"Let them...die"

[Mubjon]

Oh I see, In that case you haven't understood me correctly.

I'm not for 1 second saying they SHOULD nerf blade barrier.

Im saying that this isn't a "caster nerf" this is a "necro spell nerf"

Just talking semantics really.

Oh ok, cool because all the talk of nerfing seems to lead to something being nerf'd

And yes I agree it is a necro spell nerf and from what I have read a small one at that.

[Nyxianne]

Hopefully the players who don't have their heads stuck in the wrong place and even the ones who do will realize a well balanced party is more equal to the skill and courtesy of the player at the keyboard and not the class......this includes some of us casters.

If I am ever leading in the kill count on my PM it was out of necessity not because I was trying to showoff.

I certainly hope I don't start getting 'tudes from non casters after the update because I will happily solo and then the community of melees will have lost a caster that was actually aiding them and not trying to diminish them.

I certainly won't deal well with a bunch of melees trying to bark orders at me because some of my casting skills have been toned down some.

If I am ever leading in the kill count on my PM it was out of necessity not because I was trying to showoff. - This and the fact that in order to keep from overpowering a party a caster has to hold back a little bit is why the game feels so unbalanced to me. Because a lot of casters don't come to quests intending to "Save the day" it's just that the very nature of that class makes it so that if they don't want to play gimp -or be incredibly bored- they overpower a good portion of what the other party members can do. You don't have to be a showoff to come out on top in quests, in fact some of the best casters I know and the ones most guilty of making questing boring, aren't showoffs! They don't even realize that by just doing what they do, they've wiped everything out so that now questing on a melee is like going outside to watch the grass grow.

[Drekisen]

If I am ever leading in the kill count on my PM it was out of necessity not because I was trying to showoff. - This and the fact that in order to keep from overpowering a party a caster has to hold back a little bit is why the game feels so unbalanced to me. Because a lot of casters don't come to quests intending to "Save the day" it's just that the very nature of that class makes it so that if they don't want to play gimp -or be incredibly bored- they overpower a good portion of what the other party members can do. You don't have to be a showoff to come out on top in quests, in fact some of the best casters I know and the ones most guilty of making questing boring, aren't showoffs! They don't even realize that by just doing what they do, they've wiped everything out so that now questing on a melee is like going outside to watch the grass grow.

Honestly I do all kinds of stuff on my PM that does not require me to kill anything and I am never bored. FtS....Otto's....Cloudkill....Mass Hold...etc.....all of these things enable the melees to have plenty to beat on and I just pick up a staff or spam my Necrotic SLA's and help out.

In fact I usually save the insta'kill stuff for oh **** moments only.


Tell you the truth...the people who mostly use their insta kill spells all the time I don't think are even very good casters....talk about boring....and a lot of times lacking skill and ability to use other schools of spell.

[Chai]

Didn't read any of my other posts did you ?

I suggest you read them before commenting: as it's clear you have missed what I was saying completely. Feel free though : perhaps even contact my guild "leader" so they can laugh too :P

What other posts? The ones when you attempted to backpedal? Yeah I read those.

Accusations of missing the point and lack of reading are common knee jerk reactions of someone who realizes their stance on the issue just got numerous holes poked in it and it now leaks like a siv. They do not serve to reinforce anything other than trying to detract from the credibility of statements made by those who disagree, which is all the poster has left as a tactic after realising they are incorrect on the issue.

Guild leader? Try private server channels. Most of the time when people are tarnishing their in game rep, they dont even realize they are doing it, because they dont get to see where their on purpose underperformance is being talked about. Who will take the most damage from piking and self enforced underperformance? You. Not casters, not melee, you. Its easy to get another caster, they are a dime a dozen. After pulling this kinda stuff you posted, it will be much harder to get into the good groups on your server. As ive stated, I know who the repeat offenders are from the first time casters were OP, and they still have a tough time getting into good groups. They arent hard to spot. Many of them were harping up a storm on these forums when crit fishing firewalls was nerfed. It was their only option, other than actually playing as a team, of course.

[Drekisen]

What other posts? The ones when you attempted to backpedal? Yeah I read those.

