"Let them...die"

[grayham]

I don't agree with this idea. I think it will be bad news.

So there.

[Jsbeer]

I don't agree with this idea. I think it will be bad news.

So there.

Dunno - actually the more I think about it the better this idea sounds. No I am not being sarcastic or trolling - bear with me now. Lets assume it works the way the original poster imagines.

Then we have all the spell-casters (whom the original poster claims are not OP, while simultaneously claiming that casters do not need melees although not vice-versa!) doing practically every single quest/raid without any melees. You will also have melees struggling to play above mid-level or so.....

I think the point that the original poster doesn't realise is that in this situation, Turbine will not go go 'This proves spell-casters are not OP' since they can do the entire game without the melees who can't, and so buff spell-casters, they will simply have (even more than they do now) overwhelming proof that casters are OP and nerf them into the ground....

[taurean430]

/incoming rant

Before Update 9, when I played my wizard I would buff and sometimes overbuff my parties and make due with whatever I had left for sp. Rude players, egocentric players of other classes, obnoxious players were ignored. I competed with the 'uber' in kill counts. I used mana pots more than I wanted to...

After Update 9, when I played my wizard I would buff and sometimes overbuff my parties and make due with whatever I had left for sp. Rude players, egocentric players of other classes, obnoxious players were ignored. I competed with the 'uber' in kill counts. I rarely if ever have to use mana pots...

Epic Questing was a particular annoyance pre Update 9 because it required a stupid amount of sp enhancement to function in. Epic Questing after Update 9 became much more interesting to quest in.

There will always be players who feel your function in a group is best suited by acting as their servant. No amount of game changes will make that go away. It's a player attitude problem. My preferred way to deal with this over my time here has been to do my best to provide what is needed to get the quest/raid done. Players who act like a horse's patooty get ignored or dispelled. I'm mean like that when provoked. I also fluctuate between generous and overly generous when playing. If you are decent to me, you get what you asked for and more. It's also how I choose to live in rl.

I don't see anything that has been done in the time since Update 9 that has been disrespectful enough, horrible enough, or bad enough to warrant a boycott of any kind. What I see are a number of players who are used to being top dog in all categories throwing an extended primadonna hissy fit. That's different...

I agree that casters in general approached the problem in a much better way than melee players have generally speaking. This is not deserved of some kind of gamewide boycott however imo. Being able to say that one did their best in helping the group to succeed despite the shortcomings of some of the group is good. Putting oneself in a position to declare arbitrary rules and enforce them by 'letting them die' is bad practice. Maintain the highground until the flood of complainers drowns themselves.

/end rant

TL/DR: Choosing to withhold assistance is better done on a case by case basis. Treating an entire class/set of classes horribly due to the actions of some is no better than what the OP claims as injury.

[Loromir]

Over the past few months there has been a constant whinge going on these forums as to the nature of casters, and that they are OP, to the point where turbine is starting to listen and is looking at nerfing casters.

So the overly loud voices of a few will cause the masses to have their toons nerfed, ok, fine.

But, I would say to ALL casters, do NOT heal them, do NOT res them, do NOT DoT up the end boss, do not Buff them, cast no CC unless YOUR life is in danger,

"Let them die".

Maybe after a while of this perhaps the vocal few melee will realise that we have these abilities for a reason and alot of it supports them.

Think of it as a "casters on strike" type deal.

I will not be "helping" any melee toon other than guildies, and I will gladly tell them why.

Perhaps this would give the silent masses a reason to come on the forums and post so that everyones voice is heard not just a small few who for whatever reason seem to be so jealous of the "blue bar"....

LET THEM DIE.

So...you want to join a group...do nothing....get xp...loot the chest...rinse....repeat. Sounds like piking to me.

[Nyxianne]

It's not the expansion that seems to be the problem, it's the updates to the game mechanics, which at this point in time, I wouldn't pass too much judgement on till I play.

My main issue is the people constantly calling for nerfs.

I look forward to new content, but I don't look forward to a future of knee-jerk reactions and changes to classes.

Hold. The. Phone.
You can't do a doom and bellyache thread and have people get behind you if you haven't even played the new content yet. Where's the credibility?

