All the "New" Dragons. They need fixed.

[Shade]

I've only been hit with Shock and Awe once per battle with the new dragons at the start of the battles. On artificer was knocked down but quickly got back up, my barbarian took longer to get up because poor balance, and my air savant was sent flying across the room when it was hit but was otherwise unphased. Really sounds like somethings glitched with the latest build for it to be spammed.

Um no, you got hit a million times with it.

It only shows up above your head once, because after its on you, its on you forever (the snare has about a 10 second duration) as the dragon spams it constantly a lot more often then 10s, and it wont show again above your head because you already have it, and hes just extending the duration.

Nothing new with the wing buffet knockback though all dragons but Velah currently have an unsavable knockback wingblast. Even air savants and acrobats are sent flying away from it. Sinvala and the White Dragons in Reavers are infamous for using it as much as possible.

Incorrect. Velah, and the Tor Dragons do not have ANY no save abilities. Velah and the Tor dragons are fun and challlenging.
Velahs buffet: Str/Dex save to negate knockdown (DC20)
Velahs buff damage portion: Reflex save for half bludgeoning damage (evasion negates)
(ok there is one exception: The white dragon has an AOE icy aura that slows you slightly - less then shock and awe tho, no save. The black and blue have nothing without saves)

Also PRR will apply to velahs wing buffet in the beta now as its bludgeoning.

Sinvala and White dragons in prey are almost equally annoying and just result in you letting them force you into a corner so the buffet has no effect, or ussing some exploit.. Cheese mechanics to win? not fun. They at least don't have the no-save snare though, so your movement is not totally messed up.

[Vengeance777]

Um no, you got hit a million times with it.

Pretty sure the game would crash if that happened. LOL

As far as I could tell on my Barbarian only got hit once with it. I never noticed a slow down or knockdown after the first one when the red dragon landed on him in the challenge. I was not solo though. Maybe the dragon only does the effect when the melee have aggro.

Anyway will adapt to this new challenge if I have to, just made a Greater Dragon bane thrower.

[Shade]

So - a different question.

Did you succeed? Solo?

Both times?

Yes, and its not just "both times"

Ive played the beta extensively and killed every "new tech" dragon 6+ times each. Most were not solo, but i have solo'd all of them on both of my chars i played (sorc and bbn)

I generally take my sorc since its annoyingly unfun to do on a melee. Not challenging, just unfun.

Hell I've even killed epic elite velah on my bbn, that was silly too, though for different reasons, which are listed in the known issues.

[eris2323]

Yes, and its not just "both times"

Ive played the beta extensively and killed every dragon 6+ times each. Most were not solo, but i have solo'd all of them on both of my chars i played (sorc and bbn)

I generally take my sorc since its annoyingly stupid to do on a melee. Not challenging, just stupid.

Hell I've even killed epic elite velah on my bbn, that was dumb too, though for different reasons, which are listed in the known issues.

Still Sounds too easy for Shade.... therefore, the whole game must change....

We should probably buff all dragons.

If you were able to solo them, totally sounds like they need a buff.

[xrampage]

If I was your DM, the Dragon will remain in the air and just breathe on you until you're dead. Which is perfectly acceptable if you say "by the rules".

+1 for that

[Ape_Man]

No save mechanics have no place in DDO. They always were a hallmark of lazy and bad design.

Agreed. if it's anything like the air elementals currently are it's just annoying and un-fun.

[Shade]

So long as their abilities are on a timer so they can't be spammed constantly, I have no problem with no saves on a few special attacks.
If they ARE spammed like mad then that is another issue. It can be fixed though. I remember reading dev comments that certain panther abilities would be put on timers.

How about a no save breath taht hits the whole room, deals no damage but disables spell casting for 10 minutes. Could have a 30 minute cooldown.

Youd have "no problem" with that and all since it isn't spammable.

[terrenceknight1]

No save abilities are just asinine period. Especially when spammed. Mobs should get cool downs on their abilities, I'm looking at you air elementals my monk hates you longtime.

[Kawai]

I'm sorry Shade, I have to kind of disagree with the overall concept.

This is, after all, Dungeons and Dragons...
And, while it might just be a simple point that I'm trying to make, the Dragons should be the end all-be all in this game. The ultimate goal.

We should all come out of there sweating and frustrated more often than not.

...Epic Barbarian? Dragon trumps solo Barbarian. Epic Dragon trumps solo Epic Barbarian

I don't see an issue.

If I was your DM, the Dragon will remain in the air and just breathe on you until you're dead. Which is perfectly acceptable if you say "by the rules".

...and THAT made my day.... +1 for the laugh of the day, sweety.

[Vengeance777]

How about a no save breath taht hits the whole room, deals no damage but disables spell casting for 10 minutes. Could have a 30 minute cooldown.

Youd have "no problem" with that and all since it isn't spammable.

That actually does sound like a fun mechanic. You could make it like the anti magic ability of the beholders and MA Titan. Would make the battles fun for the casters making us think outside the box.

"You are covered in corrosive poison or burning embers your eyes and skin sting, you find it impossible to concentrate. You can not cast for the duration of the effect."

