Updated Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[Drwaz99]

Oh man..I'm not sure I want to know..

But I assume if one had, it would have been posted as everyone like being first!

[danotmano1998]

I'd say that's the point they're trying to get across. <snip>

Yes, but this is NOT the way to do that.
Make the enemy do an on-hit silence (that you get recurring saves), or make it an on-hit stun (that you get saves), or make the boss immune to spells lower than "X" level, or one of a dozen other mechanics that are ALREADY in place here in DDO.

Taking away SP just makes people look at their resources and into their wallets.
Bad mechanic on top of bad mechanic on top of another bad mechanic, IMO.

[Cyr]

Oh man..I'm not sure I want to know..

But I assume if one had, it would have been posted as everyone like being first!

More like it was bugged and not dropping loot before are we really sure it's not bugged still...

[Drwaz99]

More like it was bugged and not dropping loot before are we really sure it's not bugged still...

Your my own personal sniper today!

I believe they said the loot bug would have been fixed yesterday..I dunno if it was..I doubt it.

edit..dammit, I need coffee. I was trying to ensue, if it was still bugged I didn't want to know. Too frustrating.

[Rizzia]

I wasnt complaining per se before, just making an observation. I mean I can see whats intended, but since theres alot of paladin tanks about its a lil shortsighted.

I think the respawning red named mistresses were more annoying that the spell point damage. Had 2 on 1 island at one point, 1 sacrificed the other, went to full health, but the 2nd wasnt killed in the proccess!

So did any raid loot drop?

Didnt complete, got to the sealed door but got fed up after ana got teleported back twice. (Extreme short manned tho, only really went in to explore it)

[BananaHat]

Encouraging a melee to tank lolth instead of caster is unfun?

not in my book. Melees are meant to be the tanks.

So... paladin and rangers just have to lose all of their (fine, most since paladins get LoH) self healing ability here? Do they not qualify as melees? You can argue a ranger shouldn't tank even though they can and evasion is nice for a tank, but the DDO devs have solidly put paladins in the "tank" category. I really dislike the MMOification of DDO and the attempt to force everyone into the holy trinity because it is easy to design for. I do understand some of the need because this is an MMO, but it is one that is built on flexibility and customizability, don't take that away.

It might be better to think of Lolth as an encounter that discourages self healing through SP and other "regen" tanks. We have bosses that discourage hitpoint tanks by having effects you don't want to get hit with and non-evasion tanks by having lots of reflex spells, so having one discourage "SP" tanks isn't that far of a stretch.

If 250 seems too high, maybe the devs could lower the number to something like 50 and put a temporary stacking debuff to max sp of 200, discouraging you from getting hit several times if you have a sp bar and if your max drops below your current sp, you lose those too. I agree that 250 sounds large, but I have not personally played the raid yet.

I want to take Shade's word that it is easy to control aggro there, but he could easily mean you just simply engage your cosmic magneto-plasma hyperdrive to travel back in time to kick over Lolth's sand castle when she was a child thus insuring her wanting to attack you today. Not everyone has a CMPH, knows how to drive it through time, or where Lolth liked to vacation as a child. Easy for Shade does not mean easy for a lot of people, you are quite the player from what I've read. I fully expect many sp bars to be drained by this attack because nobody can swap aggro properly.

[Shade]

I want to take Shade's word that it is easy to control aggro there, but he could easily mean you just simply engage your cosmic magneto-plasma hyperdrive to travel back in time to kick over Lolth's sand castle when she was a child thus insuring her wanting to attack you today. Not everyone has a CMPH, knows how to drive it through time, or where Lolth liked to vacation as a child. Easy for Shade does not mean easy for a lot of people, you are quite the player from what I've read. I fully expect many sp bars to be drained by this attack because nobody can swap aggro properly.

She has standard AI like any monster. You go in first - you get agro, you hit her, you intim her, these things generate hate, and she stays on you. Simple as that. No random agro like some bosses, and no super advanced skill required.

The hard part will be getting people to not run in front of the tank when you need to run by her to the next area. As the dmg isn't really AOE, but it you can take a hit if you run into the line of fire.

Also you'll want two several tanks, another one for the hand, and another one for anna.. Else the hand might knock the main tank out of position, then lolths going straight for the healers =)

And thanks for the compliment.

I'll post up a full strategy guide on how to beat this with no potions soon. I'm confident most players will be able to manage it on normal without optional at least.

[Shade]

So... paladin and rangers just have to lose all of their (fine, most since paladins get LoH) self healing ability here?

Rangers aren't exactly tanks imo.

Paladins certainly can be, but um paladins can actaully self heal quite excellent with zero SP, better then any other tank class in fact.

You might want to check out the unyielding sentinel tree. It has some pretty awesome self healing that does not require SP. Some of the other destinies have these too, you could build a very powerful self healing tank paladin that does not rely on SP that could survive her beams without a single scroll or SF pot i bet.

Besides that, her damage is not so high, it can be self healed through via silver flame potions on any decent hp tank.

