Monks - the new glass cannons

[AylinIsAwesome]

Has anyone actually playtested Monks yet on Llama, or is this going to remain a pure speculation thread?


My 2cp:

1) Dodge - yes, I feel Monks should get some more dodge in some way, shape, or form. A base +dodge with their AC increments could work, as could a change to Air stance.
It doesn't make sense that Rogues and *Barbarians* are the dodgiest classes, when the guy who doesn't wear any armour at all doesn't get any latent dodge bonuses.

Agreed, some dodge bonuses from Monk levels should be in there. Perhaps 2% at level 1, 4% at level 5, 6% at level 10, 8% at level 15, and 10% at level 20 would be appropriate?

2) Stances - so far Earth stance was revised to add PRR. Devs could easily change the others as well - perhaps, as mentioned above, add +dodge to Air stance; +AC to Water stance; and ...I don't know, something else to Fire to make it actually attractive.

+to-hit % bonus to Fire stance? Would be useful for undergeared Monks, and against high AC mobs.

Maybe something like +3%/+6%/+9%/+12%?

[Ape_Man]

I am still confident that the devs will do something to increase dodge or AC for monks. We shall see.

V

based on what? Other than their past history of favoring the pay-2-win classes?

[Ape_Man]

Yikes.. they work in epic now?

The stat-damage resistance is gone.

[Ape_Man]

Agreed, some dodge bonuses from Monk levels should be in there. Perhaps 2% at level 1, 4% at level 5, 6% at level 10, 8% at level 15, and 10% at level 20 would be appropriate?



+to-hit % bonus to Fire stance? Would be useful for undergeared Monks, and against high AC mobs.

Maybe something like +3%/+6%/+9%/+12%?

To-hit for the under-geared isn't gonna be an issue, they're getting a buff. The people who are hitting everything on a 2 now should be getting a nerf.

[AylinIsAwesome]

To-hit for the under-geared isn't gonna be an issue, they're getting a buff. The people who are hitting everything on a 2 now should be getting a nerf.

In that case, what is your opinion on some stacking healing amp? 5/10/15/20%?

[fatherpirate]

The easy fix

Monks should get a resilence bonus based on level...modified by stance
It should increase at a regular rate as the monk levels

Wind stances should reduce it to the levels of light armor
Fire/water stances should be at medium armor level
and
Earth stance should be at heavy armor level

[Kiel]

Ha spoken like a true poor person.I doubt theyll add anything for monks to improve them simply because i doubt they have enough time.Heck i dont even expect the game to be in good working order come the 25th.

And yes i feel dumb for paying 80 bucks on a expansion when it wasnt even done yet.

[Ape_Man]

In that case, what is your opinion on some stacking healing amp? 5/10/15/20%?

What for? Like monks don't have enough? That's clearly fixing something that isn't broken.

[AylinIsAwesome]

What for? Like monks don't have enough? That's clearly fixing something that isn't broken.

Fire stance right now is the stance for undergeared Monks (because of the to-hit and +1 Ki on-hit). If that is no longer an issue as you claim, it makes sense to give the stance something else undergeared Monks might not have (more Healing amp).

[Masadique]

The easy fix

Monks should get a resilence bonus based on level...modified by stance
It should increase at a regular rate as the monk levels

Wind stances should reduce it to the levels of light armor
Fire/water stances should be at medium armor level
and
Earth stance should be at heavy armor level

Absolutely not. This would make monks far too powerful. I mean far too powerful.

Ape, I just have a bit of faith that they'll try to balance out dodge. I don't have any evidence, just hoping. If they don't, they don't.

V

[Aalric]

I would have more fate if they would communicate

But then again, hope springs eternal....

[fatherpirate]

Absolutely not. This would make monks far too powerful. I mean far too powerful.

Ape, I just have a bit of faith that they'll try to balance out dodge. I don't have any evidence, just hoping. If they don't, they don't.

