Updated Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[murf201]

The raid sounds awesome and challenging . I enjoy when a raid requires you to be on your toes and play your part , The expansion looks well designed , The destinies are sweet , maybe alittle tinkerin there will make perfect for everyone .

But come on really i can see the challenges having the random effects maybe ! As long as you left the raid loot as normal ,tiered or craftable , And like i said in another post " Need new weopons that clearly trump anything that previously existed / wow factor ... please turn it on , Base weopons need to be powerful before we even consider the effects which seem so far to be w.e you get ..... oh well

[PNellesen]

Yeah we get it you do not want to hear that players dislike the basic design elements of this raid.

That is a risk you run when you combine multiple unpopular elements into a single raid.

Yeah - I mean, what "healer" (cough) WOULDN'T love the challenge of having to dart out from behind some "phallic" object to toss a heal on the Tank, and risking getting hit for 400+ SP by an "accidental" hit from an eyebeam or whatever it is?

(And it was originally 4000+ SP???? Are you KIDDING me? Who writes this stuff?)

[murf201]

darn i have 2 casters and i aint crying that much .......Adapt and move on , just like people have to jump on islands to avoid inferno before we found a way to live through it , obviously this is there way of making other classes viable , Its a pretty nice change up if you ask me . One quest where u can't blue bar tank and people get all kitty kat hurt .

[Havok.cry]

Work has prevented me from actually flagging for this, but I just wanted to say that not all escorting is bad. The lady in weapons shipment and the one in power play are examples of my opinion of good escort quests. As long as she isnt pathetic like coyle or rediculously slow like many other escortees its all good to me.

And mazes are awesome, I love mazes.

Not everyone hates the very idea of this raid... Even with the SP damage.

[cypan41]

Ah this was a gem.

Please don't get me wrong, Cyr. The five points I mentioned in my post are valid, actionable feedback that I came here to hear. That was the whole point of my reading feedback forums. How positive or negative that feedback is, is irrelevant. The important part is feedback.

Obviously they don't care about negative feedback. Just look at the 70+ page "Hard to kill" post.

[WolfSpirit]

To summarize the thread:

1. I/We/Everybody/Some Players hate escort quests
2. Spell point damage really?
3. I/We/Everybody/Some Players hate mazes
4. There was one person who wondered about something being WAI, and it was.
5. Too annoying/Not enough challenge

We now return you to the regular scheduled broadcasting.

~
This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is Frustration with about 10% of the 5%. And I truly feel your pain FF. I'm a Customer Specialist myself (Though not currently employed), I've felt the stress of a huge project coming to light with fear/doubt/hostility from "customers" about said project.
I can almost feel the stress in many posts of nearly every employee over there!*
I wish I could have attended and given you actual useful feedback man. Next go around I'll cross my fingers that everything is working beforehand for me and give my best silver lining with good comments/feedback without over doing the negitive.
For this project, the light is shining brightly at the end of the tunnel. I'm sure LOTS of "fixing" or whatever coming up after release but at least the BIG part is over.
You need a Vacation for sure. Take the kids camping/swimming or whatever you like. Maybe just a Dark, Quiet and peaceful place to relax!

*No actual threads, posts, or examples will be given to support said statement besides quoted post above.
Please dont flame me 10%ers of the 5%.
Also, kittens and sporks are a potental dinner disaster.

[Drakesblood]

Here is my feed-back on running the "Up-dated" Lolth raid:

• There is some new lighting and some more objects placed on the map that makes it less boring to look at. What would of been nice would to include the ice part of the demon web from one of the quests as well as acid/lava pools from the others so people can have more land marks keep the the place from looking to boring.
• Ana seems to have conflicting pathing issues, when told to ignore orbs/mobs she runs back and forth from the player leading her and orbs/mobs like she wants to break/attack but does not.
• Ana does NOT like hiding behind objects to get out of Lolths line of sight. Could we have her at least when not in aggressive mode to seek cover and not stand dumbly in front of Lolth.
• When ambushes happen with Ana all the spies and casters auto target Ana right off the bat, please have here be the last on the aggro table when there is other targets like with Lolth. It's hard to intim archers who are far from the party.
• I do enjoy that there is now a form a mitigation to Lolths beams, and there shorter so I won't get picked off form across the map without a healer.
• Lolth's hit box needs to be closer to edges where people can melee her, nothing is sadder then watching a barbarian try to hit Lolth with adrenalin fueled throwing stars.

To bad Ana is not like a hireling and can move her behind rocks and objects to avoid damage and Lolth. Also fix it so people can intim her or hit her with a melee weapon, right now she can only be hit with range attacks/spells. As for casters hiding behind rocks and objects, if there top of the threat list they will get hit by Lolths beams if they cast line of sight stuff. Also Lolths eye beams seem to go through some objects if you where hit and then dove for cover behind objects and out of line of sight.

Hope this helps, just wish it did not take 14(18) quests to flag for this raid... But the story is the best I have ever seen and better then the raid it self in many ways!

