Kicked with not chance to explain...

[robinfu]

Huh?

I got halfling rogue assassin that always has crit. succes on disabling any traps and didn't had an issue(done all of them multiple times) with any epic raid/quest in game. I have less than 500 hp's and never had an issue with dying (except dq1 lava until I got K. boots)

First lifer.

Also I'm finesse build // emidnights // assasinate DC 41-2 which is almost unsaveable for most situations. So what's the deal about halfling rogues O.o

With possessing evasion and 16/16/16 build as a first lifer you don't need more then 460 hp's to be able to survive and do any quest/raid in game. You'll have enough skill points (and more than enough) and I don't see the advantage of any race as a rogue above others. O.o


Greentally/Khyber

[Beer_Dude]

Remind me what i said about rouge? The thing that their rogue skills are better only because they are elves and have more base INT. I didn't say anything about dps. I said only about skills. Next time quote my post as argument.

At last, I didn't say anything about other class. If I did it - quote my post. I remember: I said only about rogue/drow and bard. You failed, green aberration.
.

"If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact." Quoted from you.

That line is a total farse. My 1st life rogue is capped now at level 20. He's a str based human with only 11 levels of rogue and dex was a dump stat. Int. was just enough to monkey around with assassin if I had it to do over it would be a dump stat too. I've never failed to open a lock or disable a trap. Mind you this is his first life so no gear other than an int item and +15 disable device (at level 15). Again I've never, ever, ever blown a trap with this toon. Not even in a drunken stupor where I forgot to put on my disable item. So don't tell me a "Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact" when it just isn't true. Again you're like some other axe weilding player that toots his own horn about how well he knows the game. The difference is he's right more than he's wrong but you're wrong more than you're right.

So who gives a rats arse if Drow get more rogue skill points. It sure as heck doesn't mean non Drow races lack in rogue skills. Not in the slightest. It has nothing to do with race of toon what so ever. Nothing at all. Any race can take down any trap as a rogue on a 1st lifer with no gear other than the basic disable items that are appropriate for that level of toon. If they fail it's because they are to lazy too get the basic gear or too stupid to build their toon and spend their skill points properly. I will be Tring this toon into a horc rogue with no more than 12 levels of rogue and I assure you I will never misss a trap so long as I have the very basic trapper gear/items on along with an Int item. Even starting with the -2 to Int and missing the Elf skill sets for traps. I assure you I will have no issues taking down traps.

That fact of the matter the best trapper in the game for a 1st lifer with no gear isn't even a rogue. It's a wiz with capped out Int and one freaking level of rogue. The only way even an Elf rogue 1st lifer will catch up in DD is if they dump all their stats to max out Int and then into con to stay alive. Making themselves totally worthless as a melee toon other than a few assassinates here and there along the way. Go put 20 points into Int and 16 (heck even 14 points) into con on a drow and see how many points that leaves you for dex or str to serve any purpose what so ever as a melee toon. Better yet go try and solo with that toon. Because I know on my above mentioned rogue's second life as a horc with very little int he'll be able to solo most everything with his radiance weapon and armor coupled w/ a lit II weapon and traps won't be an issue either.

[Boneshank]

again you're like some other axe weilding player that toots his own horn about how well he knows the game. The difference is he's right more than he's wrong but you're wrong more than you're right.

lol.

[Nubicus]

All I hear is

/thread

[Quarterling]

Do you really think that +2 SA damage is worth of 4 AP. Many people do not think as you do. Tier III - yes. Tier IV - too expensive.

Of course I think it's worth it.

I actually had extra AP to spend, so I put those into Bluff and Wand and Scroll Mastery.

Rogue Damage Boost I-II
Rogue Haste Boost I-IV
Rogue Deadly Shadow
Halfling Cunning I-IV
Halfling Guile I-IV
Subtle Backstabbing I-III
Toughness I-II
Assassin I-III
Sneak Attack Accuracy I-IV
Sneak Attack Training I-IV
Improved Bluff I-II
Improved Hide I-II
Improved Move Silently I-II
Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I-II

My reasoning on why other skills are not as optimal.

