The End of Spellcasting!

[Blackmoors]

Greetings all!

Did the fancy name brought ya here? If so, you have been tricked! Since no one likes to admit they were tricked, may as well continue to read!

Ive ready many a thing about the HAUNTING suggestion/idea. As with any change, people cringe and contest prior to actually experience it and what we have seen so far, generally speaking, is people against it. Not just against it, they are against the fact of any change to casters in general and to kill spells specifically!

Since we are in a forum frequented by gamers, we only deal in extremes were you find the PoV of people that think every caster has 45+ necro DC and that every caster solos every epic; and the PoV of people that think its ok for a level 20 wizard to kill five CR36 devils with one spell and then right after another 3 with another. OFC both this PoV should be "listened" to but only as what they are - points of view.

As someone who has been playing since the game exists and whos "main" character has been a wizard necromancer (yes, even when cap was 10), I think people are WAY WAY overreacting about the Haunting mechanic. Why should my caster kill 6 epic CR30 mobs with one spell that costed him 2% of his SP, move to another room and 3 seconds later kill another 4 with another spell and 2 more with single target spells...? Were have you, in any D&D Adventure seen this ever!? What people are failing to grasp is that the enemies we are facing are very powerful, its epic enemies not just some highway man that decided to steal a farm, its high level devils, or elite drows, all with a much higher level than we, the adventurers - we shouldn't be able to kill them that easily!

Thats why I think the Haunting seems to me a good compromise - the more you kill, the harder it will be to kill again. In the meantime you can use the other 95% of the spells in your spellbook. The first "death" spell we had ingame was PK and it was hard to hit! We had to work to kill that mob with the spell and save it for that one mob that could unbalance the fight. The fights were more tactical that way. I think Haunting will bring that back since you will have to choose carefully, intelligently and most of all tactically which mob you want to kill since it will lower the odds of you killing another.

Who looses with this? No one (or at least all will be evenly)! If the saves of the mobs were increased to thresholds that could pose difficulty for that 0,0001% of casters that have every single DC squeezed on their build, the rest of the casters wouldn't be able to do anything. If it was targeted for the "average" caster, it would still be too easy for many since you could Wail, Circle, Finger, repeat at will, eventually killing everything and making challenge encounters look trivial. Although Im not in the "casters are so uber they can solo anything" bandwagon, one only needs to play the game a little to see how unbalanced AoE death spells can be and how a change was warranted, hence the fact Im not surprised the big update, were many of things were changed and balanced, has a change to AoE death spells.

So, how will it work? Will i be useless as a PM? OFC not, I just have to play intelligently! As it will be now, every kill you do needs to be thinked through. No longer can you mindlessly wonder in a room and wail a bunch of mobs, run a little till the timer runs out and try again - you are now "forced" to think your attacks and spells and select intelligently who and when to use them. How can any player that likes to play casters dont want this challenge? Thats what being a caster is all about!

I love to play my caster. As said, Ive been a Necromancer wizard since the cap was 10 and love my caster as Pale Master at 20. That said, and no matter how much I like Wail or Circle or think my caster was badass destroying mobs that way, the game wasn't intended to be like this. We shouldn't be able to cast 20-30 wails between shrines with no penalty or difficulty. But we want to be able to cast them and we dont want for mobs to be immune to it... Voila, haunting lets you cast it and kill as many as you want/can... just be sure that is the intelligent move since there will be some consequences!

What distinguishes this game from others (IMO ofc) is not the D&D lore, its the fact you take full control of your character and can determine is every move. Its the fact no matter what equipment you have, the best players are the ones that better control their character, that know how and when to use each ability, item and spell. I for one welcome this change and the added challenge!

So far, Im giving the benefit of the doubt to the devs and I think they had a great idea on how to solve this problem! Keep up the good job!

As always, IMO!
Black

[dunklezhan]

Well put. Popping out of rep-retirement to give you a +1 to offset all the negs you're about to get...