Accusations of missing the point and lack of reading are common knee jerk reactions of someone who realizes their stance on the issue just got numerous holes poked in it and it now leaks like a siv. They do not serve to reinforce anything other than trying to detract from the credibility of statements made by those who disagree, which is all the poster has left as a tactic after realising they are incorrect on the issue.

Guild leader? Try private server channels. Most of the time when people are tarnishing their in game rep, they dont even realize they are doing it, because they dont get to see where their on purpose underperformance is being talked about. Who will take the most damage from piking and self enforced underperformance? You. Not casters, not melee, you. Its easy to get another caster, they are a dime a dozen. After pulling this kinda stuff you posted, it will be much harder to get into the good groups on your server. As ive stated, I know who the repeat offenders are from the first time casters were OP, and they still have a tough time getting into good groups. They arent hard to spot. Many of them were harping up a storm on these forums when crit fishing firewalls was nerfed. It was their only option, other than actually playing as a team, of course.

I'm in total agreement with this and I only play a PM.......every quest in the game being easily solo'able by casters was just insane...you know I can go along with a lot of it being solo'able...but IMO stuff like high end ELITE quests and EPICS should be very very very hard to solo at all times.

[Viciouspika]

but mostlikely not.

The reason many melees complain about casters being over powered is because they are overpowered.

A caster can cast multiple lvl 9 spells until their sp runs out. Caster's usually only had a couple of lvl 9 spells in pnp then were done(balanced but impractical for an MMO). With special equipment, a caster as basicly nearly limitless sp. Melee's do not have a way to get limitless hit points except silver flame pots which come with a debuff.

Logicly, a lvl 20 caster should be able to insta-kill a mob or several. Logicly a lvl 20 barbarian should be able to cleave a mob in half(ie. insta-kill). ALso, a lvl rogue should be able to slit a mobs throat(ie insta-kills) etc, etc,...
The only weapon that provides an insta-kill for melees is terror(not logical).

But, But vicious I had to farm all this stuff to bypass the mobs saving throws to get my insta-kills.

Vicious replies, " I farmed all these weapons and bypassed the mobs AC and still no insta-kill."

The Dev's seem to nerf anything that is to overpowered(ie. pally's DM, divine favor, and rogues SA, and vorpals). Thus the coming debuff for casters. I would prefer a buff for melees and keep the casters as is, but the only hand held weapon the Dev's seem to have is a nerf bat.

As for your attitude, meh. Have fun playing with yourself and the select few you choose.

[keveniaftw]

but mostlikely not.

The reason many melees complain about casters being over powered is because they are overpowered.

A caster can cast multiple lvl 9 spells until their sp runs out. Caster's usually only had a couple of lvl 9 spells in pnp then were done(balanced but impractical for an MMO). With special equipment, a caster as basicly nearly limitless sp. Melee's do not have a way to get limitless hit points except silver flame pots which come with a debuff.

Logicly, a lvl 20 caster should be able to insta-kill a mob or several. Logicly a lvl 20 barbarian should be able to cleave a mob in half(ie. insta-kill). ALso, a lvl rogue should be able to slit a mobs throat(ie insta-kills) etc, etc,...
The only weapon that provides an insta-kill for melees is terror(not logical).

But, But vicious I had to farm all this stuff to bypass the mobs saving throws to get my insta-kills.

Vicious replies, " I farmed all these weapons and bypassed the mobs AC and still no insta-kill."

The Dev's seem to nerf anything that is to overpowered(ie. pally's DM, divine favor, and rogues SA, and vorpals). Thus the coming debuff for casters. I would prefer a buff for melees and keep the casters as is, but the only hand held weapon the Dev's seem to have is a nerf bat.

As for your attitude, meh. Have fun playing with yourself and the select few you choose.

