely to be included in the Assasin tree, at a moderate-high cost, but available at low lvl so you don't have to respec your character to use it. It also would likely be limited to a select few weapons Being limited to one class/pre tree/weapon types wouldn't be as broken.

The hints were more that Cha and Dex based combat would be in enhancement lines and usable from low lvl.

And as for broken Shade, arty insightful to hit/damage is just as broken and its only a spell:
One stat that directs Ref saves (with a feat) SpellDCs, Spellpoints, Skillpoints, To hit and/or Damage..
Druids using flameblade are more constrained but does similar thing for Wis (another caster stat).

There's no reason left NOT to include it on Cha or Dex, throw the finesse guys a bone ffs
Dex may also include AC but isnt a main DC stat or spellpoint stat

[Sarnind]

They never said they ever planned to put such a broken feat into the game.

They mentioned they MAY add this option as part of the enhancement revamp.

Id guess it'd be likely to be included in the Assasin tree, at a moderate-high cost, but available at low lvl so you don't have to respec your character to use it. It also would likely be limited to a select few weapons Being limited to one class/pre tree/weapon types wouldn't be as broken.

I hope u have right

[delsoboss]

Isn't the "dex gives you AC so it's overpowered if it gives you damage too" kind of moot with the AC changes?

If before there was the fear of finesse elf/halfling fighters/rogues/rangers ruling the battlefield with AC worth 95% damage avoidance, and that's what was feared, under the new system this is not going to happen, not even in khortos probably.

[LittleM]

such a broken feat into the game.

Which game are you refering to? You shure as hell can't be talking about DDO.

[Vellrad]

They never said they ever planned to put such a broken feat into the game.

They mentioned they MAY add this option as part of the enhancement revamp.

Id guess it'd be likely to be included in the Assasin tree, at a moderate-high cost, but available at low lvl so you don't have to respec your character to use it. It also would likely be limited to a select few weapons Being limited to one class/pre tree/weapon types wouldn't be as broken.

Yes because adding dex to damage is much more broken than babarians with 100+ STR and sorcerers AoE instakilling with nukes.

[Jaid314]

And as for broken Shade, arty insightful to hit/damage is just as broken and its only a spell:
One stat that directs Ref saves (with a feat) SpellDCs, Spellpoints, Skillpoints, To hit and/or Damage..
Druids using flameblade are more constrained but does similar thing for Wis (another caster stat).

first off, artis only get one or the other with that spell, not both.

secondly, due to the significant stat requirements to have viable investment in ranged combat, if your artificer has a bad dex, you are probably severely gimping yourself (unless of course you are a melee artificer, and have somehow managed to make that function well).

[Aerendil]

Yes because adding dex to damage is much more broken than babarians with 100+ STR and sorcerers AoE instakilling with nukes.

I thought the same thing.
Seriously Shade, you're running around popping 500+ dmg crits every couple of swings with your eSoS, and you think letting people use Dex as their to-hit and damage stat is "broken"?

Lol


For the record, I'd love to see this feat make it into the game sometime soon.
It's obvious that the enhancement overpass was initially supposed to go in at the same time as epic destinies, and that everything would be a nice smooth flow between heroic levels and epic levels.
Since that's obviously not the case, it's really hard to evaluate the epic destinies since we're not sure how our heroic abilities are going to change....

They need to get that enhancement overpass in ASAP, and work on including abilities such as the dex-to-damage that was strongly suggested would be with that overhaul.

[LeLoric]

Which game are you refering to? You shure as hell can't be talking about DDO.

He means the one you take along with weapon finesse to allow you to use your 40 dex for to hit and dmg instead of your 60+str and no feats.

[Stillwaters]

He means the one you take along with weapon finesse to allow you to use your 40 dex for to hit and dmg instead of your 60+str and no feats.

Exactly, most of the "finesse" toons are ones like Rogues and Rangers that do not have a ton of spare feats to take.

Look at realistically taking both Wfinesse and Dexdamage feats on one of those toons?

Even a monk hasn't got that much room to play with, only a fighter could exploit it without much tradeoff, but thats the benefit of fighter - good feat upgrades mean good fighters..

[Stillwaters]

first off, artis only get one or the other with that spell, not both.

1stly certain special weps are already using Int for to hit or damage,
2ndly you dont need to-hit anymore, to hit, just use the damage!
Artificer with precision and in PBS range needs a modified to-hit of 6 to hit Emalicia 50% of the time!!

