precision feat

[bloodnose13]

Seems like precision will still be considered a waste of feat choice, 5% of extra attack is 2 points when haveing around 40, seems to me like it would be much more worth useing if it was like 10% it would double the bonus gained from feat and make it bit more worth, with 5% to get 5 points like in old version would need to have 100 base attack. correct me if im wrong....

[Eladrin]

Seems like precision will still be considered a waste of feat choice, 5% of extra attack is 2 points when haveing around 40, seems to me like it would be much more worth useing if it was like 10% it would double the bonus gained from feat and make it bit more worth, with 5% to get 5 points like in old version would need to have 100 base attack. correct me if im wrong....

Precision is +5% chance to hit at the end.

If you had a 75% chance to hit, you would now have an 80% chance to hit. If you had a 10% chance to hit, it would become 15%.

[bbqzor]

Precision is +5% chance to hit at the end.

If you had a 75% chance to hit, you would now have an 80% chance to hit. If you had a 10% chance to hit, it would become 15%.

The inconsistency between +atk and +%atk has bothered me all throughout beta, both closed and open.

Can we possibly get all bonuses written more plainly? Perhaps instead of +5% attack (which if your attack is say, 40, can easily be interpreted as 40% x 1.05 = 42, instead of the actual 40 = 75% hit +5% = 80% hit), can we get something more intelligible?

Maybe something like +attack reading like it does now on live, something which adds +4 attack, just says +4 attack, and your attack bonus goes up 4. And then something like Precisions +5% reads "+5% accuracy". So you know its affecting your raw accuracy percent, and not your attack value?

Just changing the percentages over to accuracy, and leaving attack as attack, would go a long way to stopping confusion over this issue as well as making it clearer what we should be looking for exactly when we test things. Thanks.

[Trasak]

Like Eladrin is saying precision gets tacked on at the end of the calculation. It will be really useful on fights where the boss has very high AC and you have high to hit or you have too low of to hit normally.

[Trasak]

The inconsistency between +atk and +%atk has bothered me all throughout beta, both closed and open.

Can we possibly get all bonuses written more plainly? Perhaps instead of +5% attack (which if your attack is say, 40, can easily be interpreted as 40% x 1.05 = 42, instead of the actual 40 = 75% hit +5% = 80% hit), can we get something more intelligible?

Maybe something like +attack reading like it does now on live, something which adds +4 attack, just says +4 attack, and your attack bonus goes up 4. And then something like Precisions +5% reads "+5% accuracy". So you know its affecting your raw accuracy percent, and not your attack value?

Just changing the percentages over to accuracy, and leaving attack as attack, would go a long way to stopping confusion over this issue as well as making it clearer what we should be looking for exactly when we test things. Thanks.

Thats a nice idea for a tool tip change Bbqzor. The difference in accuracy 1/2/3 would be 5/10/15% on the roll and plus attack rating will be part of the Hit to Ac comparison that generates the initial hit chance.

[Snarglefrump]

the inconsistency between +atk and +%atk has bothered me all throughout beta, both closed and open.

Can we possibly get all bonuses written more plainly? Perhaps instead of +5% attack (which if your attack is say, 40, can easily be interpreted as 40% x 1.05 = 42, instead of the actual 40 = 75% hit +5% = 80% hit), can we get something more intelligible?

+1.

[Full_Bleed]

The inconsistency between +atk and +%atk has bothered me all throughout beta, both closed and open.

The fact that there isn't universal terminology to describe the benefit something is giving you is unsettling.

As Eladrin mentions, adding 5% to the end calculation actually makes it more powerful than the description seems to indicate. If you look at Precision and say, "I hit 5% more" you'd be wrong. In truth, using his example, if you're only hitting 10% of the time, the +5% would actually mean you're going to be hitting 50% more often with Precision on.

To put it another way, if the target is for people to hit 50% of the time against at-level creatures, the +5% Precision bonus means that they will be hitting 10% more often.

That makes these end formula modifiers much more powerful than many people will fully realize.

[bbqzor]

The fact that there isn't universal terminology to describe the benefit something is giving you is unsettling.