You are only partially right, melee's DID get instakills, but with restrictions

Rogue:
Assassinate: Need to invest in int, which does not rlly give anyhing else that matters

Monk:
Quivering palm: You can't get the DC very high
Banishing fists: Only works on outsiders, good for the rest tho

Equipment:
Terror-Thaarak wraps: Low DC on the instakills, tho it works well on several trash mobs
Vorpal-Banish-Smiting-Equivalents: Only works under 1k HP, but has nice 4d6 damage boost
Epic souleater: Low proc rates, but works great as far as I heard (lack shard or seal to make, unsure)
Manslayer: HP restriction (unsure on these, don't rage me if I'm wrong. Friendly correct is good enough. Too lazy to look it up)
Vacuum II green steel: Low proc rates
And proly more, feel free to add

[GermanicusMaximus]

I certainly hope I don't start getting 'tudes from non casters after the update because I will happily solo and then the community of melees will have lost a caster that was actually aiding them and not trying to diminish them.

Well, they have already lost one caster who made a habit of aiding them. I PUGed 99% of my group runs, by choice, and with the exception of a couple of raids where I ran in all caster groups for a more diverse play experience, I ran in balanced parties and healed melee. No one plays a cleric, like I do, as their main toon unless they are interested in team play. If I just wanted to nuke stuff, I would have played a FvS, or a Sorc, or a Wizzie.

Those days are over, at least for the time being.

As a well known PUG divine caster on Cannith, I get a steady stream of tells asking me to join groups. Those tells are now getting a standard reply: "Sorry, due to pending caster nerfs in the upcoming update, I no longer heal melee."

I am creative enough to find any number of things to amuse myself, both in and out of the game. I can respect each caster for making his/her own choice, but anyone who believes they can just scream "Nerf casters!!!" and still feel entitled to having those casters run with them really needs to obtain a basic understanding of human psychology.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Its easy to get another caster, they are a dime a dozen.

Really, if casters are a dime a dozen, what are melee? A 100 for a penny?

After pulling this kinda stuff you posted, it will be much harder to get into the good groups on your server. As ive stated, I know who the repeat offenders are from the first time casters were OP, and they still have a tough time getting into good groups.

Yeah, I have been "perma-banned" by some backwater, "melee are uber types" who still believe the Good Olde Days were when you had one divine to healbot, one arcane to buffbot, and 10 melee toons. I got my next run in 10 minutes (needed time for sell/repair), netted a completion without the egomaniac who thought he controlled the entire server, and have at least a couple thousand completions since then. Every time I think of one of those people who misunderstood who they really were, I simply smile.

It was their only option, other than actually playing as a team, of course.

I hope you aren't trying to imply that people who play melee are, on average, good team players. This is a fantasy game, but there is no need to get carried away

[GermanicusMaximus]

Yawn. Been through this already, check the end of the last page.

I have no agenda, I have not said blade barrier SHOULD be nerfed etcetc.

/rantfail

[shrug] Yes, I read your posts, and I provided information on the realities on the changes to casters in the upcoming update. Providing useful information enhances the quality of forums.

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Your rant was uninspired, but I would not call it a total failure.

[GermanicusMaximus]

True, but I am pretty sure though that even after these nerfs casters will be more powerful and find it easier to solo epics than the melee classes....

Of course. Casters are high skill, high powered classes. Melee are not.

If Turbine wishes to remove the link between player skill and power in this game, that is their call. I, and more than a few other players, will simply move on to some other game. In the end, its not a big deal.

[Qaliya]

Casters are high skill, high powered classes. Melee are not.

Eh. Having played both, I think this is one of the biggest myths of the game.

What exactly is so "high skill" about mashing spell-casting buttons and watching all the mobs die?

Skill is a barbarian staying alive as the last man standing against a difficult boss.

And don't even get me started on SP pots. Last week I was in a quest with a wizard who was chugging them like cheap soda and fingering every single mob. The rest of the party could have just done a /sleep until the quest was over. Doesn't seem very "high skill" to me... and it was not very much fun to be in a party with the guy, either.

[RabidKoala]

So let me get this straight, because a few melees are saying to nerf casters, you're going to respond by being a jerk to every melee you play with. what if some of those melees we're being vocal about NOT nerfing casters, than what? If anything it will tell people that casters only care about themselves and aren't good to group with. I'm just saying this sounds like an awful bad idea.