[Jaid314]

1stly certain special weps are already using Int for to hit or damage,
2ndly you dont need to-hit anymore, to hit, just use the damage!
Artificer with precision and in PBS range needs a modified to-hit of 6 to hit Emalicia 50% of the time!!

you mean *a* certain weapon? which is pretty good for (some) trash, and which is less damage vs any sort of devil boss than a tier 2 pos/pos greensteel heavy repeater?

also, i keep on hearing everyone going on and on and on about the new precision. and yet, nobody seems to be able to confirm that it lost it's most crippling drawback, the fact that it pretty much always *reduces* DPS instead of increasing it due to cutting down damage per hit to half (of course, the fact that it *triples* the cooldown of spells is not exactly a great thing for an artificer either). i'm also a little bit dubious of your math... 25% from proficiency, 5% from PBS, 5% from precision... you're telling me the formula will lead to 15% more to-hit from having a modified 6 to-hit? i have my doubts.

also, you're still ignoring the fact that you *will* need a significant investment in dex to be effective in ranged combat, regardless of what you're adding to your attack bonus. if you don't have a base dex of 19 or better, you will be losing *massive* amounts of DPS in most of the game (ie vs trash). if you don't have a base dex of 21 or better, you're losing DPS against anything you don't mind getting close to. it's not like artificers can completely ignore dex without consequence. in all likelihood, using int for to-hit will add 5 points or less (typically less, and in some cases quite a bit less) to your artificer.

[Stillwaters]

i keep on hearing everyone going on and on and on about the new precision. and yet, nobody seems to be able to confirm that it lost it's most crippling drawback, the fact that it pretty much always *reduces* DPS instead of increasing it due to cutting down damage per hit to half (of course, the fact that it *triples* the cooldown of spells is not exactly a great thing for an artificer either). i'm also a little bit dubious of your math... 25% from proficiency, 5% from PBS, 5% from precision... you're telling me the formula will lead to 15% more to-hit from having a modified 6 to-hit? i have my doubts.

also, you're still ignoring the fact that you *will* need a significant investment in dex to be effective in ranged combat, regardless of what you're adding to your attack bonus. if you don't have a base dex of 19 or better, you will be losing *massive* amounts of DPS in most of the game (ie vs trash). if you don't have a base dex of 21 or better, you're losing DPS against anything you don't mind getting close to. it's not like artificers can completely ignore dex without consequence. in all likelihood, using int for to-hit will add 5 points or less (typically less, and in some cases quite a bit less) to your artificer.

Umm. speaking as someone that has dumped dex on his artificer on live for the past few months (before even hearing of this update) you are wrong! IPS does not work well with runearms charging times (runearms are a large portion of artificer damage)
Furthermore Rogue(mechanic)/3+artificer combo does use Int to hit and Int to damage on every xbow in the game!

From the latest release notes:
Precision: While using Precision mode, you gain +5% to hit, and you’re attacks penetrate 25% of their fortification. As an offensive stance this effect no longer triples spell cool downs.
Point Blank Shot: +5% to hit.

I have tested the feat on lamma and it no longer 1/2s base damage like the old precision

The old precision highlighted your error its not exactly 1/2 damage - the procs are full damage:

Precision grants +4 on to-hit rolls and bypasses 25% fortification, but damage is halved.
Base damage is halved (including damage from Sneak attack), but elemental, burst, and alignment based damage is not.

As for the 50% hit on the ranged toon - i was wrong its not 6 modified to hit.. its 7

modified to hit of 7.. vs malicia ac 68 using PBS and Precision with proficient wep (repeater under fusillade)
17.5/136 = 12.86% +25% +5% + 5% = 47.86% = (rounding) 50% = 11+ on the "fake" d20

Each ~(+7 modified to-hit) at this point will add 5% more hitchance, as it would for any attacks on any toon vs this kind of AC mob.

You also Graze on a 2+ with weapon procs!

Grazing Hits. (from ddowikki)

Player characters get a Grazing hit on misses where the natural roll is 2+. Monsters need various rolls depending on the difficulty setting of the quest: 19 on Solo, 17-19 on Normal, 15-19 on Hard, and 13-19 on Elite. The Grazing hit does damage only equal to the base damage of the weapon (such as 1d8 for a longsword) minus any Strength penalties. Damage bonuses from feats, Strength, magic weapons, and other sources do not apply to Grazing hits. Grazing hits won't work if the attacker is not proficient with the weapon, and PCs can't get them with offhand weapons.

Presently Sneak Attack damage is added to Grazing hits, although that is at odds with developer announcements.

Grazing hits are subject to Damage Reduction as usual, which can frequently reduce them to zero damage. There are additional sources of reduction to Grazing hit damage:

Player characters automatically take half as much Grazing hit damage as monsters do.
Wearing a buckler or light shield, or having the Shield spell on you, reduces Grazing hit damage by 10%. A heavy shield reduces it by 25%. A tower shield reduces it by 50%.
Centered monks get a cumulative 10% reduction to incoming Grazing hit damage every 4 levels.

