Stop rewarding mediocrity

[MRMechMan]

1. AC/to-hit change:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=376703&page=6 (scroll down)

To-hit
Fighter past lives before: 5% more chance to-hit
Fighter past lives after: ~1% more chance to-hit

Grinding out gear/past lives or having a good build is fairly meaningless. 10 to-hit used to be a huge increase/decrease in DPS. Now, it is borderline meaningless.

Particularly for rogues, who now graze on a 2 (and get SA). A character with -5 to-hit (yes, minus 5) hits an epic boss 30% of the time?

A 40 to-hit melee vs 80AC boss USED to hit 5% of the time...now 55%?????
A 65 to hit melee vs 80AC boss USED to hit 30% of the time...now 70%??
A 80 to-hit melee vs 80AC boss USED to hit 95% of the time...now 80%?!?

So getting +15 to-hit used to give you +65% chance to hit (~200% more dps) now gives you +10% more (14% more dps)

If your character is good, they get punished. If your character is bad, they get rewarded

AC
Grinding out gear for 1 more AC before: as much as getting hit 1/2 as much
Grinding out gear for 1 more AC now: getting hit about 1-5% less.

An 80AC player vs 60 to-hit USED to get hit 5% of the time...now 44%.
An 80AC player vs 80 to-hit USED to get hit 95% of the time...now 57%.

Almost the same.

It is good that they are broadening the range of useful AC, but this is just rediculous.

2. Haunting
That extra 1 DC that you ground out completionist for is now meaningless

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=377267&page=41 (scroll down to Mrwindupbird post)

It allows you to instakill 1/2 a mob more during the course of the quest. Assuming you aren't waiting after every encounter, which turbine seems to be encouraging. This doesn't push team play, it pushes waiting around for 2min every wail. The faster (better) your group is, the less that necro DC matters.

If your character is good, they get punished. If your character is bad, they get rewarded

Stop rewarding mediocrity and punishing those who enjoy building strong, well geared characters.

[Zyerz]

I understand your point to some extent, but what they are doing is making the game more mmo like...

I enjoyed the first years when DDO was almost 100% 3.5 Ed. But a lot of people left the game because they couldnt build a character that worked at all. After all, DDO isnt an easy mmorpg for the casual gamer, who has played other mmorpgs where the characters are leveled up automatically and the player has minimal choice as to what skills and feat-like abilities the character class gets.

These xpack changes will indeed make some people leave, but will also allow new and veteran players alike to build more mmo friendly builds. Its not exactly 3.5 and yes, it might be lame for us pen and paper fans; but at least this will help DDO expand faster.

I personally dont mind the changes, I'll still play. I guess games change, and we either gotta get on with the flow, or choose a new current to ride on.

[Stillwaters]

I believe the posts that you were sourcing are

COMBAT CHANGES

and

HAUNTING CHANGES

To link a post click its #number in top rt it opens it as a single post, you can use the url from there.

BTW thanx for highlighting these!

This is a good one too
Buffs/Debuffs on to hit don't matter in endgame

But a lot of people left the game because they couldnt build a character that worked at all. After all, DDO isnt an easy mmorpg for the casual gamer, who has played other mmorpgs where the characters are leveled up automatically and the player has minimal choice as to what skills and feat-like abilities the character class gets.

I personally dont mind the changes, I'll still play. I guess games change, and we either gotta get on with the flow, or choose a new current to ride on.

New gamers in ANY mmo need help, players leaving 'cause they cant figure out how to build a toon.. Thats where Mentor and Guild systems come in.

Idont expect DDO to fail from the proposed changes, but it DOES fail in remaining a D&D d20 game system, and rewarding mediocrity may seem appealing to some, but a LOT of gamers like knowing they worked hard for something better and achieved it.

Its like rewarding a goal.. If the reward isnt great the incentive to try lessens.

How would you like it if everyone in your school (when you went there) got a minimum B grade,
and those that worked REALLY hard at studies only got a B+

[Dolphious]

I do think they may of gone from too steep a curve on to-hit/AC (5% per point was a lot), to too flat. Though it is a tough one.