Edit: Kinggartk - my bard sees no problem with this plan.....

[toun]

Guessing OP is palemaster? If wail is being nerfed, same character is now unable to do anything because he has not learned to use any other spells (why bother, none of them are as powerful as wail to clear trash quickly.)

[Anomara]

1st NO

2nd I play any character to help my group, the nerf bat hits us all at some point it seems. I enjoy my casters for how they are an asset to the group, I enjoy my melees for the assistance they provide a group. Never asked for the nerf bat but I'm not going to cry about it either.

[Chai]

Over the past few months there has been a constant whinge going on these forums as to the nature of casters, and that they are OP, to the point where turbine is starting to listen and is looking at nerfing casters.

So the overly loud voices of a few will cause the masses to have their toons nerfed, ok, fine.

But, I would say to ALL casters, do NOT heal them, do NOT res them, do NOT DoT up the end boss, do not Buff them, cast no CC unless YOUR life is in danger,

"Let them die".

Maybe after a while of this perhaps the vocal few melee will realise that we have these abilities for a reason and alot of it supports them.

Think of it as a "casters on strike" type deal.

I will not be "helping" any melee toon other than guildies, and I will gladly tell them why.

Perhaps this would give the silent masses a reason to come on the forums and post so that everyones voice is heard not just a small few who for whatever reason seem to be so jealous of the "blue bar"....

LET THEM DIE.

So what youre saying is you will take a group slot because people will jump to invite you because youre playing a caster, then pike and watch people struggle knowing you could help but you wont? Got it.

I was in full support of casters having their power increased by removing the epic wards and such. What this did for some was to create a "you need me but I dont need you" attitude when they play their casters. Its fine if Im the group leader and you dont do what I ask, because it will only happen once. After that I will be running those raids I lead without you and any other casters who pike. Hope you like leading your own groups, and having them take a long time to fill, because eventually no one will group with you due to intentional underperformance.

Its going to be hilarious when all the caster players who put the 'you need me but I dont need you" attitude into practice all of a sudden realize that this is no longer the case, and they actually DO need to function as a team. They will have ruined their own rep back when they were OP, and when the nerf bat hits them hard enough to the point where they are not OP, they cant find groups.

I know who the repeat offenders are from when the first time the caster OP pendilum swung (the FOD = OP era), and when it swung back the other way (when we got epic ward) alot of those people were alone in epics crit fishing firewalls because groups didnt want them due to that very attitude. We have already gone a full cycle on this and are now completing the second cycle of overpowering, then overnerfing, casters. We know how this one ends. And its not with casters being OP. You will not "no longer not need melee while they need you." Will people want you in their groups when this all goes down?

[psi0nix]

So what youre saying is you will take a group slot because people will jump to invite you because youre playing a caster, then pike and watch people struggle knowing you could help but you wont? Got it.

I was in full support of casters having their power increased by removing the epic wards and such. What this did for some was to create a "you need me but I dont need you" attitude when they play their casters. Its fine if Im the group leader and you dont do what I ask, because it will only happen once. After that I will be running those raids I lead without you and any other casters who pike. Hope you like leading your own groups, and having them take a long time to fill, because eventually no one will group with you due to intentional underperformance.

Its going to be hilarious when all the caster players who put the 'you need me but I dont need you" attitude into practice all of a sudden realize that this is no longer the case, and they actually DO need to function as a team. They will have ruined their own rep back when they were OP, and when the nerf bat hits them hard enough to the point where they are not OP, they cant find groups.

I know who the repeat offenders are from when the first time the caster OP pendilum swung (the FOD = OP era), and when it swung back the other way (when we got epic ward) alot of those people were alone in epics crit fishing firewalls because groups didnt want them due to that very attitude. We have already gone a full cycle on this and are now completing the second cycle of overpowering, then overnerfing, casters. We know how this one ends. And its not with casters being OP. You will not "no longer not need melee while they need you." Will people want you in their groups when this all goes down?

Didn't read any of my other posts did you ?

