Kicked with not chance to explain...

[taurean430]

pfft, it wouldn't matter if you had 600 hit points. You are going to get punted because of that "Rogue" symbol next to your name. I plan on conducting an experiment in 3-4 more lives on Peppr. How often does the completionist rogue (with 550+ hit points) get rejected out of hand for being a rogue. My current guess is 40-50% of the time.

Yes.

I ran my main through a rouge life recently. While making the attempt to finish it up without the tr group I found myself kicked or declined from pugs regularly. Had 450hp on him before madstone proc as well. According to some people, that's not good enough to do Vale Elites or Shroud Normal.

OP, just laugh, it's all you can do. Some people are just plain ridiculous...

[Mubjon]

Didn't you notice the post he/she was replying to?

He/she was defending Drow Rogues.

And he/she is right - Many many people don't build/play rogues properly and race is indeed a factor.

You play a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue and I'm betting you play it well - Doesn't mean the majority of people who play Cleric/Rogues {and there are a surprising amount} play them anywhere near as well as you do.

I tried a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue myself - Got him to Lvl 8 before I gave up and deleted him. {Could probably build him right now BUT I have more characters than I know what to do with as is.

He might have been defending drow rogues, but made a blanket statement about other races playing rogues that is not correct. I have seen drow rogues (pure mind you) fail to get traps in the game as well as others. Just because somone is a drow does not mean they are going to be able to grab traps. What he said was just as bad as what happened to the OP, he makes a judgement based on one factor of a character make up.

Yes, those that have played this game for awhile can get by with creating a useful character that can do things that others might not expect. Heck I still get people looking at my little experiment with trepidation at least til I find and disable the trap that the pure rogue in the party could not find or disable. And I always give the pure rogue first crack at the traps if there is one in the party.

All rogues should carry an +int item or prior to being able to equip +4 fox potions or a wand. Heroism pots (unless a friendly arcane or bard will cast greater heroism) and ensure their skill boost from enhancements is maxed for the level they are. Then check the AH for the highest possible disable and search gear minimum for your level which is usually at odd levels (example 9 11, 13, etc). If a rogue does all of that, and they put the skill points into the proper skills each level they will be able to get traps regardless of race.

[Spoprockel]

As for race affecting Build choices - Of course it does {this isn't up for debate}.
You don't play a Drow Rogue as a Newbie without Building for Int and Dex.
You don't play a Drow Rogue as a Vet unless you're wanting to spec for Traps/Assassinate - Most Vets know that

I do know certain races are used for certain builds.

However, there's no guarantee that a drow rogue will do any better than a human rogue.

There are indeed newbies who screw up their drow rogues.


Your small sample size of anecdotal evidence does not justify the tone of absolute certainty you are using in your posts.

[Bahgs]

What are you smoking?

I thought it was already established that bamboo was the smoke of choice for Comrade Airborned.

[Aedra1]

The LFM was advertising for a trapper. Therefore I applied and was accepted. The issue wasn't that my character was a rogue or a drow it was the low hit points.

In the OP I mention it just to put the HP in perspective. There was really no way the person who posted the LFM could have known my rogue was a drow.

As to the question of why make a drow, because I was told they make the best rogues. Her first life was as a halfing... her second was as a human... and her third is a drow. I've since regretted it, basically because people seem to hate drow.

[Thrudh]

So what does race have to do with gear? Those 2 points of extra int on your drow won't make much difference.

Drow also get racial enhancement bonuses to spot and search

The main point is that new players running drow rogues are more likely to be focused on traps. They figured out that INT matters, choose Drow on purpose, and spent some points in INT. They're taking the racial enhancements.

Non-drow rogues can be effectively just as good at traps, but it's more LIKELY that a new player playing a drow picked drow because they wanted to be good at traps.

[FranOhmsford]

Drow also get racial enhancement bonuses to spot and search

The main point is that new players running drow rogues are more likely to be focused on traps. They figured out that INT matters, choose Drow on purpose, and spent some points in INT. They're taking the racial enhancements.

