Clerics post Expansion

[Ranncore]

Pretty much the only legitimate concern that OP alluded to was turning, which has been a complaint of every cleric's for some time now. Turning just sucks balls. The best thing they did for turning was get rid of it by giving the Radiant Servant auras/bursts instead.

Do something to turning so that a classic DnD cleric ability is useful in this game.

Not that Turbine gives a **** about Dungeons and Dragons, as we can clearly see by all the changes in the update.

[Sarnind]

Sry but cleric is the best healer And if u not like heal i think u need to try a play a different class(fvs?)

[FranOhmsford]

Yeah, pretty sure he meant Combat Training which was removed in Beta 4 just before open Beta.

Rangers and Ftrs got the full bonus, rogues, paladins and barb half bonus, or something to that effect if I remember well.

Yes I was referring to Combat Training - Thank you for actually reporting when it was removed.

I uninstalled Lamannia on Beta III as my laptop was having problems so missed this change.

There was a massive thread on Combat Training btw - It shouldn't be hard to find - To the Person who accused me of Fear Mongering!

Surprised they removed it in it's entirety as it was a good change - I just don't see why they decided it shouldn't go to Clerics {who get Hvy Armour}.

The fact that the Devs decided it shouldn't go to Clerics and then got rid of it in it's entirety rather than fixing it tells me that they really do have it in for Clerics at the moment - I'd love to know why Devs?



As for Haunted - It's still a terrible change - It should not affect Implosion at all {And btw 5x15secs is 1 min 15 NOT 1 min - That's a nerf to an already weak spell {for it's level} + We still don't know whether the ticks on Implosion will apply the nerf to subsequent ticks}.
15 seconds in DDO is a lifetime - This is a huge nerf to Destruction - I'll let you have Slay Living as it's a rarely used spell anyway.


Now for CE - AC and PR are going to matter in the future - Clerics {If they're using their only pre} are going to take far more damage than before.
Mace and Shield Clerics are a staple of D&D - DDO's focus has forced 2 handed fighting on us BUT with these changes I was hoping we could get back to actually being able to use a shield - However we're not going to get anything close to enough AC and PR as things stand.

We also have the changes to Maximise and Empower - If CE was fixed to only cause Spellcasting issues for Arcanes then I could see CE getting taken by Divines.

It's the combination of nerfs that is getting to me here - I'm not a one trick pony - I actually try to build my characters for all eventualities {a throwback to PnP I know} so don't have maxed DCs or uber dmg or 1000pt Heals {except Sov Host of course}.
Now I'm getting nerfed in every way - Melee/Instakills/DPS/Heals - All of them are taking a hit.

[FranOhmsford]

Sry but cleric is the best healer And if u not like heal i think u need to try a play a different class(fvs?)

An FS who doesn't heal is a waste of time.

I like Healing - I do it a lot {as I have a number of Clerics} - I do not want to be forced into standing at the back of the party and doing nothing but healing.

[Ranncore]

Sry but cleric is the best healer And if u not like heal i think u need to try a play a different class(fvs?)

I have no idea why you even felt compelled to to make that statement, as I never mentioned a particular like or dislike for healing. I addressed turning.

Sry but me no understands y u ask me dat i do likes healzor me good at its. but me's wants to kill da undeadz too even in dah high lvl places. and dah game gibs cool items and abiliteez too udder classes foh der abilities why no make turn deadz cool too?

[DeafeningWhisper]

I have no idea why you even felt compelled to to make that statement, as I never mentioned a particular like or dislike for healing. I addressed turning.

Sry but me no understands y u ask me dat i do likes healzor me good at its. but me's wants to kill da undeadz too even in dah high lvl places. and dah game gibs cool items and abiliteez too udder classes foh der abilities why no make turn deadz cool too?

LOL, I never quite understood why whenever someone mentions wanting to do anything but heal on a cleric, they automatically assume they don't heal at all.

