Kicked with not chance to explain...

[Aedra1]

First let me say that my rogue is drow and I've worked really hard to get her the HP she needs. With all my gear I'm at 379, with boat buffs at 399, and with madstone rage at 435 (and I do find it hits fairly often).

Since this is the toon I do all my selling and crafting with, there are times I' run around with just a charisma stat item and a high haggle item so my hit points are under 300 when I do this.

Since I really enjoy doing VoD runs and I still need the XP.... especially from hard runs, I hit the LFM while not in gear. I was accepted but was immediately kicked from the party with the leader only saying "WHOA! those are some low hit points, sorry" and boom I'm kicked. I didn't get a chance to explain or even put my gear back on... though I did send a tell after the kicking (with not response).

Honestly, I'm not hurt or upset, but, I think allowing someone a chance to put their "clothes" back on would have been nicer. And if 399 when I'm ready to start isn't enough, then fine... whateveh.

(OH and by the way the lvl 20 rogue that was in his party shows as having 376 hp and only 75% fort... and the leader (a caster) has 397.) Again... whateveh!

[morticianjohn]

We had a lvl 20 arti join our abbot the other day and his HP was showing at 49 or something. Not one person batted an eye and we went in and did the quest just fine.... granted it was an arti and they have ways of lowering their HP so in reality he was over 400 HP but still....

Sometimes I join a group and realize that I probably don't look good right now so quickly do some item swaps before anyone thinks to kick me. I've never had it happen yet (where someone kicked me due to low stats because I didn't have my 90 HP con/gfl belt on) but I do think that leaders should be reasonable. We get a LOT of our HP from gear (especially rogues) so at least ask them if they're usually sitting at 280 or if they've got some way of having a much higher sustainable HP.

Two items isn't a lot to swap and can equal 135 HP which is pretty significant going from 280 to 415 unbuffed is pretty significant.

[Enoach]

They just jumped to conclusions. It happens.

Honestly, when I see someone with lower HP than I expected (such as having Character Hit Dice * Level for HP) I first will check MyDDO to give me an idea of what was their starting Constitution. More for a frame of reference than a Auto-Kick.

I'll have a conversation with them asking about their HP, letting them know that Quest X could be brutal on Low HP characters. On more than one occasion have I had the "Oh %$#" I'm wearing my haggle gear.

Example:

Running an at level Xorian Cipher - Wizard level 8 joins and has high 80's for HP. Everyone else in the Group has 180+. A quick MyDDO showed he had a starting Constitution of 14, and no gear. While I'm receiving tells from the sorcerer in the party telling me how this guy will die over and over again and hurt his XP by 10%. I have a brief conversation. Wizard was new, but willing to learn. He knew he was under geared and that it could be rough but wanted to come any way.

First I don't sweat 10% xp, stuff happens. Second I was the Party Leader and Healer so I was not asking someone else to take on any burden of keeping this wizard alive.

Wizard did die, but only in the last fight. He however was not the first to do so.

to the OP, don't sweat these types of things one day these people will also do something like that, be quick to be judged and find themselves where you are now

to Party leaders judging by HP, if its that much of a concern and someone joins than take the 30 seconds to find out if its just the wrong gear, if its not the wrong gear and they actually do just have low HP and you would prefer not to run with the risk - Give them a graceful out first. It looks better for everyone if they leave the group, also less hard feelings. Also judge newer players HP based on being better than Hit Dice * Level not based on months/years of gear griding.

[AirbornedChild]

Also judge newer players HP based on being better than Hit Dice * Level not based on months/years of gear griding.

Agree. We should be more polite to new players. My first VoD on rogue was elite. I blew 2 boxes. I had less than 300 hp(and died 4 times summary). I didn't know about pots.

But they promised me because it was my first time. So judging by amount of HP is not correct.

PS Even legends with 10+ lifes can die in Litany. So what about new players?

[Blank_Zero]

something something something

All I hear is

[Nubicus]

All I hear is

/thread

[Eladiun]

I can understand the assumption that it's 300 with ship buffs so after you die which would be guaranteed at 300 hp you would be a sub 200 soul stone statue. The fact that he didn't reply to your tells after when you said you had haggle gear on is a bit weak but yeah, I took a sub 300 caster once to Elite VoD. (It was the last spot in a really good party.) He recalled after death number 11 before half time.

[Gawna]

Did you make a drow rogue on purpose? With the cleaving orthons and devil damage, I can't say that it's surprising that you were booted for hp when someone wanted to run a hard VoD. They should have given you a chance to explain yourself. There are lots of players that are a HUGE asset to a party no matter their hit points. But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst. That is, until Eladiun sends me a tell saying, "Take them! I promise you will LOVE them!"

