Khyber PUGs?

[tuta]

My home server is Thelanis, but I wanted to see how it looks on other servers, so I've leveled a toon (WF Archmage) on Khyber to see how some raids are played to gain a different perspective.

I must admit I've been in some raids where I was really impressed, i.e. perfectly executed eDQ2, funny all caster eChrono, speedy VoD,... However I got also rather big number of utter failures - almost failed 1 hour normal Shroud, quickest wipe in HoX I could ever imagine, wipe in Snitch, wipe in IQ, I could really go on. I have a feeling that I have to multiply my estimated time I will be spending in a quest by at least 2. eLod for 30 minutes and going to all the perch spots is just too hard on me.

It might be that I might be a problem as I'm probably too used to zerging. So, if other people don't zerg, I can't brute force the quest on my toon on Khyber, so I sort of give up and watch the train-wreck.

So, how do you feel? It is funny to tell all these horror stories to my guildies on Thelanis which all start like: "I went to Khyber and clicked on ... LFM" but you can't all suck here. Or can you?

Are here some unwritten rules I'm missing? Like that casters should be buffing others automatically (as I of course don't do, but I at least gimped my caster by keeping Extend, so I could be more party-friendly)?

[Blank_Zero]

Well Teth came over here, so we can't be that bad.

[krackythehoodedone]

On Khyber their is a lot of pug activity.

The quality of the groups vary dramatically

After you have been around the server a while you kinda get a feel for what they will be like.

The only other point i would make is that the players doing the most difficult content all know each other pretty well and whilst its easy enough to get a gig you kind of have to prove yourself to be made welcome. Given that you spend most of your time on another server you may have come across this.

I'm sure if you just tried random pugs on any server you would find similar

Where as in your own guild ofc their will be much more consistency

[Renvar]

Hey Forrest,

Don't you remember? Your Mama told you "Pugs are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get."

[sweez]

2. eLod for 30 minutes and going to all the perch spots is just too hard on me.

Lolwut

Someone mentioned those in a few pugs I was in, but the reaction of '*** haha no?' usually steers people in the right direction... or then again it might be my charismatic presence!

Anyway, a story that is very likely completely unrelated and a very bad comparison but in my head it felt like a good comparison so I'll just share it:

When I went to high school, in the same school as us, but in the opposite shift (we had morning/afternoon shifts, changing each week) was a language high school, which was mostly (think 90%+) attended by girls. But, compared to our school (where it was 50-50), they had quite a lower percentage of attractive girls.

So! Applying that same logic to Khyber, it makes sense (in my head!) - we have the highest population, meaning we also have the highest population of completely clueless people

[Jay203]

here in khyber, we learn to enjoy the most out of PUGs even if it ends in train wreck

[AirbornedChild]

we have the highest population, meaning we also have the highest population of completely clueless people

Sometimes "clueless" player is just getting fun with *charming enemies when wizard wanted to hold them*. However, it will not wipe party, so it is not bad. At all.

Just had group in A New Invasion. I said that only I and cleric go down. But 3 member decided to "help" us. Wipe. PUG is always PUG, we have to deal with this fact.

[Meat-Head]

My experience here reflects a big swing in pug quality from day to day or raid to raid. As some have said, there are pretty good-sized pockets of good players who do friend/guild/channel stuff.

I float between both. It keeps it interesting.

[praetor]

i think the problem you have encountered is a common one. khyber does have the highest population judging by post/thread counts. at top-end-game (i.e. elite/epic raiding), the pugging is extremely effective compared to other serves, at least from speaking to top-end guilds of your home server thelanis. however, there tends to be association of end-game players. we all know each other and there's a large population of us, and just by human nature we will typically seek out familiar good players first, i.e. guildies, then people in guilds of similar skill levels. it's rare that i take a player from a guild i've never seen before, much less unguilded. i recognize that this is not conducive to incorporating new players or players from other servers, and i'm definitely at fault, but it's a mental shortcut for raid leaders and one that is often the easy way out for us who try to get in multiple end-game raids a day. shade alluded to this problem of exclusion early last year, and if khyber is to grow it's player base (a big if), raid leaders could all do better to be more inclusive. once again, from a relative standpoint there is much more inter-guild cooperation at end-game on khyber as compared to thelanis, but induction of new players outside of this extended guild network is a big problem here which is what i think you are describing.

[kazeikan]

Sometimes "clueless" player is just getting fun with *charming enemies when wizard wanted to hold them*. However, it will not wipe party, so it is not bad. At all.

Just had group in A New Invasion. I said that only I and cleric go down. But 3 member decided to "help" us. Wipe. PUG is always PUG, we have to deal with this fact.

Hey Devs, I think you let a cleverly disguised spambot through.

[Saaluta]

Sadly, this is a problem on Khyber, and I will admit that I too got to a point for a period of time where I wouldn't even join a PUG unless I knew some of the people in it, although I have gotten out of that mindset a bit more lately while going for completionist on my main Saaluta...although I still have difficulty just putting up an lfm without asking in guild and chat channels first But, keep trying and eventually you will be found out for what you are and accepted more often

Saal

[MeliCat]

My home server is Thelanis, but I wanted to see how it looks on other servers, so I've leveled a toon (WF Archmage) on Khyber to see how some raids are played to gain a different perspective.