Part of the problem before was that there were a lot of semi-arbitrary things that would make a big impact on your to-hit. E.g. Rangers and rogues had a much harder time getting "only miss on a 1" to-hit than barbs and fighters, so do you balance rogue/ranger dps based on only missing on a 1 (making those classes very hard for newer/non optimized players), or do you make them balanced based on some lower number (making there "only miss on a 1" DPS much higher than barbs/fighters)?

Making both lines/curves a bit flatter was probably a good idea so that there would be a greater range of numbers that mattered, but they might have gone too far with a 5x change.

I'm bowing out of the whole haunting thing... that topic is getting pretty nasty.

[darksol23]

Down with teh 1%er's!

Long live mediocrity!

What have we learned with "Random Fantasy World Online" (I refuse to call this thing D&D anymore) scheduled to be released will be released 6/25? Mediocore players have wallets too, and there are alot of them... We can't have 1%er's ruining thier fun.

Thngs you hear all the time:

"Do really mediocre at your baseball game son."

"You better get mediocre grades or you'll be a failure"

"Please right a mediocre quality report and have it on my desk in the morning"

"My car is awesome, it gets mediocre gas mileage!"

"Hey you did a really mediocre job this year Bob, you've earned a 20% raise"

One of the dev's has something like "No Challenge, No Fun" stuck in thier sig. There's no challenge to being mediocore, it's the default state.

[Vordax]

Down with teh 1%er's!

Long live mediocrity!

What have we learned with "Random Fantasy World Online" (I refuse to call this thing D&D anymore) scheduled to be released will be released 6/25? Mediocore players have wallets to, and there are alot of them... We can't have 1%er's ruining thier fun.

I guess "Random Fantasy World Online" moving into the "Generic Realms" sort of goes hand in hand then.

[Shade]

So many threads about this..

Yet none seem to have really tested.

I'm 100% positive these changes are not active in the beta.

My barbarian has yet to EVER performing a grazing hit, even agains the highest AC epic elite monsters. I get misses, not grazes.

Heard from some others seeing grazes, but um yea they arent for me. not on epic elite.

Maybe the changes are only for normal/casual (where i wouldnt notice as my char has a +50 to hit, which exceeds everythings AC by a billion or so)

[Qezuzu]

Part of the problem before was that there were a lot of semi-arbitrary things that would make a big impact on your to-hit. E.g. Rangers and rogues had a much harder time getting "only miss on a 1" to-hit than barbs and fighters, so do you balance rogue/ranger dps based on only missing on a 1 (making those classes very hard for newer/non optimized players), or do you make them balanced based on some lower number (making there "only miss on a 1" DPS much higher than barbs/fighters)?

It might only be me but my rogue doesn't miss on anything but a 1, ever, on any enemy (given a sneak attack), because there is so much gear, buffs, and other effects that boost to-hits by a lot.

I still find most of these changes VERY needlessly confusing.

[Zachski]

So you want to punish people who don't powergame then.

Fantastic. Screw everyone else, we should only cater to your playstyle

[Dandonk]

So you want to punish people who don't powergame then.

Fantastic. Screw everyone else, we should only cater to your playstyle

If there is little reason to gear up and grind past lives, or even just build well, you may well get more people up at end game... but I suspect many will leave when they see how pointless it becomes to play there, since the rewards for playing and knowing the game will be next to non-existent.

So yeah, I think these mediocre-ftw-changes are bad. There should be a thing to strive for, something you can look forward to at the end of the day. With these changes there will be little point to getting your to hit up. In some cases +9 to hit may not even get you any more to hit http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=121 .

[Belduroz]

The 9 to-hit = no additional % to hit scenario is kinda constructed, since it's calculated against a 100 AC target, which do not exist. The highest AC i can think of on live is in the mid 60s, with debuffs (sunder, destruction, fvs-aura and so on) it's anywhere 50-55. There the scaling is only half, so 4-5 to-hit = 5% more hits. And even an AC this high is very rare.

Of course with the new levels AC (and to-hit) will increase, broadening the scaling, but i don't think AC will be increased a lot.

[taurean430]

/signed

[Forzah]

I don't mind these changes really. To be effective, the current system requires you to be in a 20 point range with AC and to-hit, yet character builds are often more than 20 AC and to-hit apart. If the changes increase melee survivability and help to equalize damage between builds, I'm all happy. With mainly barbs and monks as endgame dps, the game becomes a little bit boring, doesn't it?