[Eladiun]

Did you make a drow rogue on purpose? With the cleaving orthons and devil damage, I can't say that it's surprising that you were booted for hp when someone wanted to run a hard VoD. They should have given you a chance to explain yourself. There are lots of players that are a HUGE asset to a party no matter their hit points. But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst. That is, until Eladiun sends me a tell saying, "Take them! I promise you will LOVE them!"

I like making you sweat.

[AirbornedChild]

But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst.

If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.

It is like barb without Kyosho lack pds comparing to barb with Kyosho. Agree? This way non drow rogues really lack inherent rogue skills.

And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

[jydog100]

Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.
And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

What are you smoking? a first life human can get any traps in the game if played properly.
I personaly know of a human 1st life level 13 rog/6 ran/1 ftr that was one of the few rogues on the server to get the epic von5 traps when the dc's were insanely high

learn the game first before you give inaccurate "facts"

[FranOhmsford]

What are you smoking? a first life human can get any traps in the game if played properly.
I personaly know of a human 1st life level 13 rog/6 ran/1 ftr that was one of the few rogues on the server to get the epic von5 traps when the dc's were insanely high

learn the game first before you give inaccurate "facts"

He/She's not giving "inaccurate facts"

They're talking from experience.

Drow Rogues tend to be set up for traps {First life characters - At low levels you learn that traps are important - You don't learn that this isn't the same at high levels}.

I too have seen plenty of rogues {and rogue splashes} blow up trapboxes - Incl one TR who thought he could do Tempest Spine Elite with 1 level of Rogue - He couldn't - I was on my Elf Acrobat at the time.

Too many people on these forums assume that everyone has the best gear at all levels - You instantly started talking about Epics {even though the OP was talking about VoD} and we all know Epic traps are less hard than Gianthold.

Too many people on these forums advocate dumping Int on a rogue - Those people playing Drow Rogues {1st life} aren't reading these forums - They aren't dumping Int - They will have 0 chance to Crit fail if they have the right gear.
Human/Halfling etc. may very well be able to crit fail certain traps - Even if that's only on a 1 Murphy's Law insists that it will happen at the worst possible time.

[Spoprockel]

He/She's not giving "inaccurate facts"

They're talking from experience.

Drow Rogues tend to be set up for traps {First life characters - At low levels you learn that traps are important - You don't learn that this isn't the same at high levels}.

I too have seen plenty of rogues {and rogue splashes} blow up trapboxes - Incl one TR who thought he could do Tempest Spine Elite with 1 level of Rogue - He couldn't - I was on my Elf Acrobat at the time.

Too many people on these forums assume that everyone has the best gear at all levels - You instantly started talking about Epics {even though the OP was talking about VoD} and we all know Epic traps are less hard than Gianthold.

Too many people on these forums advocate dumping Int on a rogue - Those people playing Drow Rogues {1st life} aren't reading these forums - They aren't dumping Int - They will have 0 chance to Crit fail if they have the right gear.
Human/Halfling etc. may very well be able to crit fail certain traps - Even if that's only on a 1 Murphy's Law insists that it will happen at the worst possible time.

So what does race have to do with gear? Those 2 points of extra int on your drow won't make much difference.

If people don't build their toons right they will blow up trap boxes.
If people don't have the right gear at lvl they will blow up trap boxes.
A different race won't change anything.

There's only a few people on these boards advocating dumped int on a rogue, and everytime they give their 'advice' they get called out on it.



To the OP: The first thing many, many party leaders check is your HP total. Especially if you apply on a rogue.
Keep that in mind, and equip your HP gear before applying.
I know it's silly, but some people have seen too many bad rogues with really low hp go splat after a few hits and contribute nothing to the party.

[jydog100]

Too many people on these forums assume that everyone has the best gear at all levels - You instantly started talking about Epics {even though the OP was talking about VoD} and we all know Epic traps are less hard than Gianthold.

with a 6/10 join date i dont think you were around when epic von 5 had search/disable/open lock dc's in the 85+ range. at the time they were the highest traps in the game and brought on a lot of discussion to nerf them (they did, obviously).

his inaccurate fact was saying that a first life human would fail traps when in reality any race at any time at any life stage can fail or succede at any trap.

The stereotypes that get put on rogues is nothing new and will always be there to some degree. Play the toon as best you can. gear it up well and move on. If you get denied, ohwell. move on. Heck, I've been denied on some easy **** on my rogue (500+ hp, 40+ str yadda yadda yadda). I can always pull her out when eric needs a barbarian for the shroud!!!

[Bahgs]

What are you smoking?

