Updated Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[DagazUlf]

I think I am at a loss as to the design goal of this quest. It seems that since online gaming is in the entertainment industry, something like the capstone quest to an entire expansion pack would have "entertainment" as part of the design goal.

However, all I personally get out of my runs of this quest is "frustration and annoyance". It sounds like many who are posting feel the same way. From the player perspective, the quest certainly appears designed simply with this purpose (to be as frustrating for players as possible). The aspects of the quest chosen to be challenging are just hurtful and somewhat mean-spirited toward the playerbase.

The amalgamation of almost every encounter/situation in the game that players rate as low in entertainment value, is just really not the way to achieve a challenging and entertaining quest. It should not be suprising to see such backlash.

[redspecter23]

The amalgamation of almost every encounter/situation in the game that players rate as low in entertainment value, is just really not the way to achieve a challenging and entertaining quest. It should not be suprising to see such backlash.

Don't give them any ideas. There aren't any respawning red named air elementals in there... yet.

[darthhento]

Actually, I would consider the dedicated person "tanking" Lolth's beams for the raid to be the off-tank. I would actually expect monks and rogues (or rogue splashes) to be the best tanks for it, because of evasion and all the elemental damage. There are also a bunch of other tricks to mitigate her gorgeous eyes, but the important part is, that if the other 11 people in the raid are on top of their game, they can all have blue bars and nobody will get hit by spell point drain even once. ~snip~

Oh, and evasionists will surely be more than happy to be chasing beams that don't affect them instead of bashing on mobs? Again, annoying mechanic that doesn't make anyone happy.

And no, they're not gonna have all blue bars in the raid, any pug is gonna make it melee heavy cause they'll be annoyed at babysitting beams for the blue bars.

Overall bad raid design IMHO.

[Ape_Man]

except people are NOT saying its "Too hard" this time...

they are saying "This is too annoying"

Big difference.

Abbot.

[Ape_Man]

And once you figure it how to run it efficiently, it won't be as annoying...

There are people complaining it's too easy to get lost... THAT will change with experience for sure.

LOB, MA, and Abbot are still annoying and un-fun.

Has Titan ever stopped being annoying?

[rdasca]

I think I am at a loss as to the design goal of this quest. It seems that since online gaming is in the entertainment industry, something like the capstone quest to an entire expansion pack would have "entertainment" as part of the design goal.

However, all I personally get out of my runs of this quest is "frustration and annoyance". It sounds like many who are posting feel the same way. From the player perspective, the quest certainly appears designed simply with this purpose (to be as frustrating for players as possible). The aspects of the quest chosen to be challenging are just hurtful and somewhat mean-spirited toward the playerbase.

The amalgamation of almost every encounter/situation in the game that players rate as low in entertainment value, is just really not the way to achieve a challenging and entertaining quest. It should not be suprising to see such backlash.

Most people were expecting the next shroud, a raid with multiple challenges, a raid that gives everyone something to do and a raid that requires a bit of teamwork to complete.

What we got was Super Coyle, that alone is enough to irritate most players, but then add in all the “fun” stuff and things go downhill fast.

[sweez]

Healers, on the other hand, will have the easiest time avoiding this damage altogether. We left plenty of rocks and other random phallic objects for you guys to hide behind.

So your idea of divines is 'someone who hides behind rocks'? Nice.

[Impaqt]

So your idea of divines is 'someone who hides behind rocks'? Nice.

No. Only "Healers"

[sweez]

Geez...It's one raid people; lighten up.

Yep, and Turbine is famous for churning out raids quickly... oh, wait.

[smatt]

Soloing my divine has taught me how to properly dodge back and forth from behind phallic objects (and other things) in order to properly DOT things like beholders and such while still keeping my buffs. Mostly... anyways... if I don't decide to run straight at the beast in order to get behind it and cast, then get behind it and cast, then get behind it and cast...

I expect that this skill, and others, will prove useful.

I do hope that there will be more torc/con-op like objects in the raid loot, seems only fair.

Wait a minute... You mean using tacitcs other than running straight on in and beating the snot out of a mob is required? Nobody told me there would be tactics.....

[slimkj]

The potions from the store argument is silly and invalid. We sell HP potions in the store too, should our raid bosses stop hitting you in the HP? I mean, what's up with that? Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

From me it wasn't an argument, more an observation of how it might be received. Dispute it if you want but I think some of customer base think differently to you.