Makes as much sense as a wizard asking for better slas and been answered: "Wizards have the best CC, why don't you want to CC? Roll a sorc if you want to do any type of damage"

[PNellesen]

Ok, so I took some time to actually do an LR on my Level 20 Cleric (with only the very first ED selection, basically the one you get for simply starting the Exalted Angel ED), dropped Empower, grabbed SF:Evo, redid his Enhancements to really boost his smiting, and then looked around in the weapons vendor and the AH for the best impulse and radiance items I could find. After gearing up, I took a trip out to the Forest. (He has some decent gear, particularly the Torc and the Bauble, but his only epic gear is all the Cove stuff; nothing you'd really be surprised to see on any other first-life level 20 Cleric on live)

It was a cakewalk. Blade barriers, while slightly less damage than on live, did just fine. Destruction hit the majority of low-fort mobs you'd expect them to, Implosion wasn't any noticeably less effective, and Divine Punishment was pretty punishing. Come up on 4 Dire Bears? Pffft, just kite 'em through one or 2 blade barriers. Dragon? Keep stacked DP on her while hiding behind a tree. The only melee he did was with an unsupressed Rahl's might...

I think I'll refrain from any further sarcasm or doom and gloom regarding my Clerics being relegated to being only Healbots in the new system (with the caveat that they don't spring any more surprises on us between now and when this all goes live.)

I know the Forest probably isn't the best indicator of the difficulty of the new content, but he's also soloed 2 or 3 of the new quests (at level 20) and has had no problems with those either.

[justagame]

We may have to wait for the update after the expansion for some of those changes. The reason that clerics look like they are designed as healers is because their only current PrE is the primary healer one.
I'd guess that they need to leave a gap in melee performance into which they can fit the Warpriest for example.

Fortunately it looks like Hard to kill is being replaced with the Haunting mechanic which will impact clerics much less.

A question though: where is this claim that clerics aren't getting the AC for the armour they wear coming from? You've mentioned it a few times, but I couldn't find any basis for it in the current release forums.

Are you kidding? Haunting is much much worse for clerics than HTK would have been.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Are you kidding? Haunting is much much worse for clerics than HTK would have been.

A lot of people seem to miss the fact that Haunted affects heroic levels as well as epics ones at all difficulties, he's not alone.

[FranOhmsford]

Ok, so I took some time to actually do an LR on my Level 20 Cleric (with only the very first ED selection, basically the one you get for simply starting the Exalted Angel ED), dropped Empower, grabbed SF:Evo, redid his Enhancements to really boost his smiting, and then looked around in the weapons vendor and the AH for the best impulse and radiance items I could find. After gearing up, I took a trip out to the Forest. (He has some decent gear, particularly the Torc and the Bauble, but his only epic gear is all the Cove stuff; nothing you'd really be surprised to see on any other first-life level 20 Cleric on live)

It was a cakewalk. Blade barriers, while slightly less damage than on live, did just fine. Destruction hit the majority of low-fort mobs you'd expect them to, Implosion wasn't any noticeably less effective, and Divine Punishment was pretty punishing. Come up on 4 Dire Bears? Pffft, just kite 'em through one or 2 blade barriers. Dragon? Keep stacked DP on her while hiding behind a tree. The only melee he did was with an unsupressed Rahl's might...

I think I'll refrain from any further sarcasm or doom and gloom regarding my Clerics being relegated to being only Healbots in the new system (with the caveat that they don't spring any more surprises on us between now and when this all goes live.)

I know the Forest probably isn't the best indicator of the difficulty of the new content, but he's also soloed 2 or 3 of the new quests (at level 20) and has had no problems with those either.

You have a TORC and a BAUBLE?!?

Sorry but that is not minimum gear.

Not even close.

BTW Has Haunting been added as yet? If not then you're testing Destruction and Implosion too early.

[PNellesen]

You have a TORC and a BAUBLE?!?

Sorry but that is not minimum gear.

Not even close.

BTW Has Haunting been added as yet? If not then you're testing Destruction and Implosion too early.

Well - Torc and Bauble ARE useful, but they don't make you more "powerful", they just give you more SP.

Good point on Haunting though - I'll try tomorrow after the restart to see if there's any difference.

[darksol23]

>.>

<.<

What clerics?

[butcheredspirit]

The fact that the Devs decided it shouldn't go to Clerics and then got rid of it in it's entirety rather than fixing it tells me that they really do have it in for Clerics at the moment - I'd love to know why Devs?

I noticed this too...although I think we could generalise further than just at the moment!