I thought it was already established that bamboo was the smoke of choice for Comrade Airborned.

[Mubjon]

If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.

It is like barb without Kyosho lack pds comparing to barb with Kyosho. Agree? This way non drow rogues really lack inherent rogue skills.

And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

I have created a cleric/rogue that has been able to get all traps so far at level on elite (2 levels above his current level) with just the single rogue level, he is dwarf at that as well.

And he is a first lifer. It is not the race that matters it is how the person building the character does it.

[FranOhmsford]

I have created a cleric/rogue that has been able to get all traps so far at level on elite (2 levels above his current level) with just the single rogue level, he is dwarf at that as well.

And he is a first lifer. It is not the race that matters it is how the person building the character does it.

Didn't you notice the post he/she was replying to?

He/she was defending Drow Rogues.

And he/she is right - Many many people don't build/play rogues properly and race is indeed a factor.

You play a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue and I'm betting you play it well - Doesn't mean the majority of people who play Cleric/Rogues {and there are a surprising amount} play them anywhere near as well as you do.

I tried a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue myself - Got him to Lvl 8 before I gave up and deleted him. {Could probably build him right now BUT I have more characters than I know what to do with as is.

[Mubjon]

Didn't you notice the post he/she was replying to?

He/she was defending Drow Rogues.

And he/she is right - Many many people don't build/play rogues properly and race is indeed a factor.

You play a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue and I'm betting you play it well - Doesn't mean the majority of people who play Cleric/Rogues {and there are a surprising amount} play them anywhere near as well as you do.

I tried a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue myself - Got him to Lvl 8 before I gave up and deleted him. {Could probably build him right now BUT I have more characters than I know what to do with as is.

He might have been defending drow rogues, but made a blanket statement about other races playing rogues that is not correct. I have seen drow rogues (pure mind you) fail to get traps in the game as well as others. Just because somone is a drow does not mean they are going to be able to grab traps. What he said was just as bad as what happened to the OP, he makes a judgement based on one factor of a character make up.

Yes, those that have played this game for awhile can get by with creating a useful character that can do things that others might not expect. Heck I still get people looking at my little experiment with trepidation at least til I find and disable the trap that the pure rogue in the party could not find or disable. And I always give the pure rogue first crack at the traps if there is one in the party.

All rogues should carry an +int item or prior to being able to equip +4 fox potions or a wand. Heroism pots (unless a friendly arcane or bard will cast greater heroism) and ensure their skill boost from enhancements is maxed for the level they are. Then check the AH for the highest possible disable and search gear minimum for your level which is usually at odd levels (example 9 11, 13, etc). If a rogue does all of that, and they put the skill points into the proper skills each level they will be able to get traps regardless of race.

[Quarterling]

If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.

It is like barb without Kyosho lack pds comparing to barb with Kyosho. Agree? This way non drow rogues really lack inherent rogue skills.

And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

Those "inherent rogue skills" only give you a +1 bonus to disable device and a +2 bonus to search. Those small numbers are completely trivial and mean absolutely nothing since gear will more than make up for it. And race, even the half-orc with a -2 intelligence penalty can still find all the boxes in the game and never fail at disarming a trap.

So you are incorrect in assuming that non-drows "lack inherent rogue skills". They get less constitution which makes them more squishy, and I'd say that's a pretty big downside given the rogue's already low d6 hit die. Of course, the decrease in health can be made up in other ways, but you'll always have less health than a non-drow when a non-drow can do everything a drow can do and retain his constitution.

Seriously, i've got nothing against Drow rogues, but i can't agree with people who act like they are THE one and only uber-rogue race.

Exactly, the one only uber-rogue race is the Halfling!

[AirbornedChild]

Those "inherent rogue skills" only give you a +1 bonus to disable device and a +2 bonus to search. Those small numbers are completely trivial and mean absolutely nothing since gear will more than make up for it. And race, even the half-orc with a -2 intelligence penalty can still find all the boxes in the game and never fail at disarming a trap.
Exactly, the one only uber-rogue race is the Halfling!

I don't trust any half-orc rogue because I know: he/she has more chance to blow trap box comparing to drow.

Halfling? Do you know any character with doudle SA Enhancement lines? I don't. Haflings do not take all +8 because SinIII have only few free AP.

This way drow have all rogue skills higher than any other race. Yes, I'm talking about 1st life. -20 hp is not problem.

I know some rogue put only 8(or even 6) start INT. Also they dump CHA to get high STR and CON. And they have to raise DEX. It is fighter-rogue. We are talking about trapper.

Drow rogues are the wurst.

They are the best trappers. ANd you should lern English with you wOrst. Drow Tempest will **** halfling rogue.