I must admit I've been in some raids where I was really impressed, i.e. perfectly executed eDQ2, funny all caster eChrono, speedy VoD,... However I got also rather big number of utter failures - almost failed 1 hour normal Shroud, quickest wipe in HoX I could ever imagine, wipe in Snitch, wipe in IQ, I could really go on. I have a feeling that I have to multiply my estimated time I will be spending in a quest by at least 2. eLod for 30 minutes and going to all the perch spots is just too hard on me.

It might be that I might be a problem as I'm probably too used to zerging. So, if other people don't zerg, I can't brute force the quest on my toon on Khyber, so I sort of give up and watch the train-wreck.

So, how do you feel? It is funny to tell all these horror stories to my guildies on Thelanis which all start like: "I went to Khyber and clicked on ... LFM" but you can't all suck here. Or can you?

Are here some unwritten rules I'm missing? Like that casters should be buffing others automatically (as I of course don't do, but I at least gimped my caster by keeping Extend, so I could be more party-friendly)?

Funny that. Your experience is almost the same as mine. Only the other way around (From Khyber, starting on Thelanis).

I'm yet to see a perfectly executed eDQ on Thelanis yet though.

[tuta]

Maybe I really underestimated how important having a feel for server and being known is. There are some LFMs I can't join on Khyber, either I get declined or my toon is not up-to task (being a sole caster in eDA for example).

On Thelanis, I don't have these restrictions, so if I see for example eChrono where I know some people, I can switch to appropriate char and have a sucessful run. Also if good players see that I'm part of this LFM, they might be more willing to join. On Khyber I could only join this eChrono, if they already have some wizard, don't restrict other wizards, don't MyDDO me and I still don't know how sucessful it might be as I basically don't know anybody there. It might be LFM which any knowledgeable player would avoid like a plague.

So the data must be skewed, I probably didn't realize how much.

[Alternative]

have sence of humor!

[ResEvil6370]

Agree with Viz on the lack of inclusion thing at times. But it's partly up to those who aren't up to scratch to try and improve and learn themselves. Getting carried through quests/raids isn't going to do it really - I recall learning more and still do learn more from when things go wrong as opposed to them working perfectly.

My advice to pugger's or newer players struggling is when something went wrong, think and look into how you personally could have helped that situation or avoided the wipe or whatever. If you dont try and fix weaknesses then they're always gonna be there.

Theres a big contrast between leveling lfm's and endgame lfm's. Party leaders leveling; rather than looking for a group, look for a gathering of solo'ers - prime example being wiz king - ton of lfms wont allow those who cant solo towers into their groups...have seen multiple casters/divines and 'known melees' only - then little Jimmy on his first life paladin cant get a look in. XD A possible negative effect of this is more and more newer people making unnecessary splash builds to aid solo ability and leveling - then when it comes to end game we end up getting some max charisma barbarian/cleric splash monstosity tryna join things XD

So maybe if we are thinkng about making a conscious effort to fix this, we need to look into helping nearer the start of the line rather than the end of it.

[Gawna]

Sometimes "clueless" player is just getting fun with *charming enemies when wizard wanted to hold them*. However, it will not wipe party, so it is not bad. At all.

Just had group in A New Invasion. I said that only I and cleric go down. But 3 member decided to "help" us. Wipe. PUG is always PUG, we have to deal with this fact.

FAT! Green creation!

[sweez]

Hey Devs, I think you let a cleverly disguised spambot through.

Smoke bamboo, comrade.

[AirbornedChild]

induction of new players outside of this extended guild network is a big problem here which is what i think you are describing.

It is really common problem. Old players will leave(it happens). New players will come. Involving new players to epic content is necessary thing for any server.

Offtop There are some ug leaders who will accept any player. Killingspree is, for example. We had new player, sorc adventurer, who was new to sand epics. Wizking: he died 5 times(it is normal for 1st timer). We finished epic, he learnt something new. It is usual practice to involve new players.

Sadly, I don't remember other "teacher" like Killing. But I think they are.

If you can make an example like this - do it.

PS All were new players a long time ago.

[CoasterHops]

PUGs are awesome.
PUGs are cool.
If you don't like Pugging,
then you're a fool.

In all honesty one of the things I like most about DDO is pugging. Sometimes you find great groups, sometimes you don't.

If you are on an Arcane and are involved in a 30 minute Epic Lords of Dust run, whether you are using the pillars (usually done in non healer groups) or not, then some of that slowness should really be on your shoulders.
Not trying to troll just saying that an Arcane should be in a position to push a group towards a speedy completion, no matter the rest of the make up of the party.
IMO in easy epics like Lords of Dust it is really up to the Arcanes to push the speed of the run, although many melee/fvs will also do this.

[ResEvil6370]

...although many melee/fvs will also do this.

...always a bitterpill(s) to swallow when that happens And where's all this poetry in guild chat...we can rhyme with 'gimp' XD

- remember in every group you've been in that fails - you are the common denominator (especially if your the caster in ELoD =P)