As Eladrin mentions, adding 5% to the end calculation actually makes it more powerful than the description seems to indicate. If you look at Precision and say, "I hit 5% more" you'd be wrong. In truth, using his example, if you're only hitting 10% of the time, the +5% would actually mean you're going to be hitting 50% more often with Precision on.

To put it another way, if the target is for people to hit 50% of the time against at-level creatures, the +5% Precision bonus means that they will be hitting 10% more often.

That makes these end formula modifiers much more powerful than many people will fully realize.

Exactly. I'd like to see something like Tumbleweed keep its current reading of "Attack Bonus +2: Provides a +2 competence bonus to your attack bonus", for regular attack gear.

And then something like Precision state, "Precision: Increases your accuracy by +5%, after comparing your attack bonus to your target's armor class" for all the things that now affect accuracy, like proficiency bonus.

Crystal clear that way, and obvious what is stacking/interacting with what. Makes it easy for noobs to build guys, makes it easy for vets to pick gear, makes it easy for folks on beta to look at testing to be sure its all playing nice. And avoids having +atk and +%atk read essentially the same to the untrained eye.

[Altaweir]

Precision is +5% chance to hit at the end.

If you had a 75% chance to hit, you would now have an 80% chance to hit. If you had a 10% chance to hit, it would become 15%.

"Chance to hit" means nothing as you have to throw in target AC in the equation. What makes sense is the Attack score.

With precision on, if +40 attack score becomes +41, that's a +1 to attack score.

With precision on, if +40 attack score becomes +42, that's a 5% bonus to attack score. This may translate into nothing against a real target (because you're already hitting it on a 2+ or conversely never hitting it unless you roll a 20) or changing your actual efficiency a lot - for example, against an AC 59 mob, you hit on 19-20 without precision, and on 16-20 with precision on, a whooping doubling (+100%) success rate!

Proper wording is key to happiness.

[Shinjiteru]

Chance to hit is what you get after throwing in the enemy AC... befor throwing in enemy AC you only have an attack value/score, that's right.

But precision doesn't increase your attack score because it's applied after calculating your chance to hit against the current mob.

Don't see eladrin using improper wording there.

[Altaweir]

Chance to hit is what you get after throwing in the enemy AC... befor throwing in enemy AC you only have an attack value/score, that's right.

But precision doesn't increase your attack score because it's applied after calculating your chance to hit against the current mob.

Don't see eladrin using improper wording there.

If I'm a half-baked wiz using a left-handed repeating heavy crossbow with no proficiency against Harry and hitting only a natural 20 (5% of the time), I'll hit on a 19-20 (10% of the time) with Precision on, thus doubling my success rate?

And does it means that a ranged expert hitting on 2+ (95% of the time) will now hit all of the time with Precision on?

[bbqzor]

If I'm a half-baked wiz using a left-handed repeating heavy crossbow with no proficiency against Harry and hitting only a natural 20 (5% of the time), I'll hit on a 19-20 (10% of the time) with Precision on, thus doubling my success rate?

Yes.

does it means that a ranged expert hitting on 2+ (95% of the time) will now hit all of the time with Precision on?

No, they've already stated that regardless of other bonuses/modifiers, 1 continues to always miss, and 20 continues to always hit.

This exchange further shows exactly why more readable clarity is needed... please make an adjustment here turbine. Its just some simple text / tooltip overhauls, and it would make a world of difference. Thanks.

[LiquidShadow]

ive seen a couple of threads about precision including my own... and nobody cared untill now...

i would make it +10% to hit and ignore 10% fortification
or +5% to hit and ignore 25% fortification

then it wouldnt be a waste of feat compared to power attack

3x cooldown is stupid as a penalty. - to AC or saves fits it better imo

[bloodnose13]

Precision is +5% chance to hit at the end.

If you had a 75% chance to hit, you would now have an 80% chance to hit. If you had a 10% chance to hit, it would become 15%.

ok that explains it, but i agree that description is bit confusing, and can be easy misinterpreted as i did.

[chintao]

Can anyone clear this up for me - did precision loose the fort bypass or not? I haven't seen this mentioned in the feat description.