[Khthonic]

The AC nerf is not going to be as bad as the Haunting nerf. Why? Because AC is gear based, and most people don't have the gear to get a truly epic level of AC. Most of them are squishy, even when they try to get AC.

On the other hand any caster who uses wail or circle will instantly be debilitated from using death spells for a great deal of time. Completionist is still worth it, its 20hp, +1 to saves, +1 to *all* spell DC's, more mana, all the inherents like +10 hp, healing amp, and so forth. With all the benefits of completionist you can free up an entire feat or two (compared to your 3 life wizzy). Just saying, though I am abhorrently against Haunted in its proposed form. There needs to be a hard cap. Being debilitated because I casted wail on some rats or something is absurd.

[Stillwaters]

The 9 to-hit = no additional % to hit scenario is kinda constructed, since it's calculated against a 100 AC target, which do not exist. The highest AC i can think of on live is in the mid 60s, with debuffs (sunder, destruction, fvs-aura and so on) it's anywhere 50-55. There the scaling is only half, so 4-5 to-hit = 5% more hits. And even an AC this high is very rare.

Of course with the new levels AC (and to-hit) will increase, broadening the scaling, but i don't think AC will be increased a lot.

constructed? of course it was..

It also applies to +74 to hit mobs vs a 100 AC tank (very common in late heroic levels) debuffing said mob with 4 neg levels and "bane" spell would work out to the mob having 4% less hitchance

It could also apply to "shudder" PVP

And, as you rightly pointed out the 70AC max on a mob now is likely to be grossly inflated by the new content.

If you would prefer me to use a 75AC epic lvl 25 mob/ moderate AC player I can....

+31 to hit vs 75AC = 41.5/150 = 28% +25% = 53% (55% rounding)
+54 to hit vs 75AC = 64.5/150 = 43% +25% = 68% (70% rounding)
+60 to hit vs 75AC = 70.5/150 = 47% +25% = 72% (70% rounding)


+54 to +60 = 6 more to hit = 0% change (4% if you dont believe in rounding)
+34 to +60 = 29 more to hit = 15% change (19% if you dont believe in rounding)

so the difference between a +31 tohit guy with little to no gear/investment and a +60 dedicated geared melee is
The dedicated guy hits on 6+(using d20), the newb hits on 9+, for 29 less tohit

EDIT: on the reverse you need 10 neg levs, a sunder, a curse, and a bane spell as debuffs, and the mob would have
19% less to hit same damage!!!!

[alexp80]

So you want to punish people who don't powergame then.

Fantastic. Screw everyone else, we should only cater to your playstyle

For not powergamers there is casual normal or even hard difficult, where the threat is little.

I play tennis once a week, i don't pretend to be invited to Roland Garros

[pHo3nix]

For not powergamers there is casual normal or even hard difficult, where the threat is little.

I play tennis once a week, i don't pretend to be invited to Roland Garros

Aye, exactly

/totally signed the OP.

A lot of games i used to play were wasted by noobs complaining the best players in there were too powerful. Instead of complaining something is too hard people should become better players and improve their skills.

[v.p.]

/signed for OP

and please do not forget, caster damage output is also seriously went down. with same gear and feats/enhancements casters will produce roughly 30% less damage than now. it will eventually be compensated by 5 epic levels and fates but still...

[alexp80]

/signed for OP

and please do not forget, caster damage output is also seriously went down. with same gear and feats/enhancements casters will produce roughly 30% less damage than now. it will eventually be compensated by 5 epic levels and fates but still...

Don't know... most spell have caster lvl capped so will not be powerful. Magister pre is about DC (no longer useful thanks to the incoming nerf) and dispelling... I mean DISPELLING! I always dream of my epic power of DISPELLING!

Seems to me a real ****.

[Stillwaters]

/signed for OP

and please do not forget, caster damage output is also seriously went down. with same gear and feats/enhancements casters will produce roughly 30% less damage than now. it will eventually be compensated by 5 epic levels and fates but still...

Show me please, last I checked due to metas getting a 50% bump the spell damage/heal were almost unchanged, holding an item after clickies etc...