I suggest you read them before commenting: as it's clear you have missed what I was saying completely. Feel free though : perhaps even contact my guild "leader" so they can laugh too :P

[Aurora1979]

Its going to be hilarious when all the caster players who put the 'you need me but I dont need you" attitude into practice all of a sudden realize that this is no longer the case, and they actually DO need to function as a team.

To be fair this isn't a caster nerf, this is a necro arcane nerf.

If they were hitting all casters equally they would nerf blade barrier too.

Arcane runs into group of mobs, Circle of death to neg level them then wail to kill them.

This results in arcanes not needing melees and also easy kills in epic level content which the devs don't want.

Fair enough.


But,

Cleric/ Fvs runs into pack of mobs, drops blade barrier, kites mobs and kills them.

Sure it takes longer but the end effect is the same. Easy death to epic mobs and no need for melees.

For some reason the devs have only identified necro spells, particularly wail, as the problem spell.

We see what the uproar is like when they nerf blade barrier.

[Delssar]

Not sure if anyone else has sead it but i'll run my melee's with you!

Zerg ahead, pull all the agro back to you then diplo them lol

[Drekisen]

So what youre saying is you will take a group slot because people will jump to invite you because youre playing a caster, then pike and watch people struggle knowing you could help but you wont? Got it.

I was in full support of casters having their power increased by removing the epic wards and such. What this did for some was to create a "you need me but I dont need you" attitude when they play their casters. Its fine if Im the group leader and you dont do what I ask, because it will only happen once. After that I will be running those raids I lead without you and any other casters who pike. Hope you like leading your own groups, and having them take a long time to fill, because eventually no one will group with you due to intentional underperformance.

Its going to be hilarious when all the caster players who put the 'you need me but I dont need you" attitude into practice all of a sudden realize that this is no longer the case, and they actually DO need to function as a team. They will have ruined their own rep back when they were OP, and when the nerf bat hits them hard enough to the point where they are not OP, they cant find groups.

I know who the repeat offenders are from when the first time the caster OP pendilum swung (the FOD = OP era), and when it swung back the other way (when we got epic ward) alot of those people were alone in epics crit fishing firewalls because groups didnt want them due to that very attitude. We have already gone a full cycle on this and are now completing the second cycle of overpowering, then overnerfing, casters. We know how this one ends. And its not with casters being OP. You will not "no longer not need melee while they need you." Will people want you in their groups when this all goes down?

Hopefully the players who don't have their heads stuck in the wrong place and even the ones who do will realize a well balanced party is more equal to the skill and courtesy of the player at the keyboard and not the class......this includes some of us casters.

If I am ever leading in the kill count on my PM it was out of necessity not because I was trying to showoff.

I certainly hope I don't start getting 'tudes from non casters after the update because I will happily solo and then the community of melees will have lost a caster that was actually aiding them and not trying to diminish them.

I certainly won't deal well with a bunch of melees trying to bark orders at me because some of my casting skills have been toned down some.

[Drekisen]

To be fair this isn't a caster nerf, this is a necro arcane nerf.

If they were hitting all casters equally they would nerf blade barrier too.

Arcane runs into group of mobs, Circle of death to neg level them then wail to kill them.

This results in arcanes not needing melees and also easy kills in epic level content which the devs don't want.

Fair enough.


But,

Cleric/ Fvs runs into pack of mobs, drops blade barrier, kites mobs and kills them.

Sure it takes longer but the end effect is the same. Easy death to epic mobs and no need for melees.

For some reason the devs have only identified necro spells, particularly wail, as the problem spell.

We see what the uproar is like when they nerf blade barrier.

I honestly think the reason they didn't touch BB is because Wiz/Sorcs have much more power at their disposal and most are self healing while a large portion of FvS/Clerics are relegated to a lot of healing duties...which diminishes their SP and attention to killing mobs...while a Sorc and Wiz can pretty much full on focus on it.

And Arti's......well most of the ones I have played with certainly aren't OP'ed IMO.

Overall as a class....Wizards have tremendous power......I don't think you can really dispute this...even after the update they will still be incredibly powerful.

[Aurora1979]

I honestly think the reason they didn't touch BB is because Wiz/Sorcs have much more power at their disposal and most are self healing while a large portion of FvS/Clerics are relegated to a lot of healing duties...which diminishes their SP and attention to killing mobs...while a Sorc and Wiz can pretty much full on focus on it.

