All the "New" Dragons. They need fixed.

[Shade]

Who loves no-save abilities? I meant tahts what we all beeen asking for when we think "awesome new dragon tech" we saw fernando talkin bout in those exciting motu previs videos ya?

Every "new" style dragon has very unfair annoying no save abilities:
"SHOCK AND AWE" (yes its written in all caps like that in the game too) - No save knockback+ Snare. (Also knocks you down as if that wasnt enough, tho KD portion allows a balance check to negate).
Noticed it did one more thing, -25% fortification. Again - no save. ~15 second duration and it's spammed often enough that you can expect to have that debuff on your melee 100% of the fight. (or 0% of you use ranged/spellcasting , as the dragons AI isn't good enough to reach you)
Wing Buffet - No save knockback.

Please no. Add saves. Thankyous. I'm not asking for this because I want an easy fight, I'm asking because they are annoying mechanics that unfairly penalize melee and not ranged at all. The Dragons ranged abilities are all very weak, all have saves, and none slow you or do anything else to help the dragon close to gap on you while you kite him.

/Sign unless you love no save abilities that unfairly punish the least powerful classes, and you dont like puppies.

Update from final patch before live:
-A save was added the wing buffet knockback. Thankyou. (Strength or Dex, whatevers higher, DC is VERY high)
-Shock and Awe remains unfairly punitive against melee, and the dragons remain trivial to fight on ranged characters.

[Tid12]

/signed

[redspecter23]

Hard to argue here. No save abilities are not fun. Having not yet played the encounter I don't want to judge. Is it one initial surprise attack? Or is it like an air elemental with wings?

[aerendhil]

Is it :
1) once per encounter ?
2) constant spamming of said ability like an air elem ?

If (1), I can deal with it
Otherwise, totally /signed

[Shade]

Is it :
1) once per encounter ?
2) constant spamming of said ability like an air elem ?

If (1), I can deal with it
Otherwise, totally /signed

Why don't you like puppies.

It's about a million times a second. Think air elementals infused with plutonium, with super speed buff, only worse. You also get auto-pushed away if you even get near a dragon.

once per encoutner lol. When has that every happened int he history of ddo. All monsters have unlimited use of all there abilities, period. It is the way of the ddo.

also sometimes the dragons glitch are 100% unmelee-able. Spellcasters only yay!

[donblas]

Think air elementals infused with plutonium, !

OK I did. Now I want one!

[Tholar]

Think air elementals infused with plutonium

If an elemental infused with plutonium were to launch me at 88 miles an hour would I travel through time?

Just asking.

[Keybreaker]

The dragons are jokes on epic elite. Difficulty has nothing to do with it. It's simply not fun to get screwed over in an unfair way simply because of the class I play doesn't fight at ranged. Melee aren't meant to suck versus dragons, they dont in pnp, they shouldnt here.

I've only been hit with Shock and Awe once per battle with the new dragons at the start of the battles.

Um no, you got hit a million times with it.

Still Sounds too easy for Shade.... therefore, the whole game must change....

We should probably buff all dragons.

If you were able to solo them, totally sounds like they need a buff.

a MILLION times! a MILLION!!!

I agree with Shade. Obviously new epic dragons should be buffed in a way that makes them MELEE only! 10,000DR vs all elements + light (pesky DOTs) and immunity to negative energy and disintegrate. 10,000DR vs piercing and bludgeoning (no arrows! no silver bows/slingers! what part of MUST be MELEE'd don't you get?).

The only way to have fun is for my class, and my class only, to be the most powerful class - the most necessary class. No tactics. No other class or epic destiny abilities should matter. I should be able to charge in and spam Supreme Cleave whilst the arcanes buff me (remember EXTEND, y'all have extend right?) and hjealers spam hjeal me! If this "tactic" doesn't work then something is CRITICALLY BROKEN and must be fixed immediately. Dragons should only be an epic challenge for other classes, not for EPIC barbarians.

/sarcasm off (... I almost forgot I had another mode...)



There are a lot of great suggestions in this thread. The answer to all bosses shouldn't be a head-on melee beatdown (DPS, DPS, DPS!!!)... Tactics, teamwork, and special abilities from existing pres (acrobat? air savant?) as well as new epic destinies (monk?) may become more important.

Also, I believe Vengeance777 ("Shock and Awe once per battle") over a tired hyperbolist, "Um no, you got hit a million times with it."

