Updated Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[FlimsyFirewood]

Also, on one of our runs Llolth spawned a teleport gate inside of the barrier that Anna needs to run through to complete the raid. Is this working as intended or just a potentially frustrating random occurence?

Working as intended. If you defeat Lolth, the soul fog "gate" goes away.

[Cordovan]

Negative feedback is fine. Insults and personal attacks against devs are not. I've had to clean up some of this thread; please remain civil when offering your feedback. Thanks!

[FlimsyFirewood]

That said, its quite possible for a paladin to tank without any mana; its just more difficult. The issue here is that the event design basically says "fighter tanks only", and for anyone making a tank the idea is generally to be able to tank... anything, all the time, thats their job.

Actually, I would consider the dedicated person "tanking" Lolth's beams for the raid to be the off-tank. I would actually expect monks and rogues (or rogue splashes) to be the best tanks for it, because of evasion and all the elemental damage. There are also a bunch of other tricks to mitigate her gorgeous eyes, but the important part is, that if the other 11 people in the raid are on top of their game, they can all have blue bars and nobody will get hit by spell point drain even once.

The potions from the store argument is silly and invalid. We sell HP potions in the store too, should our raid bosses stop hitting you in the HP? I mean, what's up with that? Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

[Gimpinator]

Is there any reason why someone would want to make a Paladin tank now?

Contrary to popular belief, this raid hasn't made Paladins suck any less than they already did. In the case of the proper intimitank, you'd be a fool to go Paladin over Fighter.

[FlimsyFirewood]

soloing my divine has taught me how to properly dodge back and forth from behind phallic objects (and other things) in order to properly dot things like beholders and such while still keeping my buffs. Mostly... Anyways... If i don't decide to run straight at the beast in order to get behind it and cast, then get behind it and cast, then get behind it and cast...

I expect that this skill, and others, will prove useful.

qft

[Spartywinz]

The potions from the store argument is silly and invalid. We sell HP potions in the store too, should our raid bosses stop hitting you in the HP? I mean, what's up with that? Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

That isn't a good comparison, internally go look at HP pots sold via store compared to SP pots sold via store QED.

Also Cure Serious sold via plat merchant , no SP potions sold via plat merchant.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Thank you for clarifying exactly what the "proper" role of Divines should be. It's nice to get the official position directly from a Dev

Sigh...

You managed to misquote me. I never said 'divines' in that post. I said healers. There is a difference. Look up some builds, talk to your guildies.

[Charononus]

The potions from the store argument is silly and invalid. We sell HP potions in the store too, should our raid bosses stop hitting you in the HP? I mean, what's up with that? Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

Flimsy it's a question of relative value for one, a csw pot costs a few pp, sp pots are not vendor purchaseable and on the ah they may be several thousand pp. This is not nessecarily a bad thing but when you have mechanics that can cause you to make a choice of wipe the raid after 40 mins inside or drink a pot most will want to drink the pot. While to some they can get buy with ah purchases some of the poorer newer players don't have the in game money for it and will resort to store pots. This "feels" like a method to get more store purchases of sp pots. The only hp type comparison I can make is if you sold heal potions in the ddo store that didn't have the downside of silver flame pots and healed for even more than the silver flame pots.

Now I want to believe that this is not a plan to get more money from the store buy creating the need for more sp pot usage but as stated above it "feels" that way. I don't think I'm alone in that or even in the minority. Because of this it creates a lot of bad pr and bad feelings for turbine that will not be good for the company or the game in the long run. I hope this explains the responses you've gotten about the sp pots to you a little better.

[Impaqt]

The potions from the store argument is silly and invalid. We sell HP potions in the store too, should our raid bosses stop hitting you in the HP? I mean, what's up with that? Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

Come on now Flimsy. There is no comparison between Spell Points and Hit Points.

There are literally dozens of ways replenish hit points in this game. there are 3 ways to get spell points back....

Shrine.....

TOrc/Con op up. (COunter productive if getting hit sucks the spell points your trying to create)

and drink Mnemonic potions.... WHich happen to be sold in the store.....