And Arti's......well most of the ones I have played with certainly aren't OP'ed IMO.

Overall as a class....Wizards have tremendous power......I don't think you can really dispute this...even after the update they will still be incredibly powerful.

Oh I agree. Arcanes are/were/will still be extreamly powerful.

I'm not in the "turbine suxz" camp. The first proposals were a bit strong but they are getting better and, as I have said before, I was well aware that a nerf was coming. I never imagined that the devs wanted to have us killing epic mobs so easy.

If they didn't like the enchant mode pre U9 then the necro mode post 9 was never gonna last long.

I'm not sure I agree on the whole spell points being used for healing though.

If the divine played as I said: Run, BB, kite move on then they wouldn't need to heal others.

I do agree that the traditional role of divines, especially in epics tends to fall back on healing, with other stuff mixed in. I don't think we can deny though, any epic an arcane could necro through a solo or dragging pikers a divine could do exactly the same by zerging ahead and BB trash/ DP bosses.

I'm not being biased here. My 3 main chars are an arcane im tring atm, a Fvs evoker and a bard

[Mubjon]

Blade barrier is already nerf'd on a divine.

1) No extend
2) No enhancements to boost damage without a splash.

[Drekisen]

Oh I agree. Arcanes are/were/will still be extreamly powerful.

I'm not in the "turbine suxz" camp. The first proposals were a bit strong but they are getting better and, as I have said before, I was well aware that a nerf was coming. I never imagined that the devs wanted to have us killing epic mobs so easy.

If they didn't like the enchant mode pre U9 then the necro mode post 9 was never gonna last long.

I'm not sure I agree on the whole spell points being used for healing though.

If the divine played as I said: Run, BB, kite move on then they wouldn't need to heal others.

I do agree that the traditional role of divines, especially in epics tends to fall back on healing, with other stuff mixed in. I don't think we can deny though, any epic an arcane could necro through a solo or dragging pikers a divine could do exactly the same by zerging ahead and BB trash/ DP bosses.

I'm not being biased here. My 3 main chars are an arcane im tring atm, a Fvs evoker and a bard

Well...I was talking about team players here...not showoffs and pileons

[Aurora1979]

Blade barrier is already nerf'd on a divine.

1) No extend
2) No enhancements to boost damage without a splash.

Read my post above. A divine using pretty much just BB and a DOT can still solo epics just was well as an arcane with necro spells. It might be a bit slower but it encompasses the same "issues" being addressed in the current changes.

[Aurora1979]

Well...I was talking about team players here...not showoffs and pileons

yea but thats what I mean. As an arcane, right now, if you want to play as a team you can with holds de buffs and damage etc.

If you want to play as a team player with a divine you can with heals, CC and buffs plus some damage too.

If you want to play as a "non-teamplayer" then you can with either class.

[Mubjon]

Read my post above. A divine using pretty much just BB and a DOT can still solo epics just was well as an arcane with necro spells. It might be a bit slower but it encompasses the same "issues" being addressed in the current changes.

I did read it and I do not agree with the tone that Blade barrier would be nerf'd. They already nerfed it on a divine so no need to nerf it anymore. One more nerf on the blade barrier, it has a reflex save for half or no damage.

Unless of course they wish to ensure no one ever plays a divine again? I play this MMO strictly because my favorite class is not turned into a slave and needs the help of others to progress.

All I saw in your post is a reason they should nerf something that is already nerf'd.

[Aurora1979]

I did read it and I do not agree with the tone that Blade barrier would be nerf'd. They already nerfed it on a divine so no need to nerf it anymore. One more nerf on the blade barrier, it has a reflex save for half or no damage.

Unless of course they wish to ensure no one ever plays a divine again? I play this MMO strictly because my favorite class is not turned into a slave and needs the help of others to progress.

All I saw in your post is a reason they should nerf something that is already nerf'd.

Oh I see, In that case you haven't understood me correctly.

I'm not for 1 second saying they SHOULD nerf blade barrier.

Im saying that this isn't a "caster nerf" this is a "necro spell nerf"

Just talking semantics really.