[amnota]

So, we have a Coyle/Arlos raid with Mindsunder/DT loot............I can hardly wait.

[Schmoe]

Here is my feed-back on running the "Up-dated" Lolth raid:

• There is some new lighting and some more objects placed on the map that makes it less boring to look at. What would of been nice would to include the ice part of the demon web from one of the quests as well as acid/lava pools from the others so people can have more land marks keep the the place from looking to boring.
• Ana seems to have conflicting pathing issues, when told to ignore orbs/mobs she runs back and forth from the player leading her and orbs/mobs like she wants to break/attack but does not.
• Ana does NOT like hiding behind objects to get out of Lolths line of sight. Could we have her at least when not in aggressive mode to seek cover and not stand dumbly in front of Lolth.
• When ambushes happen with Ana all the spies and casters auto target Ana right off the bat, please have here be the last on the aggro table when there is other targets like with Lolth. It's hard to intim archers who are far from the party.
• I do enjoy that there is now a form a mitigation to Lolths beams, and there shorter so I won't get picked off form across the map without a healer.
• Lolth's hit box needs to be closer to edges where people can melee her, nothing is sadder then watching a barbarian try to hit Lolth with adrenalin fueled throwing stars.

To bad Ana is not like a hireling and can move her behind rocks and objects to avoid damage and Lolth. Also fix it so people can intim her or hit her with a melee weapon, right now she can only be hit with range attacks/spells. As for casters hiding behind rocks and objects, if there top of the threat list they will get hit by Lolths beams if they cast line of sight stuff. Also Lolths eye beams seem to go through some objects if you where hit and then dove for cover behind objects and out of line of sight.

Hope this helps, just wish it did not take 14(18) quests to flag for this raid... But the story is the best I have ever seen and better then the raid it self in many ways!

Seriously.

[Nick_RC]

Chette:

Agree with 95% of ur posts - but the sp drain is really a non issue. You contribute more outside of the eye beams. We will likely be putting the guilds resident gimp rogue in the line of fire. My main is a battle cleric typ-(most to lose) if I'm not worried about it none of y'all should.

Flimsy:

Epic elite is a beast. Nice scaling. Had my head kicked in multiple times. Was wonderfully refreshing. Looking forward to getting smashed up again come Monday. Please do away with the random loot.

N

[Chette]

Chette:

Agree with 95% of ur posts - but the sp drain is really a non issue. You contribute more outside of the eye beams. We will likely be putting the guilds resident gimp rogue in the line of fire. My main is a battle cleric typ-(most to lose) if I'm not worried about it none of y'all should.

Flimsy:

Epic elite is a beast. Nice scaling. Had my head kicked in multiple times. Was wonderfully refreshing. Looking forward to getting smashed up again come Monday. Please do away with the random loot.

N

Hey Nick, I didn't really have an issue with the SP drain, rather I had an issue with how the issue was responded to (yo dog, I heard you like issues). I was more asking that the devs not simply hand-wave away peoples feedback if they didn't like it, and maybe take a customer service training course.

I tend to not be very good at describing what I'm saying to myself in my head. I could probably use a customer service training course myself

[Jaid314]

Hey Nick, I didn't really have an issue with the SP drain, rather I had an issue with how the issue was responded to (yo dog, I heard you like issues). I was more asking that the devs not simply hand-wave away peoples feedback if they didn't like it, and maybe take a customer service training course.

I tend to not be very good at describing what I'm saying to myself in my head. I could probably use a customer service training course myself

indeed. whether or not the SP drain is an actual problem, it is completely absurd to compare SP potions to various HP potions and act like there's no difference. if the devs are thinking that the two are comparable, then they need to be told it is not the same thing at all (in much the same way as there was a sudden massive influx of people who urgently wanted the devs to know that we *don't* enjoy random raid loot in the U14 loot thread after a dev suggested it was going to be fun for us; it's not so much that it's a horrible problem that challenge loot is largely vendor trash given we can ignore it, but we don't want the devs designing the game around the assumption that we enjoy vendor trash for raid loot. in much the same way, we don't want the devs to design the game around the assumption that SP pots are trivial to obtain, and a nigh-infinite resource that everyone can easily get, and correcting any indication that the devs might be thinking that way is worthwhile whether it is how the raid functions or not).

[sephiroth1084]

Too many players just find "dying" annoying, they only want to win and have an easy time in everything. I'm glad you disagree with them

I agree, Axer.

Holy ****! I agree with Axer!

Honestly, I find that one of the biggest problems with making the game more challenging is that too many players get so bent out of shape over the possibility of dying more often--they just never want to die, they want to coast through content, get fed their reward, and come back for seconds. It makes discussing anything that makes the game a little more difficult, or require a little more planning and skill all but impossible.

And death in this game is such a minor inconvenience most of the time!

I'm glad that the devs don't necessarily allow the revulsion many players have to dying whatsoever to completely govern the design of content, though I wish we'd get a little more going the other way. The game needs to get more challenging, not less.