Extra Action Boost: You already get enough action boosts, I don't usually use them on trash as I save them all for the boss.
Action Boost Skills: Skills are already MORE than high enough. Increasing them further is useless.
Energy Resistance: 30 Resists are plenty good enough.
Dexterity Enhancements: Don't need it, way too pricy to increase a stat by just one.
Fear Resistance: Useless.
Heroic Companion: Useless.
Halfling Luck: Saves are already high enough, and the only one you really need to worry about end-game is reflex which is more than covered.
Halfling Skill: See "Action Boost Skills"
Halfling Thrown Attack/Damage: Useless.
Item Defense: Useless.
Faster Sneaking: I don't spend a lot of time sneaking, so no point in getting it.
Skill Enhancements: See "Action Boost Skills". While I do have two ranks in Bluff, that would be the only skill I'd really recommend. Even so, I wish I had something better so I could spend those AP elsewhere.
Trap Sense: Useless. Improved Evasion and I already only fail on ones.
Wand DC: Useless.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Ok, you advice to take 16 CON always. But 2 races cannot do this. Well, there are many nice drow/elf players. You aren't correct.

Good ****ing luck trying to find a quote where I said that, I've never advised that and never would.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Huh?

I got halfling rogue assassin that always has crit. succes on disabling any traps and didn't had an issue(done all of them multiple times) with any epic raid/quest in game. I have less than 500 hp's and never had an issue with dying (except dq1 lava until I got K. boots)

First lifer.

Also I'm finesse build // emidnights // assasinate DC 41-2 which is almost unsaveable for most situations. So what's the deal about halfling rogues O.o

With possessing evasion and 16/16/16 build as a first lifer you don't need more then 460 hp's to be able to survive and do any quest/raid in game. You'll have enough skill points (and more than enough) and I don't see the advantage of any race as a rogue above others. O.o


Greentally/Khyber

460 HP is really nice for a rogue but in my experience it isn't enough to run epic lord of blades.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Of course I think it's worth it.

I actually had extra AP to spend, so I put those into Bluff and Wand and Scroll Mastery.

Rogue Damage Boost I-II
Rogue Haste Boost I-IV
Rogue Deadly Shadow
Halfling Cunning I-IV
Halfling Guile I-IV
Subtle Backstabbing I-III
Toughness I-II
Assassin I-III
Sneak Attack Accuracy I-IV
Sneak Attack Training I-IV
Improved Bluff I-II
Improved Hide I-II
Improved Move Silently I-II
Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I-II

My reasoning on why other skills are not as optimal.

Extra Action Boost: You already get enough action boosts, I don't usually use them on trash as I save them all for the boss.
Action Boost Skills: Skills are already MORE than high enough. Increasing them further is useless.
Energy Resistance: 30 Resists are plenty good enough.
Dexterity Enhancements: Don't need it, way too pricy to increase a stat by just one.
Fear Resistance: Useless.
Heroic Companion: Useless.
Halfling Luck: Saves are already high enough, and the only one you really need to worry about end-game is reflex which is more than covered.
Halfling Skill: See "Action Boost Skills"
Halfling Thrown Attack/Damage: Useless.
Item Defense: Useless.
Faster Sneaking: I don't spend a lot of time sneaking, so no point in getting it.
Skill Enhancements: See "Action Boost Skills". While I do have two ranks in Bluff, that would be the only skill I'd really recommend. Even so, I wish I had something better so I could spend those AP elsewhere.
Trap Sense: Useless. Improved Evasion and I already only fail on ones.
Wand DC: Useless.

Heroic Companion is a solid reason to choose halfling race until U14 for the AC boost to make a tank untouchable.
Saves are useful, I doubt you have "save on a 2" status against some epic/elite disintegrates and dancing balls are a pain in the ass.
Skill Boost is a definite keeper as deaths happen and you need to be able to get that res scroll off (how many death penalties can you take before you don't have 100% on resurrection scroll anymore?).
Trap Sense is good but for dex rogue I'm sure you're fine without it.
Wand and Scroll Mastery is where it's at though, no reason not to take rank III and IV of this to be able to fill in as a healer or to keep yourself healed without requiring multiple scrolls.

[AirbornedChild]

Skill Boost is a definite keeper as deaths happen and you need to be able to get that res scroll off (how many death penalties can you take before you don't have 100% on resurrection scroll anymore?).

Wand and Scroll Mastery is where it's at though, no reason not to take rank III and IV of this to be able to fill in as a healer or to keep yourself healed without requiring multiple scrolls.