V

all things equal, I would agree...but with the new changes...they are not equal.

in easier to under stand terms

If you don't change the monk..when the expansion hits a lvl 1ftr/lvl 19 mage in mithral plate
will have twice the damage resistance of a 20th lvl monk

AC is not equal to damage resistance
When a big boss starts wailing on the group with +150 to hit...ac is pretty worthless
damage resistance is priceless

[Ape_Man]

all things equal, I would agree...but with the new changes...they are not equal.

in easier to under stand terms

If you don't change the monk..when the expansion hits a lvl 1ftr/lvl 19 mage in mithral plate
will have twice the damage resistance of a 20th lvl monk

AC is not equal to damage resistance
When a big boss starts wailing on the group with +150 to hit...ac is pretty worthless
damage resistance is priceless

except things aren't going to hit you every shot in MoTU unless you are a barbarian. You will get missed and dodge more than you do now.

Do you have any idea how LITTLE damage mittigation armor does on a non-defender build?

[donblas]

Do you have any idea how LITTLE damage mittigation armor does on a non-defender build?

Pah! For one of my builds armor does ZERO damage mitigation except for the AC itself, and in that case the AC doesn't reduce hits like it once did.

[Erekose]

I seen well built Str Monk with Alchemical handwraps and over 700+ HP do as good if not better in ToD than a Barb or Fighter.

I was very impressed. Can't why they need anymore help. They are getting access to a +10 seeker on their body through Red Dragon armor. I guess you cant be both max dps and a high ac, probably going to have to choose what flavor you want to be.

[Masadique]

I seen well built Str Monk with Alchemical handwraps and over 700+ HP do as good if not better in ToD than a Barb or Fighter.

I was very impressed. Can't why they need anymore help. They are getting access to a +10 seeker on their body through Red Dragon armor. I guess you cant be both max dps and a high ac, probably going to have to choose what flavor you want to be.

Yup, on live, my monk tank is great. Just pumps out the damage. Come expansion, he loses a lot of his survivability. Everyone is getting +10 seeker if they want it. I get the feeling you haven't been following this topic too much.

Alch wraps are kinda meh for bosses to be honest. Primarily elemental damage which means most monsters ignore a good deal of it. Not the point though. AC will be higher on fighters, fine. PRR will be higher on fighters, it should. Why is dodge not higher, in fact lower due to fewer feats, on a monk than it is on a fighter? I'm not asking for my monk to become my fighter.

V

[Erekose]

Yup, on live, my monk tank is great. Just pumps out the damage. Come expansion, he loses a lot of his survivability. Everyone is getting +10 seeker if they want it. I get the feeling you haven't been following this topic too much.

Alch wraps are kinda meh for bosses to be honest. Primarily elemental damage which means most monsters ignore a good deal of it. Not the point though. AC will be higher on fighters, fine. PRR will be higher on fighters, it should. Why is dodge not higher, in fact lower due to fewer feats, on a monk than it is on a fighter? I'm not asking for my monk to become my fighter.

V

I don't see how they loose survivability, they still retain inherent Spell resistance, improved evasion, DR 10 epic, c'mon why do Monk players simply ignore these when it is convenient?

[redspecter23]

I don't see how they loose survivability, they still retain inherent Spell resistance, improved evasion, DR 10 epic, c'mon why do Monk players simply ignore these when it is convenient?

They lose relative survivability compared to what they had before in heroic dungeons. Obviously everyone is gaining as far as epic defenses are concerned, though those gains are varied. I think monks do have a lot going for them and are still quite survivable, when compared to other melee. It is just a shock to go from near unhittable in heroic content to smacked around like a rag doll while other classes like rogue, barb, pally and fighter get boosts to overall defenses compared to what they had on live.

It is clear that melee are meant to be hit much more than 5% from a dev perspective. Whether that is the right line of thinking or not is where my concern lies

[donblas]

It is clear that melee are meant to be hit much more than 5% from a dev perspective. Whether that is the right line of thinking or not is where my concern lies

Historically and in fantasy, 95% (or very high) mitigation is perfectly reasonable.

In fantasy, eg LotR, elf heroes can wade through thousands of orcs with nary a scratch; and Asiatic monks can slay whole armies while getting only a small scratch on their cheek. I'm pretty sure no demon prince should worry about a kobold hurting it.

Likewise in real life and history. A high medieval knight in full plate should not really fear being hurt by a rat (even a quite big one). Medieval plate armor was also pretty well invulnerable to longbow arrows fired from even very close range by experienced archers - that's why they spent so much on it.

In a lot of circumstances very high damage mitigation is not only realistic - it's also flavorful.

[whomhead]

Historically and in fantasy, 95% (or very high) mitigation is perfectly reasonable.

Agreed. They don't call them "tanks" for nothing!