I know this is off topic, and this raid is largely a step in the direction that I'm in favor of (though I dislike escort quests and dislike many of the mazes in the game--I like Crucible, I dislike A New Invasion and Bastion of Power), but I feel like this needs to be applied to more content and to more mechanics.

[Havok.cry]

No offense to anyone here, but anyone who thinks the devs need better customer service needs to grow up and get overthemselves. As a customer service professional, I can honestly say I have yet to meet a single person actually say that to me who didnt need someone to kick the living daylights out of their arrogent... Ok Im going to stop there before the mods have to bleep out this whole post, but you get the picture. No the devs do not need to be subservient, and kowtow to the every whim of the players. Ok stopping

Disclaimer: my opinion, no offense intended, but I feel strongly about it.

[Nick_RC]

Hey Nick, I didn't really have an issue with the SP drain, rather I had an issue with how the issue was responded to (yo dog, I heard you like issues). I was more asking that the devs not simply hand-wave away peoples feedback if they didn't like it, and maybe take a customer service training course.

I tend to not be very good at describing what I'm saying to myself in my head. I could probably use a customer service training course myself

Ah gotcha. Was more skimming and saw concerns about the beams and thought that may have been the issue. My bad. Trying not to read the forums all that much of late -had an absolute blast playing on lama-and there are just too many posts killin my buzz hehe. The expansion isn't perfect- not by a long shot, some of the changes I hated at first but meh whatever. Just looking forward to smashing stuff. And gdamn EE spell res is high in the raid! Glad I pack a sword on my divine(well wraps most likely now). Gluck to you and your crew raid day. EE or go home! Hell we even managed to muster up 9 guildies of our roster of 12 or so -gonna be fun. Hopefully we and everyone else get curb stomped on EE. The sheer amount of deaths will be glorious.

N

[MrkGrismer]

One thing that has really bothered me about DDO's escort quests is that the vital NPC is not added to the party list where his/her HP percentage can be seen at all times. Other games like Guild Wars add vital NPCs to the party list. Possibly unrelated, but it is also really annoying that when you select a party member in DDO, their blue dot on the map does not highlight.

For a healer that has to actually keep up multiple targets, it is a significant and frustrating annoyance to try to find, re-select, and make sure your escort is not blocked (especially one on the move). A change like this would make Hold for Reinforcements, HoX, and a quest like this new raid far less annoying. (Other quests: Gladewatch Outpost, Bookbinder Rescue, A Small Problem, etc.)

I fully support the above feedback and wish to regurgitate it here.

(Gladewatch the package always ends up in the weeds, since that is where the spawn points are, kind of annoying)

[furbyoats]

I cannot comment on the raid design/mechanics as I have not yet run the quest. However, I do have major problems with the proposed loot mechanic on raid items. Playing the lottery with raid items is a very verrrry bad way to gain interest. Look at LoB and MA. People will run LoB to make items because they know they are making progress. Hardly anyone runs MA (let alone on hard or above because there is simply no reason to with the loot table. You get the same blanks running it on normal and that's all you wanted in the first place.) except when they need a new blank that will take a minimum of 3 LoB runs (if you get insanely lucky) on varying difficulties to complete.

Look, not everyone is going to like new changes...and I am skeptical about whether I will like the xpack or not. I think the EDs look very fun and the few new quests that I have run seem like they can give a decent amount of challenge and gear. But the raid...the end all of the xpack, should not have a loot mechanic based on random generation. If this is the case then CitW will just turn into another MA. A raid that people do a few times to say they completed it and never came back because the payout is little to nothing.

Keep the current raid mechanic as long as the NPC can be reasonably handled (test the **** out of this), but please reconsider how the loot is handled.

Thanks

[Gunga]

Because a player "hiding behind a rock" is not contributing to the quest, particularly since they explicitly said that casters (who would presumably be wanting to contribute to the quest) would have a much harder time.

They could have taken two minutes to provide some sort of reasonable explanation for how they thought that the mechanism could work within a balanced party, but nope...hide behind a rock..oh and don't try casting.

Don't you hide behind a rock in the Dragon?

[Gunga]

Ah gotcha. Was more skimming and saw concerns about the beams and thought that may have been the issue. My bad. Trying not to read the forums all that much of late -had an absolute blast playing on lama-and there are just too many posts killin my buzz hehe. The expansion isn't perfect- not by a long shot, some of the changes I hated at first but meh whatever. Just looking forward to smashing stuff. And gdamn EE spell res is high in the raid! Glad I pack a sword on my divine(well wraps most likely now). Gluck to you and your crew raid day. EE or go home! Hell we even managed to muster up 9 guildies of our roster of 12 or so -gonna be fun. Hopefully we and everyone else get curb stomped on EE. The sheer amount of deaths will be glorious.

N

Nick.

[Ape_Man]

For the last time, spell point damage in this raid is not meant to suck TP right out of your account. . . .

So will the next raid do damage that sucks TP out of your account? That'll truly be fiendish.

I kid, I kid.