How awful are thrower builds?

[Luis_Velderve]

I was there at lammania /dragonmakers and Devs said that they were taking actions to allow viable thrower builds and Shiradi was part of that. I have a lvl 7 drow monk with quick draw, rapid shot, precise shot and shuriken expertise (for free).

Things that I can say:

DPS compared to a ranger, mechanic and arty is too low, my critical is 26 top.

Archer Focus can not be used with any thrown weapon, I expected to work with it and was surprised because is a new ability in the same time line of Devs declaration about their intentions with thrown weapons.

Point blank seems to work with thrown weapons.

10k stars is working well.

I have to conclude that Combat Archery is not going to work with thrown weapons because of the name of the feat, a real shame. (can someone confirm this?)
,
Thrown weapons are weak with an exception. Throwing axe because throwing axe damage is 1d6. Throwing hammer dice is a joke.

My question is, Do I need to survive up to lvl 20 to be able to do something decent with a thrower build? I think that you need to have and incredible tolerance to do that.


What can be done IMHO.

Change T. Hammer to 1d6 and decrease dart to 1d3

Archer Focus should be reworked to Missile Focus to cover T. Weapons

Combat Archery should be reworked to Combat Missiles to cover T. Weapons.

Adjustments to Rate of Fire, ROF for characters with improved critical thrown weapons in the order of
+1 to dart, shuriken, dagger

Adjustments to ROF for characters with Weapon Specialization
+1 to dart

Adjustment to ROF for characters with Greater Weapon Specialization
+1 to dart, shuriken and dagger
+1 to T. Axe and T. Hammer

This ideas are inspired in the old AD&D

[NovaNZ]

Hail all.

I have not played a Thrower build - previous posts have covered the -ve's.

However I have used the feat Brutal Throw on some STR based alts.

Brutal Throw
Usage: Passive
Prerequisite: +1 Base Attack Bonus, Strength 13
Description
You can use your Strength bonus instead of Dexterity bonus to determine bonus to attack with Thrown weapons if it is higher.
Note - A fighter may select this feat as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Note - STR modifier applies to the to-hit and to-dammage rolls.

I only play dwarf race characters. With axe enhancements + seeker item - a Min II Throwing axe or crafted throwing axe (or vorpal returning - rare but achievable) it offers a useable contribution for when melee option is limited or when it is safer to stand off and let dedicated melees take the flak

EG - using MinII throwing axe with Str 40 - Average damage with no cits counted ~ 36-40 damage/throw.

Note - Keen property on thrown items is still not WAI.

Ie provides easy ranged option for fighter/barb, bard, rogue, cleric etc etc.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Thrower builds have a great personality. They have to.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

One of the best ways to help thrower builds, i think, would be to allow *ranged* feats to work with them. Theoretically, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to aim my shurikan so that it passes through friend and foe alike. Point blank shot, if the bow deals more damage, why not the thrown weapon? Then all that's left is giving thrown an advantage over ranged to make up for the really poor damage dice. I'd say, increase base thrown speed, and add a dual ranged allacrity feat. Allows you to equip thrown weapons in the off hand, and gives you a % based on your attack bonus to throw the second weapon. <5 = BAB+6%, 5-9 = 2*BAB+5%, 10-14 =3*BAB%, 15-20, 3*BAB +10%



As a side note, I only came across this thread while trying to make my own halfling thrower build. Going to go for a 13/6/1 druid/monk/ (fighter?) Druid allows for ki generation while a throwing weapon is equipped, allowing for interesting effects using a shuriken from evening star challenge vendors. It also lets me use spells to help trigger shiradi double rainbow effects

[Falco_Easts]

One of the best ways to help thrower builds, i think, would be to allow *ranged* feats to work with them. Theoretically, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to aim my shurikan so that it passes through friend and foe alike. Point blank shot, if the bow deals more damage, why not the thrown weapon? Then all that's left is giving thrown an advantage over ranged to make up for the really poor damage dice. I'd say, increase base thrown speed, and add a dual ranged allacrity feat. Allows you to equip thrown weapons in the off hand, and gives you a % based on your attack bonus to throw the second weapon. <5 = BAB+6%, 5-9 = 2*BAB+5%, 10-14 =3*BAB%, 15-20, 3*BAB +10%



As a side note, I only came across this thread while trying to make my own halfling thrower build. Going to go for a 13/6/1 druid/monk/ (fighter?) Druid allows for ki generation while a throwing weapon is equipped, allowing for interesting effects using a shuriken from evening star challenge vendors. It also lets me use spells to help trigger shiradi double rainbow effects

Most ranged feats work with them. Precise shot works in that it lets you go through mobs to hit your target, just not the Archers Focus part of it.

[ZeebaNeighba]

My AA can throw the boulders in abbot for 600 damage a pop and Shiradi procs. I like it.

[FranOhmsford]

The Devs changed Armours completely - Splint Mail and Banded Mail got thrown out with the Rubbish!