[soulaeon]

A trick? Tra la la.

[Quarterling]

+1 from me as well. People need to stop complaining and look at it from your perspective.

If people are really complaining that they can't insta-kill 6+ mobs using 2% of their spell points every short period of time... well what did they expect would eventually happen; that it would stay this way forever?

[Cyndrome]

Greetings all!

Did the fancy name brought ya here? If so, you have been tricked! Since no one likes to admit they were tricked, may as well continue to read!

No, it was the fancy green arrow thing on the side. I thought it was one of Shade's posts and I was sure I'd find something mock worthy.

[Quarterling]

No, it was the fancy green arrow thing on the side. I thought it was one of Shade's posts and I was sure I'd find something mock worthy.

I actually thought of Dispel when I first saw the green arrow. Oh how those PvP threads that Dispel made brought such joy to us all.

[sheepface]

Well said, I don't agree, but well said.

[Vellrad]

I wanted drama, I wanted rants, I recieved wall of text only :/

[pHo3nix]

Greetings all!

Did the fancy name brought ya here? If so, you have been tricked! Since no one likes to admit they were tricked, may as well continue to read!

Ive ready many a thing about the HAUNTING suggestion/idea. As with any change, people cringe and contest prior to actually experience it and what we have seen so far, generally speaking, is people against it. Not just against it, they are against the fact of any change to casters in general and to kill spells specifically!

Since we are in a forum frequented by gamers, we only deal in extremes were you find the PoV of people that think every caster has 45+ necro DC and that every caster solos every epic; and the PoV of people that think its ok for a level 20 wizard to kill five CR36 devils with one spell and then right after another 3 with another. OFC both this PoV should be "listened" to but only as what they are - points of view.

As someone who has been playing since the game exists and whos "main" character has been a wizard necromancer (yes, even when cap was 10), I think people are WAY WAY overreacting about the Haunting mechanic. Why should my caster kill 6 epic CR30 mobs with one spell that costed him 2% of his SP, move to another room and 3 seconds later kill another 4 with another spell and 2 more with single target spells...? Were have you, in any D&D Adventure seen this ever!? What people are failing to grasp is that the enemies we are facing are very powerful, its epic enemies not just some highway man that decided to steal a farm, its high level devils, or elite drows, all with a much higher level than we, the adventurers - we shouldn't be able to kill them that easily!

Thats why I think the Haunting seems to me a good compromise - the more you kill, the harder it will be to kill again. In the meantime you can use the other 95% of the spells in your spellbook. The first "death" spell we had ingame was PK and it was hard to hit! We had to work to kill that mob with the spell and save it for that one mob that could unbalance the fight. The fights were more tactical that way. I think Haunting will bring that back since you will have to choose carefully, intelligently and most of all tactically which mob you want to kill since it will lower the odds of you killing another.

Who looses with this? No one (or at least all will be evenly)! If the saves of the mobs were increased to thresholds that could pose difficulty for that 0,0001% of casters that have every single DC squeezed on their build, the rest of the casters wouldn't be able to do anything. If it was targeted for the "average" caster, it would still be too easy for many since you could Wail, Circle, Finger, repeat at will, eventually killing everything and making challenge encounters look trivial. Although Im not in the "casters are so uber they can solo anything" bandwagon, one only needs to play the game a little to see how unbalanced AoE death spells can be and how a change was warranted, hence the fact Im not surprised the big update, were many of things were changed and balanced, has a change to AoE death spells.

So, how will it work? Will i be useless as a PM? OFC not, I just have to play intelligently! As it will be now, every kill you do needs to be thinked through. No longer can you mindlessly wonder in a room and wail a bunch of mobs, run a little till the timer runs out and try again - you are now "forced" to think your attacks and spells and select intelligently who and when to use them. How can any player that likes to play casters dont want this challenge? Thats what being a caster is all about!