Not sure if it should effect divine casting or not though. I'm thinking it should but then the party might wipe with no heals.
Maybe have it effect the inherent casting but not casting from scrolls and wands? That way Divine could still heal the melees/ranged dps with scrolls. I have no problem pulling out a Returning Greater Dragon Bane thrower for the duration of the debuff on my casters. So long as the debuff goes away when the Dragon is killed.

[patang01]

Who loves no-save abilities? I meant tahts what we all beeen asking for when we think "awesome new dragon tech" we saw fernando talkin bout in those exciting motu previs videos ya?

Every "new" style dragon has very unfair annoying no save abilities:
"SHOCK AND AWE" (yes its written in all caps like that in the game too) - No save knockback+ Snare. (Also knocks you down as if that wasnt enough, tho KD portion allows a balance check to negate).
Wing Buffet - No save knockback.

Please no. Add saves. Thankyous.

/Sign unless you love no save abilities that unfairly punish the least powerful classes, and you dont like puppies.

so signed

[Tholar]

Think air elementals infused with plutonium

If an elemental infused with plutonium were to launch me at 88 miles an hour would I travel through time?

Just asking.

[J1NG]

Shade,

That's right, I am one in so many in this game and no one of consequence.

But I found the dragon fight fun. Is that wrong now simply because you found it unfun?

Of course not.

There are others out there, like me, who have not had the same unhappiness dealing with this unsavable ability, because a we've been playing the game and experienced the numerous (W T H is wrong with turbine in making this ability unsavable?) in the game. Stuff which from what you're writing, you may have forgotten about.

I have a few toons, non Strength based, and halflings, meaning I have had to deal and adapt to knockdowns and slowdowns my entire time in game (and so have others). In short, I've grown used to it. And instead of finding it a nuisance, I find I'm asking myself "Am I keeping myself safe whilst being this close to the dragon?" and "I wonder how much dps I'm doing whilst slowed a bit"? and other questions not related to how unhappy I am at being slow.

I and others like me had the choice to build high strength toons to avoid issues like this. We didn't as we made a choice to go otherwise.

Players now have a choice. Grandmaster of Flowers. Or not. The choice is there. No complaints if you don't take it.

Now, as for the slow effect, you've not done Reaver enough or been the unfortunate target of casters or elementals using Gust of Wind on you elsewhere in the game (which incidentally, is also a knockdown for my poor Halflings). This slow effect has been in the game for a LONG while now. I haven't heard a big complaint about that. Many players have just accepted it.

Hence, I wonder why there needs to be a complaint about this. It IS an Epic Dragon after all.

For Casual and Normal, I can easily accept to make it savable.

J1NG

[danotmano1998]

How about a no save breath taht hits the whole room, deals no damage but disables spell casting for 10 minutes. Could have a 30 minute cooldown.

Youd have "no problem" with that and all since it isn't spammable.

If this were the case I would play other than casters for those encounters, or wait outside the room until the dragon has done it's thing, THEN run in and cast.

Not every class is meant to be optimal for every challenge. This promotes diversity and teamwork.

A knockdown/back (slow from wings) every now and then is what I would expect from a dragon. So long as you're able to just run right back in and keep on swinging, what's the harm? So long as it isn't spammable every 30 seconds, I don't see a huge problem with THIS particular implementation of the dragon abilities.

The devs COULD have made them fly around and breathe deadly strafing runs every now and then, completely removing them from combat range until they land again. (Which, IMO, would be awesome. Thinking some of the combat scenes from Reign of Fire! )

EDIT: I'd agree that on the lower difficulties a save would be nice. Your posts are starting to sound a bit emotional on this issue, so I won't argue further on it, I don't think it would do much good. I've stated my opinion on the topic, which is every bit as valid as yours. Keep on keepin on!

[Vengeance777]

The devs COULD have made them fly around and breathe deadly strafing runs every now and then, completely removing them from combat range until they land again. (Which, IMO, would be awesome. Thinking some of the combat scenes from Reign of Fire! )

That would be awesome. Mechanic might already exist too Harry does similar strafing runs in Shroud Part 4 between rounds.

[Eladiun]

I think they should throw a few air eley's into each of these fights just to make it more exciting.

[Eladiun]

That would be awesome. Mechanic might already exist too Harry does similar strafing runs in Shroud Part 4 between rounds.

Except those comet falls Harry throws do 0 damage. Try it stand in the middle of one.

However, the idea is sound it would add some value to ranged combat.

[J1NG]

I think they should throw a few air eley's into each of these fights just to make it more exciting.

You mean, make them constantly spawn 6 of them and let them constantly spam Gust of Wind on everyone instead of the Dragon spamming the same enlarged effect?

I can live with that.

I'm used to it after all.

Now we can complain about the Level 2 spell instead of the Epic Dragon.

J1NG

[Eladiun]

You mean, make them constantly spawn 6 of them and let them constantly spam Gust of Wind on everyone instead of the Dragon spamming the same enlarged effect?

I can live with that.

I'm used to it after all.

Now we can complain about the Level 2 spell instead of the Epic Dragon.

J1NG

Also, they need to toss us around a bit with zero chance of saving rendering all melees impotent. Just for kicks...

[Vengeance777]

Except those comet falls Harry throws do 0 damage. Try it stand in the middle of one.

OMG I've been moving out of the way for nothing. Thats hilarious. Never bothered to test them, been ingrained in me to dodge the burning rocks mobs toss. LOL.