Haste Boost... Never took it. Simply Damage Boost is enough. And it is prepeq for Sin prestige.

Scroll Mastery IV is really great. Really. Yes, it costs much but it is very useful.

Skillboost? May be. How much CHA can halfling get at start? Drow can get 16 for 6 points. Easy. I don't think that every rogue Halfling will start with 14. Remark: TR drow.

[AirbornedChild]

...

I saw faults of drow and non drow. There are just bad rogues. But you know. I just answered to one dude who said that he will decline ANY drow rogue. Every race has benefits. People just like to use stereotypes.

Every character can die. But people think that drow die more often. It is not correct. I have just finished Small problem at level. The only death was... barb. Look. Barb has low saves. REALLY LOW SAVES. My Elven FvS doesn't have any high ability because TWF. Need STR, DEX, CHA(UMD), 2 points per level not enough(Concentration, Jump, UMD, Diplo, Balance). In fact INT is more important for classes with less amount of pints(so rogue and bard can start even with 8, sometimes).

There are just new players which cannot build their characters. But you always look at character's skin!!! It is racism.

Are you? Stop looking at color of skin.

Wdf man you have no chain of thought. This is not a language issue.

Welcome. It is speaking manner. I'm too logical. Overlogical. It is my brain - some cells must die after child is born, but mine didn't die, so I had to raise with more logical reasons: buy only what you need, eat only what you really need(ignore restaurants), never spend money for overpriced goods etc.

[DrunkenBuddha]

Haste Boost... Never took it.

I stopped reading there. Well, okay, I'm still reading. Or laughing. Or both.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Haste Boost... Never took it. Simply Damage Boost is enough. And it is prepeq for Sin prestige.

Scroll Mastery IV is really great. Really. Yes, it costs much but it is very useful.

Skillboost? May be. How much CHA can halfling get at start? Drow can get 16 for 6 points. Easy. I don't think that every rogue Halfling will start with 14. Remark: TR drow.

Yeah, not taking haste boost is about as big a fail as you can make as a rogue. Honestly, I can't think of anything worse.

Skill boost for 1 point is a no brainer regardless of race, there will always be a time when you want to hit a resurrection scroll (43 UMD required) and have a death penalty or two and the skill boost will help. It also helps when you want to hit a high UMD water mark without gear swaps sometimes.

16 charisma on a drow rogue leaves you with 16 dex, 12 con, 16 int, 12 strength? Yep, 12 con drow rogues, that's a quick way to a squishy character that gets booted from challenging content. 0 points should be invested into charisma on a rogue as you can hit 39 UMD for heal scrolls without gear swaps anyway and the points are better invested elsewhere (strength or constitution usually).

[Schmoe]

Haste Boost... Never took it. Simply Damage Boost is enough.

You should rethink this.

[anto_capone]

Welcome. It is speaking manner. I'm too logical. Overlogical. It is my brain - some cells must die after child is born, but mine didn't die, so I had to raise with more logical reasons: buy only what you need, eat only what you really need(ignore restaurants), never spend money for overpriced goods etc.

Some of my brain cells died reading your 'logic'....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT4B-NJUcZE

[jkm]

Haste Boost... Never took it. Simply Damage Boost is enough. And it is prepeq for Sin prestige.

Scroll Mastery IV is really great. Really. Yes, it costs much but it is very useful.

Skillboost? May be. How much CHA can halfling get at start? Drow can get 16 for 6 points. Easy. I don't think that every rogue Halfling will start with 14. Remark: TR drow.

I just have to laugh here. Here is a little secret -> Humans can have Haste Boost 4 and Damage Boost 4 active at the same time. Oh and you only get dinged for one activation timer, not two.

[robinfu]

460 HP is really nice for a rogue but in my experience it isn't enough to run epic lord of blades.

True, tho I did it with 519 ship buffed. Not much more but considering I got Scroll and Wand Mastery 2 (( No fail UMD scrolls on Heal/Recon/TS/Ada/Prismatic)).

Haste Boost... Never took it. Simply Damage Boost is enough. And it is prepeq for Sin prestige.

Skillboost? May be. How much CHA can halfling get at start? Drow can get 16 for 6 points. Easy. I don't think that every rogue Halfling will start with 14. Remark: TR drow.