[Drekisen]

And don't even get me started on SP pots. Last week I was in a quest with a wizard who was chugging them like cheap soda and fingering every single mob. The rest of the party could have just done a /sleep until the quest was over. Doesn't seem very "high skill" to me... and it was not very much fun to be in a party with the guy, either.

This is what I am screaming...and I am a PM....I absolutely hate casters like this.

Let other people play.....FtS stuff...Otto stuff, Mass Hold stuff and let everyone have some fun.

If all the necro casters wanna claim well it's our spell(s) we have the right to use it liberally and exclude everyone else in the party from the quest....then expect a lot more nerfs to necro insta-death spells.

[Chai]

Really, if casters are a dime a dozen, what are melee? A 100 for a penny?

People play what they like in this game, not what they are forced to play. Thank god for that, because if DDO was balanced on needing to play the best classes/builds, none of us would play melee right now.

Yeah, I have been "perma-banned" by some backwater, "melee are uber types" who still believe the Good Olde Days were when you had one divine to healbot, one arcane to buffbot, and 10 melee toons. I got my next run in 10 minutes (needed time for sell/repair), netted a completion without the egomaniac who thought he controlled the entire server, and have at least a couple thousand completions since then. Every time I think of one of those people who misunderstood who they really were, I simply smile.

The entire "you need me but I dont need you" caster attitude is about to be invalid, and this will happen when casters find out they cant complete everything simply using a 43 necro DC and self healing. This already happened once in this game and we are now in the second cycle of overpowering then overnerfing casters. Yeah, Im sure it is super easy right now to get a group on a caster, but people wont be able to rely on that forever.

I hope you aren't trying to imply that people who play melee are, on average, good team players. This is a fantasy game, but there is no need to get carried away

They are the ones who have_to_be good team players right now, because they arent currently on top of the power ladder. I remember when they were, and while the egos werent much different then than they are now, melee certainly werent able to roll through epics solo, regardless of level of gear, builds, or TR life combos. Thats why people who played melee mains cant have this "you need me but I dont need you" attitude. People with 47 necro and 45 enchant DC pale masters can have that attitude currently, and it has festered to a point where people are being told to get their own buffs because casters cant be bothered. Thats all going belly up, and its going to be hilarious when people will not drop their attitude problem as fast as the game changes. Youll know who they are, they will be the ones moaning about caster nerfs in the most overexagerated fashion possible. English to English translation: "you mean I HAVE TO play with other people - the same people Ive been a dbag to for the last 12 months?" Why yes, yes you do. D&D is a forced cooperation game after all.

[Quarterling]

Of course. Casters are high skill, high powered classes. Melee are not.

Heh, play a rogue and then try saying that again.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Eh. Having played both, I think this is one of the biggest myths of the game.

What exactly is so "high skill" about mashing spell-casting buttons and watching all the mobs die?

Skill is a barbarian staying alive as the last man standing against a difficult boss.

And don't even get me started on SP pots. Last week I was in a quest with a wizard who was chugging them like cheap soda and fingering every single mob. The rest of the party could have just done a /sleep until the quest was over. Doesn't seem very "high skill" to me... and it was not very much fun to be in a party with the guy, either.

Click/hold mouse button. Auto-attack, which even Shade admits he uses in quest. I have seen a 10 year old competently play a melee toon. Really, not much more needs to be said.

[GermanicusMaximus]

you're going to respond by being a jerk to every melee you play with. .

My blue bar is my blue bar. Melee take heals and buffs for granted, but no one has an obligation to cast them. That's simply the reality of the game mechanics. Telling me how I am obligated to play? That kind of sounds like what you are accusing me of.

[SardaofChaos]

Click/hold mouse button. Auto-attack, which even Shade admits he uses in quest. I have seen a 10 year old competently play a melee toon. Really, not much more needs to be said.

Equip eternal wand of choice. Press random number key every few seconds. Switch bars because you needed to do something with that seventeenth button on your mouse. I'm the president of the united states. Really, not much more needs to be said.

[GermanicusMaximus]

I'm the president of the united states.

I think you may be misinformed