Non-drow rogues can be effectively just as good at traps, but it's more LIKELY that a new player playing a drow picked drow because they wanted to be good at traps.

This ^

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
As for race affecting Build choices - Of course it does {this isn't up for debate}.
You don't play a Drow Rogue as a Newbie without Building for Int and Dex.
You don't play a Drow Rogue as a Vet unless you're wanting to spec for Traps/Assassinate - Most Vets know that
I do know certain races are used for certain builds.

However, there's no guarantee that a drow rogue will do any better than a human rogue.

There are indeed newbies who screw up their drow rogues.


Your small sample size of anecdotal evidence does not justify the tone of absolute certainty you are using in your posts.

There's no guarantee of anything in this life {well apart from that you're not getting out of it alive}. And I'm absolutely certain of this.

My statement was simply that newbies would be more likely to boost trap skills on a Drow than on any other race - For the simple reason that Drow lends itself to Trapper Rogues far more than any other race.
As for Vets - Well the chances are they won't be playing Drow Rogues anyway.

I also know for a fact that even TRs can blow up trapboxes - It can happen {and has happened to all of us who've ever played a rogue for more than a couple of hours}.

So lay off the Drow Hate is all I'm saying here really.

[Eladiun]

Drow also get racial enhancement bonuses to spot and search

The main point is that new players running drow rogues are more likely to be focused on traps. They figured out that INT matters, choose Drow on purpose, and spent some points in INT. They're taking the racial enhancements.

Non-drow rogues can be effectively just as good at traps, but it's more LIKELY that a new player playing a drow picked drow because they wanted to be good at traps.

No.

The reason they are running Drow is that the game splash screens sell them as being awesome and you unlock the, some they must be good.

I doubt the proverbial new player has done enough research to see that they get enhancements to spot and search because in the process they would stumble across all the information screaming choose any other race.

Good PR. That's how new players get suckered into Drow.

[jkm]

No.

The reason they are running Drow is that the game splash screens sell them as being awesome and you unlock the, some they must be good.

I doubt the proverbial new player has done enough research to see that they get enhancements to spot and search because in the process they would stumble across all the information screaming choose any other race.

Good PR. That's how new players get suckered into Drow.

In my experience, the new player rogues that are most likely to have the lowest hit point totals are halflings. Our TR group just kinda laughs and goes on because we for the most part aren't picky. We remember them vividly but we don't worry about it.

[Thrudh]

No.

The reason they are running Drow is that the game splash screens sell them as being awesome and you unlock the, some they must be good.

I doubt the proverbial new player has done enough research to see that they get enhancements to spot and search because in the process they would stumble across all the information screaming choose any other race.

Good PR. That's how new players get suckered into Drow.

Drow ARE pretty good for a new player who wants to play a rogue... Bonuses in DEX, INT, and CHA all are good for a rogue.

• It's essentially a 32-point build for people who only have 28-point builds.
• It's easier to get TWF feats starting with a higher DEX because new players don't have tomes
• It's easier to get traps starting with a higher INT
• It's easier to use UMD starting with a higher CHA

My second character was a drow bard/rogue who was my first character to get to 1750 favor (not easy back then) to unlock 32-point builds. He was squishy, yes, but I thought he was a pretty good character. (He's my haggle-bot now - someday I need to TR him).

[Aedra1]

OP, just laugh, it's all you can do. Some people are just plain ridiculous...

I do much and often. I have had the silliest things happen to me lately and for the silliest reasons. I couldn't agree more that people can be totally and outrageously ridiculous!

[Spoprockel]

Drow ARE pretty good for a new player who wants to play a rogue... Bonuses in DEX, INT, and CHA all are good for a rogue.