Balance may be a more important skill. As described it only lets you get up faster from a knockdown, which itself is helpful. But starting with the MA raid, the Green Titan's knockdown is a Balance check. AFAIK, prior to MA, all knockdown resists were a STR/DEX check only. In the past a strong enough raging Barbarian could resist Epic Lailat's knockdown (and the rest of the melees would be safe if "meatball'd" together). Personally, I've decided to max Balance on my SD3 18ftr/2mnk tank.

[Synthetic]

Is it :
1) once per encounter ?
2) constant spamming of said ability like an air elem ?

If (1), I can deal with it
Otherwise, totally /signed

It's not once per encounter or spammed. It didn't seem like an issue to me, but I only fought one dragon on beta.

[psteen1]

Maybe this is by design to make archers feel important.

In any case /signed.

[redspecter23]

Maybe this is by design to make *casters* feel *special while everyone else feels like a rock*.

In any case /signed.

Fixed that the best I could manage

[Scraap]

Not really opposed to knockback within reason, and I do so hate puppies with those eyes of theirs, but perhaps the frequency could get a look-over when they review the cats (they did say they'd be making them less trip-spammy). Say, once every 5-10 seconds as a low end recommendation?

[Zerkul]

I love no saves abilities, if i have them of course.
/signed

[rakhtal]

/mostly signed

I agree that no save abilities are very annoying (looking at you air elementals).

On the other hand it's not easy to set dc at a point where it is not almost autofail for some builds or autosuccess for others, especially with trip like effects where it's str/dex check.

[Shade]

/mostly signed

I agree that no save abilities are very annoying (looking at you air elementals).

On the other hand it's not easy to set dc at a point where it is not almost autofail for some builds or autosuccess for others, especially with trip like effects where it's str/dex check.

yes it is. There are 4 difficulty settings. Stats do not vary that much between classes. If you autofail elite, run something lower or go gear up.

Cas:
DC15
N:
DC20
H:
DC25
E:
DC40 (or 100, I don't care, just give us a chance to roll a 20)

done.

[Cadveen]

/mostly signed

On the other hand it's not easy to set dc at a point where it is not almost autofail for some builds or autosuccess for others, especially with trip like effects where it's str/dex check.

Wait a minute! Aren't you (Shade) one of the people who constantly spams cries of "make all classes exactly the same." Well in this case you got it. Some caster types most likely won't have the same balance as some of the melees. Now they made it so it is autofail for everyone.

[J1NG]

Or just build a toon that's immune to Knockdown.

I get the frustration though, prior to becoming immune, it was an absolute pain. After become immune, it was just business as usual.

Another reason why I said players will want immunity and resistances (and why immunity trumps resistance) over mere dps increases previously.

Still signed though, but Turbine have already given workarounds for some of the no saves.

J1NG

[Postumus]

Who loves no-save abilities? I meant tahts what we all beeen asking for when we think "awesome new dragon tech" we saw fernando talkin bout in those exciting motu previs videos ya?

Every "new" style dragon has very unfair annoying no save abilities:
"SHOCK AND AWE" (yes its written in all caps like that in the game too) - No save knockback+ Snare. (Also knocks you down as if that wasnt enough, tho KD portion allows a balance check to negate).
Wing Buffet - No save knockback.

Please no. Add saves. Thankyous.

/Sign unless you love no save abilities that unfairly punish the least powerful classes, and you dont like puppies.

Aren't you the one who said elite epic was too easy? Now that you've found something hard to deal with you want it nerfed?

I guess you could follow the same advice you gave casters in the Hard to Kill thread: "there is always casual and normal..."

[nivarch]

Aren't you the one who said elite epic was too easy? Now that you've found something hard to deal with you want it nerfed?

I guess you could follow the same advice you gave casters in the Hard to Kill thread: "there is always casual and normal..."

I don't often agree with Shade, but I completly agree that no save mechanism are broken.
It doesn't need to be an easy to reach DC, but all monster abilities should give a save no matter what ; especially CC which can really kill the fun.

People that invest in saves should be rewarded. It a good way to punish max DPS retards build, and to develop build with a good mix of survivability and DPS.

Edit: Why is this in the epic level subforum?

[rakhtal]

Aren't you the one who said elite epic was too easy? Now that you've found something hard to deal with you want it nerfed?

I guess you could follow the same advice you gave casters in the Hard to Kill thread: "there is always casual and normal..."

And it wouldn't matter because casual and normal don't have save either.