Grazing hits have their own combat log message and a special icon for heads-up damage display.

[Jaid314]

mechanic 6/artificer 14 is trading in a *lot* of what artificers get, to gain what is ultimately very little. a few points of to-hit (which can be gained in various other ways) at the expense of planar weapons, blade barrier, tactical detonation, deadly weapons, reconstruct 6 dice to all your rune arms, 2 feats... uhhh... seriously? i mean, i suppose there are worse trade-offs. but that doesn't make this one a good trade-off, it just makes it a less terrible idea than splashing 6 levels of sorcerer.

also, nonsense like being unable to use IPS because of rune arm is just that: nonsense. IPS remains a massive DPS increase for most content (which involves dealing with numerous trash mobs), and allows full mobility. you can sacrifice it (and the new epic archery feats coming in the expansion), but it is a terrible idea. the fact that you have done it does not make it any less of a terrible idea, it just means that you have chosen to have an artificer that *doesn't* deal large amounts of damage to trash.

there is a reason certain design decisions are almost universally strongly recommended in DDO.

also, your ridiculous point about old precision: "oh goody, i am losing 50% of my 17d6 + 28 sneak attack melee damage, not to mention the ~40-50 regular damage, on this character, but 'thankfully' i'm not losing the 2d6 holy damage! oh joy, why that really significantly impacts the value of this feat, that i get to keep my holy damage! yay! look at me, i'm trading in 70 points of damage per hit to gain 7! what a super-smart decision!"

for all intents and purposes, you were losing 50% of your damage. keeping that comparatively puny amount gained from certain weapon procs is not a meaningful change.

and regardless, there's still the fact that you're eating triple spell cooldown. i suppose that might not bother you if you decided that you didn't need level 6 spells and splashed 6 levels of rogue so that you could gain a few points of to-hit and lose access to the most important ranged DPS feat in the game though. i mean, you already made sure you didn't have anything worth casting, right?

there will probably be some classes that want the new precision. i very much doubt artificers will be first in line, or at least not the ones that actually built for effectiveness.

[dredre9987]

mechanic 6/artificer 14 is trading in a *lot* of what artificers get, to gain what is ultimately very little. a few points of to-hit (which can be gained in various other ways) at the expense of planar weapons, blade barrier, tactical detonation, deadly weapons, reconstruct 6 dice to all your rune arms, 2 feats... uhhh... seriously? i mean, i suppose there are worse trade-offs. but that doesn't make this one a good trade-off, it just makes it a less terrible idea than splashing 6 levels of sorcerer.

also, nonsense like being unable to use IPS because of rune arm is just that: nonsense. IPS remains a massive DPS increase for most content (which involves dealing with numerous trash mobs), and allows full mobility. you can sacrifice it (and the new epic archery feats coming in the expansion), but it is a terrible idea. the fact that you have done it does not make it any less of a terrible idea, it just means that you have chosen to have an artificer that *doesn't* deal large amounts of damage to trash.

there is a reason certain design decisions are almost universally strongly recommended in DDO.

also, your ridiculous point about old precision: "oh goody, i am losing 50% of my 17d6 + 28 sneak attack melee damage, not to mention the ~40-50 regular damage, on this character, but 'thankfully' i'm not losing the 2d6 holy damage! oh joy, why that really significantly impacts the value of this feat, that i get to keep my holy damage! yay! look at me, i'm trading in 70 points of damage per hit to gain 7! what a super-smart decision!"

for all intents and purposes, you were losing 50% of your damage. keeping that comparatively puny amount gained from certain weapon procs is not a meaningful change.

and regardless, there's still the fact that you're eating triple spell cooldown. i suppose that might not bother you if you decided that you didn't need level 6 spells and splashed 6 levels of rogue so that you could gain a few points of to-hit and lose access to the most important ranged DPS feat in the game though. i mean, you already made sure you didn't have anything worth casting, right?

there will probably be some classes that want the new precision. i very much doubt artificers will be first in line, or at least not the ones that actually built for effectiveness.

As an offensive stance this effect no longer triples spell cool downs. Think you missed that....

[Chette]

It's my understanding this will be part of the enhancement revamp, likely available to halflings, rogues, and maybe rangers/monks.

As strength has a much higher potential than dex, it won't be particularly overpowering, but it will be nice for non attack/damage as their primary stat builds, such as high int assassin rogues, and high wisdom DC-based monks.

[Stillwaters]

As an offensive stance this effect no longer triples spell cool downs. Think you missed that....

He also missed the part where i noted i've TESTED it on lamma and it doesnt affect damage either

And ignored the low to-hit needed to actually hit, so the point is moot, insightful damage + repeater = win, little to no dex investment required.

some people....

If you can get <insert stat here> as a DAMAGE mod, the stat is viable for combat now!