You must realise the two things things you describe are not at all the same:

DDO Store HP potions

• Effect on a single character.
• Contribution to determining success of raid minimal to zero.
• Minor benefit: small number of HP returned, cooldown timer and incoming dmg mean barely useful to mitigate gameplay systems.

DDO Store SP potions

• Affects one character but allows subsequent effect on all other party members (through spells).
• Contribution to determining success of raid can be pivotal.
• Major benefit: large number of SP returned, very useful to mitigate gameplay systems.

[Malky]

Personal D0000M! level = 13%

OMG what happened ? a 34% swing really ? REALLY ??

[Drwaz99]

The potions from the store argument is silly and invalid. We sell HP potions in the store too, should our raid bosses stop hitting you in the HP? I mean, what's up with that? Next thing you know, they might even kill you.

Your comparing apples and oranges. Potions that heal (Light, Moderate, Serious and Silver Flame) are all available within the game from a multitude of sources. You can loot then, buy them at a potion vendor, breakables drop them or acquire them through favor. All of these options reasonably easy and cheap to acquire. Mana Potions on the other hand are only available through loot drops, the AH at (sometimes) inflated prices or the eStore. Being able to buy heal potions at vendors render Mana Potions in a different league.

I'm sorry, but to compare these two items, although they are semi-similar is well, 'silly'. And do you really expect me to believe that if the plan was to bump the sale of mana potions using this tactic, you would be straight forward and tell us? Come on. No way.

I know some hardcore vets won't agree with me, but I do know a majority of others will.

Please note: I am not advocating the addition of mana potions to vendors. That's not the cause of this post.

[Cyr]

Your comparing apples and oranges. Potions that heal (Light, Moderate, Serious and Silver Flame) are all available within the game from a multitude of sources. You can loot then, buy them at a potion vendor, breakables drop them or acquire them through favor. All of these options reasonably easy and cheap to acquire. Mana Potions on the other hand are only available through loot drops, the AH at (sometimes) inflated prices or the eStore. Being able to buy heal potions at vendors render Mana Potions in a different league.

I'm sorry, but to compare these two items, although they are semi-similar is well, 'silly'.

I know some hardcore vets won't agree with me, but I do know a majority of others will.

Please note: I am not advocating the addition of mana potions to vendors. That's not the cause of this post.

Yeah, comparing the two is preposterous.

[Malky]

DDO Store SP potions

• Contribution to determining success of raid can be pivotal.

The best pot is the one you don't chug.

[MrkGrismer]

The Most popular raid in the game is.. and most likely always will be.... The Shroud.

Every time you run it, you make progress towards your own "Raid loot".

Completion time is an average of about 30 Minutes.
It is **** near the perfect raid imo....

look at the less popular raids and why it is they dont get run...

This inspires me..... my best post ever... will be soon....

Most probably green steel is really the only reason it is the most popular raid in the game, because green steel is an order of magnitude 'better' than anything else in the game until recently (arguably epics items and alchemical might be better, but those are pretty recent and epic grind was worse than green steel grind). But the grind to make green steel made it so you had to be running shroud as much as possible.

The lesson to be learned there is that it is a plus to have continual progress toward getting the raid loot (and with tradeable drops yet), but I don't think I would read much more into it than that.

[xTethx]

This thread went from minor feedback to doom very quickly.....

[furbyoats]

So...raid loot?

[Ape_Man]

OMG what happened ? a 34% swing really ? REALLY ??

Yeah, because even if the raid sucks I'll still have fun as there will be so much to do getting my toons up to 25 with a bunch of EDs under their belts. The end-game gear grind is done, XP that never ends is a good thing for DDO.

The game play dynamics don't play on bad nearly in game as they look on paper and I'm especially getting amused at the monk-whining. Really most of that d000m was from the changes being explained incompletely and poorly.

The remaining 13% d0000m level is there are still some majorly annoying bugs I haven't seen fixed and the terribly inconsistent documentation.

Don't get me wrong, I want the raid to not suck but it's not the end of the world if it does. Plenty of raids suck in DDO, plenty of raids also DON'T suck in DDO. I'll have fun playing the content that doesn't suck and if it means the new raid is off the rotation so be it.

[XbaileyX]

So...raid loot?

kookie dropped us a few toys, they are in the U14 loot thread.