I would hope that the devs could do something similar for Weapons:

1. Get rid of Throwing Hammer as a Weapon type.

2. Get rid of Hand Axe as a Weapon type.

3. Get rid of Throwing Dagger as a Weapon type

3. Allow Warhammers and Light Hammers to be thrown IF Character has Weapon Focus Thrown.

4. Change Throwing Axes entirely - Give them New Stats - In between Hand-Axe and BattleAxe.

5. Allow Dwarves to Throw D-Axes if they have Weapon Focus Thrown.

6. Allow Daggers to be thrown if Character has taken Weapon Focus Thrown.

Oh and for goodness sake - Give Dwarven Clerics Warhammer Proficiency as a Free Feat!

[Falco_Easts]

The Devs changed Armours completely - Splint Mail and Banded Mail got thrown out with the Rubbish!

I would hope that the devs could do something similar for Weapons:

1. Get rid of Throwing Hammer as a Weapon type.
Why? While not optimal it is a blunt thrower for DR. Why get rid of it?

2. Get rid of Hand Axe as a Weapon type.
Why? While not optimal it is a light offhand axe for TWF. Why get rid of it?

3. Get rid of Throwing Dagger as a Weapon type
Why? While not optimal it gives another variety to throwers.

3. Allow Warhammers and Light Hammers to be thrown IF Character has Weapon Focus Thrown.
Only with a penalty to hit. They are not made to be thrown.

4. Change Throwing Axes entirely - Give them New Stats - In between Hand-Axe and BattleAxe.
Thraxes are fine.

5. Allow Dwarves to Throw D-Axes if they have Weapon Focus Thrown.
Only with a big penalty to hit. They are not made to be thrown.

6. Allow Daggers to be thrown if Character has taken Weapon Focus Thrown.
Possibly.

Oh and for goodness sake - Give Dwarven Clerics Warhammer Proficiency as a Free Feat!
/Shrug. Why not.

My thoughts in red.

I would just like to see TWF feats affect throwers. Or a new range of feats that allow dual throwing.

I was actually thinking this morning on how they might impliment spear if they ever do. I thought that when you drag it to hotbar or weapon set you get the choice to drop it as a throwing weapon or melee.

[FranOhmsford]

My thoughts in red.

I would just like to see TWF feats affect throwers. Or a new range of feats that allow dual throwing.

I was actually thinking this morning on how they might impliment spear if they ever do. I thought that when you drag it to hotbar or weapon set you get the choice to drop it as a throwing weapon or melee.

The reasons why those weapons should go were in my post!

Warhammers not made to be thrown? Tell that to R.A.Salvatore, Wulfgar and Aegis-Fang!

D-Axes - These are PURE Fantasy weapons for Dwarves - If the DDO Devs decide that they can be thrown {By Dwarves} then this should be enough.


Again - Our Weapons are Magical - They are not normal Warhammers or D-Axes.
Sun-Blades are B@st@rd Swords masquerading as Short Swords.
Why shouldn't Dwarves make their Magical D-Axes capable of being thrown?

The whole set up of Throwing Weapons in DDO is unwieldy.
Returning Weapons are what people look for - 20 +5 Throwing Hammers just get vendored instantly and without thought.

In PnP we were able to go up to mobs after we'd killed them and get back our Throwing Weapons, Arrows and Bolts {Yes with rules for Arrows and Bolts that allowed for breakages} - We cannot do this in DDO making Returners mandatory.
We also have far too few Returning Weapons of any use.

Making {Magical - At least +1 Enchantment} D-Axes and Warhammers throwable would eliminate the need for some of these.
Making all {Magical - At least +1 Enchantment} Daggers throwable would eliminate the need for more of these.

I'd also suggest changes to the returning status of ALL Arrows and Bolts in game - Something like:

Arrows/Bolts - 25% Returning
Masterwork Arrows/Bolts - 50% Returning
House Deneith Arrows/Bolts - 75% Returning
+4s - 80% Returning
+5s - 85% Returning
Abilities like Frost/True Chaos/Bane etc. would add 2% per Item plus {Top right corner like Cannith Crafting}.

This would give NON-AA Archers and Rogue Mechs without Arti Splash a big boost.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

I have a thrown weapon build I leveled to 20 some time ago. I used thrown weapons most of the way through. I had a blast. The entire thing started out from scratch back before TR and I rerolled at least 6 times, each time working out ways to get more and more DPS out of it. Ended up with a kensai fighter halfling and using a T2 Greensteel thrown axe. I'd crit for 170 with a range of 17-20 iirc? Sure it wasn't optimal, and compared to the Kensai greatsword I have now, it's dismal.

Eventually, I had to start asking before joining groups to be sure the leader was alright with it. Most didn't care. I had lots of questions from other players and most seemed either neutral or sometimes positive. There were negative people trying to get me down about it for sure, but few and far between. I haven't really pugged with her since the F2P so I can't say how'd the Pugs would react nowadays. I've had lots of ideas to try and revive her (some have been named already in this thread), but haven't because of restricted play time and I'm concentrating on another project of mine.

[Vargouille]

Read by a dev.

[peng]

Read by a dev.

Not showing up in dev tracker for me.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Read by a dev.

Thank you for the post. I've looked over some of the options introduced with epic destinies and it's an improvment, but i'm hoping with this enhancement changes and perhaps other changes that you devs will make this toon at least a little more closer in line with other DPS builds.