• It's essentially a 32-point build for people who only have 28-point builds.
• It's easier to get TWF feats starting with a higher DEX because new players don't have tomes
• It's easier to get traps starting with a higher INT
• It's easier to use UMD starting with a higher CHA

My second character was a drow bard/rogue who was my first character to get to 1750 favor (not easy back then) to unlock 32-point builds. He was squishy, yes, but I thought he was a pretty good character. (He's my haggle-bot now - someday I need to TR him).

I always thought they play Drow toons to fit the XxXXXTDTriZZzZxTxxXh theme...

Seriously, i've got nothing against Drow rogues, but i can't agree with people who act like they are THE one and only uber-rogue race.

[jydog100]

Too many people on these forums assume that everyone has the best gear at all levels - You instantly started talking about Epics {even though the OP was talking about VoD} and we all know Epic traps are less hard than Gianthold.

with a 6/10 join date i dont think you were around when epic von 5 had search/disable/open lock dc's in the 85+ range. at the time they were the highest traps in the game and brought on a lot of discussion to nerf them (they did, obviously).

his inaccurate fact was saying that a first life human would fail traps when in reality any race at any time at any life stage can fail or succede at any trap.

The stereotypes that get put on rogues is nothing new and will always be there to some degree. Play the toon as best you can. gear it up well and move on. If you get denied, ohwell. move on. Heck, I've been denied on some easy **** on my rogue (500+ hp, 40+ str yadda yadda yadda). I can always pull her out when eric needs a barbarian for the shroud!!!

[Quarterling]

If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.

It is like barb without Kyosho lack pds comparing to barb with Kyosho. Agree? This way non drow rogues really lack inherent rogue skills.

And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

Those "inherent rogue skills" only give you a +1 bonus to disable device and a +2 bonus to search. Those small numbers are completely trivial and mean absolutely nothing since gear will more than make up for it. And race, even the half-orc with a -2 intelligence penalty can still find all the boxes in the game and never fail at disarming a trap.

So you are incorrect in assuming that non-drows "lack inherent rogue skills". They get less constitution which makes them more squishy, and I'd say that's a pretty big downside given the rogue's already low d6 hit die. Of course, the decrease in health can be made up in other ways, but you'll always have less health than a non-drow when a non-drow can do everything a drow can do and retain his constitution.

Seriously, i've got nothing against Drow rogues, but i can't agree with people who act like they are THE one and only uber-rogue race.

Exactly, the one only uber-rogue race is the Halfling!

[Gawna]

You can't disable traps if you're dead.

[Schmoe]

You can't disable traps if you're dead.

But we can find the traps with your corpse. So there's that.

[sweez]

Drow rogues are the wurst.

[AirbornedChild]

Those "inherent rogue skills" only give you a +1 bonus to disable device and a +2 bonus to search. Those small numbers are completely trivial and mean absolutely nothing since gear will more than make up for it. And race, even the half-orc with a -2 intelligence penalty can still find all the boxes in the game and never fail at disarming a trap.
Exactly, the one only uber-rogue race is the Halfling!

I don't trust any half-orc rogue because I know: he/she has more chance to blow trap box comparing to drow.

Halfling? Do you know any character with doudle SA Enhancement lines? I don't. Haflings do not take all +8 because SinIII have only few free AP.

This way drow have all rogue skills higher than any other race. Yes, I'm talking about 1st life. -20 hp is not problem.

I know some rogue put only 8(or even 6) start INT. Also they dump CHA to get high STR and CON. And they have to raise DEX. It is fighter-rogue. We are talking about trapper.

Drow rogues are the wurst.

They are the best trappers. ANd you should lern English with you wOrst. Drow Tempest will **** halfling rogue.

[Eladiun]

You can't disable traps if you're dead.

But we can find the traps with your corpse. So there's that.

Gawna's soulstone provides a moral bonus to all rogue skills. The devs felt bad about Winnar...

[Tap4black]

Gawna's soulstone provides a moral bonus to all rogue skills. The devs felt bad about Winnar...

Why do you say that Jeffy?