[DeadRabbat]

Actually, I would consider the dedicated person "tanking" Lolth's beams for the raid to be the off-tank.
***I would actually expect monks and rogues (or rogue splashes) to be the best tanks for it, because of evasion and all the elemental damage.***
There are also a bunch of other tricks to mitigate her gorgeous eyes, but the important part is, that if the other 11 people in the raid are on top of their game, they can all have blue bars and nobody will get hit by spell point drain even once.

I know when I lasted tested on Friday, my monk did not take damage from the eyes, or at the least, very very little. It was awesome, but I felt cheated from the build before. Where Eye beams ticked furiously, now I scoff at Lolth and her insignificant eye beams. Scoff scoff scoff.

.

[Thrudh]

In a month, the vets will have figured out how to run this raid effectively, and no one will be using SP pots...

Just like every other raid they've ever released.

"Too hard!" posts at first; "Too easy!" posts 3 months later.

[Yaga_Nub]

In a month, the vets will have figured out how to run this raid effectively, and no one will be using SP pots...

Just like every other raid they've ever released.

"Too hard!" posts at first; "Too easy!" posts 3 months later.

Why can't we ever get "Just right!" posts? Oh yeah I know why.

[xTethx]

In a month, the vets will have figured out how to run this raid effectively, and no one will be using SP pots...

Just like every other raid they've ever released.

"Too hard!" posts at first; "Too easy!" posts 3 months later.

"Too true"

[Impaqt]

except people are NOT saying its "Too hard" this time...

they are saying "This is too annoying"

Big difference.

[Spartywinz]

except people are NOT saying its "Too hard" this time...

they are saying "This is too annoying"

Big difference.

QFT

The raid isn't hard, it is annoying.

[Thrudh]

except people are NOT saying its "Too hard" this time...

they are saying "This is too annoying"

Big difference.

And once you figure it how to run it efficiently, it won't be as annoying...

There are people complaining it's too easy to get lost... THAT will change with experience for sure.

[Gimpinator]

except people are NOT saying its "Too hard" this time...

Actually the raid itself feels too easy. The biggest issues are the length and frustrating qualities like SP drain, a hand that backhands you into the abyss, escorting the AI and preventing her from taking damage.. Oh, and getting her through the first initial portal..

No one really knows how to get the "extra" chests, but if we have to max out Ana's health, you're in for a lonnnng dungeon crawl.

[Impaqt]

And once you figure it how to run it efficiently, it won't be as annoying...

There are people complaining it's too easy to get lost... THAT will change with experience for sure.

maybe.. Probably not....

thats just one of many things that makes this raid not very much fun. Look at the track record of raids in this game....

The Most popular raid in the game is.. and most likely always will be.... The Shroud.

Flagging is Predictable and consistent.

No "Pre-raid"

Every time you run it, you make progress towards your own "Raid loot".

Completion time is an average of about 30 Minutes.

if offers a variety of challenges.

It is **** near the perfect raid imo....

look at the less popular raids and why it is they dont get run...

This inspires me..... my best post ever... will be soon....

[redspecter23]

except people are NOT saying its "Too hard" this time...

they are saying "This is too annoying"

Big difference.

LoB was a hard raid when it was introduced. People learned the raid, adapted and now good players can complete it quite easily.

Annoying quests are still annoying regardless of how many times you play it or how well you know it. No amount of knowledge can make an annoying thing significantly less annoying.

The perception is that right now, the raid is easy. Compared to Lob, it certainly seems that way. If there are annoying factors that will always be there, people will simply stop running it, very, very quickly. When you design a 12 man instance that people don't like to play, those that do want to try it have trouble getting groups, whether it's pug or even guild and it becomes a dead zone. The loot would have to be super fantastic awesome to keep people coming back... +5 tome sort of awesome. Any chance you can toss us a bone on what sort of loot to expect in there? We don't even have any guarantees that loot is actually dropping in the chests. Running it on live for no reward would be outright frustrating.

Players don't mind difficult (though we'll still whine about it), but have massive issues with annoying.

[WolfSpirit]

Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

~
NO! Don't let the bosses KILL Player Characters too!

~

I would actually expect monks and rogues (or rogue splashes) to be the best tanks for it, because of evasion and all the elemental damage.

~
Hey! This shows that Rangers need some new love too!
:-)