I love to play my caster. As said, Ive been a Necromancer wizard since the cap was 10 and love my caster as Pale Master at 20. That said, and no matter how much I like Wail or Circle or think my caster was badass destroying mobs that way, the game wasn't intended to be like this. We shouldn't be able to cast 20-30 wails between shrines with no penalty or difficulty. But we want to be able to cast them and we dont want for mobs to be immune to it... Voila, haunting lets you cast it and kill as many as you want/can... just be sure that is the intelligent move since there will be some consequences!

What distinguishes this game from others (IMO ofc) is not the D&D lore, its the fact you take full control of your character and can determine is every move. Its the fact no matter what equipment you have, the best players are the ones that better control their character, that know how and when to use each ability, item and spell. I for one welcome this change and the added challenge!

So far, Im giving the benefit of the doubt to the devs and I think they had a great idea on how to solve this problem! Keep up the good job!

As always, IMO!
Black

Haunting is way better than HTK, but it just encourages people to take small breaks while playing: if this is good or bad i do not know, but for sure it doesn't encourage teamplay

[Charononus]

IIRC someone on the dev team mentioned that haunting will affect all levels not just epics, as such my concern is lower level quests such as Let Sleeping dust Lie. Considering that most the time the tatic is to have a caster finger or destruct all the ogre's while melee are meatshields for them I have to wonder how much of a pain it will be to do this at level with haunting.

[Correlan]

Might be slightly irrelevant now DB. As for Being a useless PM, those of us that party with you already knew that. We'd also love to see you kill more than 6 mobs in any quest, instead of getting the group together, then going afk for 20 mins and you magically gather all the scrolls into your backpack.....

[Zyerz]

People tend to exaggerate much about these themes... Sure, you might not like it , but at least its not your credit rating that is being nerfed.

[backandforth]

If I have to think more about what my wizard needs to do and what not ,I prefer to play a barbarian carrying a fancy axe only! Enough with the challenge already!

[Voldomar]

So, how will it work? Will i be useless as a PM? OFC not, I just have to play intelligently! As it will be now, every kill you do needs to be thinked through. No longer can you mindlessly wonder in a room and wail a bunch of mobs, run a little till the timer runs out and try again - you are now "forced" to think your attacks and spells and select intelligently who and when to use them. How can any player that likes to play casters dont want this challenge? Thats what being a caster is all about!

Mindlessly wander? I guess that most people here will be glad if casters mindlessy wander in a room and use just 2 spells: mass hold / otto's sphere. That would not be seen as cheap...but as a brilliant playstyle...

As someone who has been playing since the game exists and whos "main" character has been a wizard necromancer (yes, even when cap was 10), I think people are WAY WAY overreacting about the Haunting mechanic. Why should my caster kill 6 epic CR30 mobs with one spell that costed him 2% of his SP, move to another room and 3 seconds later kill another 4 with another spell and 2 more with single target spells...? Were have you, in any D&D Adventure seen this ever!? What people are failing to grasp is that the enemies we are facing are very powerful, its epic enemies not just some highway man that decided to steal a farm, its high level devils, or elite drows, all with a much higher level than we, the adventurers - we shouldn't be able to kill them that easily!

Thats why I think the Haunting seems to me a good compromise - the more you kill, the harder it will be to kill again. In the meantime you can use the other 95% of the spells in your spellbook. The first "death" spell we had ingame was PK and it was hard to hit! We had to work to kill that mob with the spell and save it for that one mob that could unbalance the fight. The fights were more tactical that way. I think Haunting will bring that back since you will have to choose carefully, intelligently and most of all tactically which mob you want to kill since it will lower the odds of you killing another.

Ok. Now take a look at these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHDr...hannel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LoL...hannel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YrMv...hannel&list=UL

Surprise surprise...he's not a "mighty" PM, nor a "cheap" warforged that uses reconstruct! He doesn't mindlessly use wail and fod... most of the time he just blows up stuff. Actually it's easier form him to just make things go boom rather than wailing and rely on Fod.
But sure, if you think that nerfing instakill is the way, go ahead. It won't bring more balance between casters and melees.