And not taking Haste Boost as a Rogue is such a fail.

Why would any rogue start with cha 16 O.o.

Started with 8 didn't had any issue with my UMD scrolls. ((Epic Big Top/Epic Spyglass Tier 3/Six Fingered Gloves/GS tripple char(+6 exc char skills)/+6 char item/Persuasion/Command)) So many items to increase your UMD without hurting CON/STR/DEX.
For all thats good why would you start with Cha more than 8 o.O

[Quarterling]

Heroic Companion is a solid reason to choose halfling race until U14 for the AC boost to make a tank untouchable.
Saves are useful, I doubt you have "save on a 2" status against some epic/elite disintegrates and dancing balls are a pain in the ass.
Skill Boost is a definite keeper as deaths happen and you need to be able to get that res scroll off (how many death penalties can you take before you don't have 100% on resurrection scroll anymore?).
Trap Sense is good but for dex rogue I'm sure you're fine without it.
Wand and Scroll Mastery is where it's at though, no reason not to take rank III and IV of this to be able to fill in as a healer or to keep yourself healed without requiring multiple scrolls.

I know Heroic Companion is really powerful at tier IV, but how many halflings actually take it (that aren't bards, I know when I'm taking my bard life no doubt I'll be picking that enhancement up)? In my entire life playing DDO, not once have I ever heard about people wanting or needing the boost.

And you're right about Skill Boost. Though I probably won't use it much, I can definitely sacrifice +1 bluff for +2 to all skills.

...and finally...

Haste Boost... Never took it. Simply Damage Boost is enough.

My response to this is the exact same as to what DrunkenBuddha, wax_on_wax_off, Schmoe, jkm, and robinfu have expressed.

[Machination]

You like human because it is your favorite race. But it is not mine. I don't think you want to see whole game of human rogues, human clerics, human FvS, horc/WF barbs. All races have their benefits..

Hey, I don't argue with that, all races have their benefits. I was just commenting on the guy's misunderstanding that "human rogues can't do traps". Fact is ANY class can be a rogue and do all the traps. Humans do make great rogues though, but ANY class can be a great rogue, agreed.

And yeah, I like playing the human for the flexibility, but I don't expect everyone else to play one, especially if you don't like playing one! Do what you like!!!

[danielhrobbins]

Yeah, not taking haste boost is about as big a fail as you can make as a rogue. Honestly, I can't think of anything worse.

I'd say it is the 2nd biggest fail ... #1 is choosing drow ...

My main toon is a rogue, and I'm a fairly big advocate of them - but I have to agree with what someone else said earlier - I see drow and I fear the worst. I sit at a nice 521 hp unbuffed, elf - yes, elf - completely buffed up I get close to 600. When I lead a group I always take rogues if I need dps, but I dont like to take them unless they have at least 450 hp standing.

I dont even know why people still make them - traps are a non issue end-game, one I'd just as soon let the arties take care of while I'm busy doing what rogues do best: killing. Really. I dont even see why there is a discussion about traps. If someone accepts my rogue just for the traps, I - as well all other rogues - should feel insulted. Why turn a dps machine into a trap monkey? It is very easy to get traps without sacrificing hp or dps.

I dont even really understand why people still make drow rogues ... For the skill points? Really? How is it possible not to get more than enough as it is?

Yeah, maybe it is an ******* thing to do, but I see drow rogue and more times than not I pass - it just screams "please carry my soul stone around" and usually that assumption is right ... not always, but usually.

HP is king.

[Beer_Dude]

[QUOTE=AirbornedChild;4525248] But you know. I just answered to one dude who said that he will decline ANY drow rogue. QUOTE]

Yes but your answer to "one dude" was a bold blanket statement of, according to you, facts. Those facts being "Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact" according to. Which as I said is a total farse. Non drow rogues don't lack rogue skills. They may get a few less points to add into rogue skills but they are far from lacking in rogues skills, and in no way does this hinder them from trapping end game even with just basic gear.

Again this was your blanket bold statement not mine. I just called you out on it. Regardless if you were answering "one dude" you made a false statement and I called you out on it. To put it in your own words "you know this fact". Your anwser to "one dude" is irrelevent to your statement in that answer that I calld BS on.