[Shade]

Also i love that its random energy damage now too, that really gives a purpose to this enhancements:

Block energy (min level: 20) (3 ranks - 1 AP): (Passive) While blocking, absorb [10/20/30]% acid, cold, electric, fire, force, light and sonic damage

So get the Sentinel tank up in her face, intim and hit her once or twice, then back off somewhere safe and shield block her energy damage. Very cool to finally have block do something against her!

Also could twist in this one or have another player cast it on you:
Elemental absorption (required 12 - Prereq: Fey form 1) (3 rank - 1 AP): (Active Cooldown: 2mins) Target ally received 5% reduced damage from fire, cold, electric, acid and sonic. Two uses per rest. Lasts until rest

Lots more cool options now its not purely force dmg.

[Shade]

Though on the topic of mana:
I would like to see some more logical/fun way of getting back SP in this raid.

ATM, its purely from ana giving you rest shrines. But exactly how that works seems unclear.. Pretty sure its based on her health, but that means a single mistake (which will cost u a lot of SP in the first place) can mean she can never make you a shrine.. So your sort of double punished for the error.

I'd like to see her always able to give at least one shrine at some point in the raid, and maybe something to beat on in the end fight to restore a bit of sp like the dragon fight. Could have it very resistant to energy/light/force dmg, and moderate DR/AC so it encourages the melees to work with the casters to help fill there sp back up for the final push.

Because that optional does seem incredibly long (If teth was at it 6 hours and didnt win it lol, fear it mortals.. ppl call me a good player, but teth is master of getting raids done fast), and im not sure how many shrines anna can give out atm, but i doubt its gona be enough for EE mode heh.

[Drwaz99]

I'll post up a full strategy guide on how to beat this with no potions soon. I'm confident most players will be able to manage it on normal without optional at least.

We may not have even seen the final iteration yet. I think something like this may be premature and may send people down the wrong track. What we see now could very well be vastly different than what they have in their internal builds. (or it could be exactly the same, we just don't know for sure)

[DeadRabbat]

Sadly, it doesn't appear that I will be able to test any more on Beta. I still can't get past the game data screen. Everything thing else is fine with DDO now but my Lama client & not gonna dl another for these last few days.

Good luck those that continue.

[Shade]

We may not have even seen the final iteration yet. I think something like this may be premature and may send people down the wrong track. What we see now could very well be vastly different than what they have in their internal builds. (or it could be exactly the same, we just don't know for sure)

Multiple devs have stated they are on feature lockdown atm. No feature/gameplay changes are allowed. So what we see now is exactly whats going live. At most there will be some more bug fixes.

Flimsy did say he will be changing stuffs, but that will be for U14p1.

And it's hardly premature. I've devised strategies of my own for every single other raid in the game, and done guides for several of them, so even if they don't release this and come out with an entirely different one, i'd still get a guide up eventually.

[FlimsyFirewood]

We're working really hard on this raid right now. There will be some changes, some of them you might not even hate.

But spell point damage stays. Its function is punitive: if you get zapped for spell point damage (and you have a mana bar), then you were clearly in the wrong place at the wrong time. Further, this damage is much, much higher on elite and hard. It's statted as "something skilled players will never get hit with". There's a pattern for people to learn and follow. This is raid content and it will require people to exhibit a certain level of skill to be successful.

Healers, on the other hand, will have the easiest time avoiding this damage altogether. We left plenty of rocks and other random phallic objects for you guys to hide behind. I expect casters and ranged dpsers to have a harder time with this.

Paladins and melee fvs will still be viable because there will be plenty of things for them to tank and beat down, besides Lolth, and the raid will require multiple tanks. It's just one of these tanks should probably not have a mana bar if he or she likes blue pixels on their screen.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Loot should be in by now.

[danotmano1998]

We left plenty of rocks and other random phallic objects for you guys to hide behind.

I try to steer clear of those. This is by design.
(rofl)

[SableShadow]

some of them you might not even hate.

Throwing down the gauntlet, eh?

rocks

and other random phallic objects

Boston must be an ... interesting place.

[Drwaz99]

Multiple devs have stated they are on feature lockdown atm. No feature/gameplay changes are allowed. So what we see now is exactly whats going live. At most there will be some more bug fixes.

Flimsy did say he will be changing stuffs, but that will be for U14p1.

And it's hardly premature. I've devised strategies of my own for every single other raid in the game, and done guides for several of them, so even if they don't release this and come out with an entirely different one, i'd still get a guide up eventually.

Might want to check your sources right below your post. "Multiple Sources". That's what the press use when they have none.

[Silverleafeon]

Nods solemnly and looking forward to the next two updates with hope...

Perhaps the developers may want to research this spell for the future:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Time_Stop

Wishing you all the best, and knowing its crunch time.

[Auran82]

Please give Lolth an attack that dispels rages, drops the number of action boosts and rages you have left while you are at it, so the Rangers, Paladins and Melee FvSs have something to tank.