[Chai]

IIRC someone on the dev team mentioned that haunting will affect all levels not just epics, as such my concern is lower level quests such as Let Sleeping dust Lie. Considering that most the time the tatic is to have a caster finger or destruct all the ogre's while melee are meatshields for them I have to wonder how much of a pain it will be to do this at level with haunting.

Spiders are immune to acid, and everything else in there is not. It wont be a pain at all.

All they really needed to do with instakills is make it single target only. The AE deathspells were the ones that were too powerful.

When I see a PM FOD a mob I dont think thats overpowered. When I see them pull 15 mobs to a web with a symbol of death on it and wail all of them down at the cost of 3 spells, thats overpowered. If wail were more like implode where it kills one mob every few seconds we wouldnt have the hyperbolic forumites fuming that melee are useless.

[pHo3nix]

When I see a PM FOD a mob I dont think thats overpowered. When I see them pull 15 mobs to a web with a symbol of death on it and wail all of them down at the cost of 3 spells, thats overpowered. If wail were more like implode where it kills one mob every few seconds we wouldnt have the hyperbolic forumites fuming that melee are useless.

The nerf seems to hit implosion as well, even though it got a 1 min CD and it can kill 5 mobs per cast (if all fail their saves).

[Chai]

Mindlessly wander? I guess that most people here will be glad if casters mindlessy wander in a room and use just 2 spells: mass hold / otto's sphere. That would not be seen as cheap...but as a brilliant playstyle...



Ok. Now take a look at these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHDr...hannel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LoL...hannel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YrMv...hannel&list=UL

Surprise surprise...he's not a "mighty" PM, nor a "cheap" warforged that use reconstruct! He doesn't mindlessly use wail and fod... most of the time he just blow up stuff. Actually it's easyer form him to just make things go boom rather than wailing and rely on Fod.
But sure, if you think that nerfing instakill is the way, go ahead. It won't bring more balance between casters and melees.

Ive been playing the same harp for a while now on this issue. The difference between a wizard who de-levels a bunch of mobs with SOD, webs them all, then wails a bunch of mobs down -vs- a sorc who delevels the same mobs down, mass holds, then drops insane damage on them to kill them all, is pure semantics.

The minute they nerf instakills too hard, most of your DC wizards will TR into sorcs. The fact that Turbine will likely not nerf direct damage too hard is a good insurance policy. Direct damage will always work, and now the PMs will have 1.5 times the amount of SP they did before as a sorc.

[Chai]

The nerf seems to hit implosion as well, even though it got a 1 min CD and it can kill 5 mobs per cast (if all fail their saves).

That sucks, as theres a huge difference. Wail kills the mobs NOW, where implode means the caster has to stand there near a bunch of mobs and let it time out where it kills one at a time.

[Postumus]

Thats why I think the Haunting seems to me a good compromise - the more you kill, the harder it will be to kill again. In the meantime you can use the other 95% of the spells in your spellbook.

More like 60%.

If a 45 DC PM kills 10 mobs with wail, he's at a -20 to necro DCs and won't get back to his full DC for at least 40 seconds. Basically all of his necro spells will be useless for at least 30-36 seconds.

A PM can memorize 5 level 9 spells, 5 level 8 spells, and 5 level 7 spells. At least 2 spells in each level will be necromancy spells.

After casting wail, the usefulness of all necromantic spells are shot, so now the PM only has access to 60% of his memorized spells for the next 40 seconds, not 95%.

[Postumus]

The minute they nerf instakills too hard, most of your DC wizards will TR into sorcs. The fact that Turbine will likely not nerf direct damage too hard is a good insurance policy. Direct damage will always work, and now the PMs will have 1.5 times the amount of SP they did before as a sorc.

I have little doubt Sorcs will be next on the nerfing block since Haunting nails wizards and clerics/fvs at the same time.