15 seconds in DDO is a lifetime - This is a huge nerf to Destruction - I'll let you have Slay Living as it's a rarely used spell anyway.

Are you sure? I use slay living all the time.

dropped Empower, grabbed SF:Evo,

I've been considering doing this, however I use the burst as my primary source of healing.
Did you see much difference in the numbers there?

[PNellesen]

I've been considering doing this, however I use the burst as my primary source of healing.
Did you see much difference in the numbers there?

Yeah, Burst is definitely lower on Lamma than Live, but I'm not entirely sure Empower would make up the difference. For me personally, I think the nerfing of Superior Ardor clickies is having a bigger effect on Burst numbers than dropping Empower - I'll check the actual numbers on live when I get a chance (I was one of "those" clerics that the devs apparently didn't approve of - I kept Superior Ardor VI going pretty much full-time from the minute I got in a quest until it was over...)

Funny thing though - my Aura is actually hitting for as much as (if not more than) it is on live, and un-meta'd Heal/Mass Heal, using only Staff of Fleshshaping, are hitting for more than enough to get almost anyone back to full health from near zero (400-600 HP a shot). [As far as Heal Scrolls + Epic Dagger are concerned, let's just say that Fight Club rules apply... ]

It does look like healing is one thing Clerics won't have to worry about after the update...

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yeah, Burst is definitely lower on Lamma than Live, but I'm not entirely sure Empower would make up the difference. For me personally, I think the nerfing of Superior Ardor clickies is having a bigger effect on Burst numbers than dropping Empower - I'll check the actual numbers on live when I get a chance (I was one of "those" clerics that the devs apparently didn't approve of - I kept Superior Ardor VI going pretty much full-time from the minute I got in a quest until it was over...)

Funny thing though - my Aura is actually hitting for as much as (if not more than) it is on live, and un-meta'd Heal/Mass Heal, using only Staff of Fleshshaping, are hitting for more than enough to get almost anyone back to full health from near zero (400-600 HP a shot). [As far as Heal Scrolls + Epic Dagger are concerned, let's just say that Fight Club rules apply... ]

It does look like healing is one thing Clerics won't have to worry about after the update...

Sorry but concerning the fight club part, a tread existed in Beta and a dev came out and said it wasn't WAI and getting fixed.

Also with Emp/Max burst is a pale copy of it's life version, aura ticks for more thou and Heal Mass hits for more then Heal, with Heal hitting for more then on life.

[dredre9987]

A lot of people seem to miss the fact that Haunted affects heroic levels as well as epics ones at all difficulties, he's not alone.

Haunting as with HTK is for epic hard/elites....They said they may be putting in a boost to saves vs. death spells...

QUOTE=Eladrin;4509707]SNIP


We may consider a small buff on Hard/Elite/Epic Hard/Epic Elite difficulties to Saves vs. Death Magic for players and monsters at full or very high health, as well as a penalty at very low health, but at much smaller numbers than we were considering previously, when that was considered as a standalone system prior to the implementation of Hard to Kill.

SNIP
[/I][/QUOTE]



EDIT: I see this post now so might get to heroics NO confirmation as of yet though

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=111

[DeafeningWhisper]

Haunting as with HTK is for epic hard/elites....They said they may be putting in a boost to saves vs. death spells...

QUOTE=Eladrin;4509707]SNIP


We may consider a small buff on Hard/Elite/Epic Hard/Epic Elite difficulties to Saves vs. Death Magic for players and monsters at full or very high health, as well as a penalty at very low health, but at much smaller numbers than we were considering previously, when that was considered as a standalone system prior to the implementation of Hard to Kill.

SNIP
[/I]

[/QUOTE]

From Eladrin,s post on page 6 of the "Hard to Kill --> Haunting" thread:

"Is thise planned only for epic hard and epic elite?
Currently we're thinking of having it in both Heroic and Epic content for consistency."

[dredre9987]

Yeah just saw that and updated accordingly

[HatsuharuZ]

Clerics are still missing domains.... domains are awesome, especially the ones that let the cleric turn outsiders and elementals~

[PNellesen]

Sorry but concerning the fight club part, a tread existed in Beta and a dev came out and said it wasn't WAI and getting fixed.

Boo.

I REALLY wish they would reconsider this, at least for Heal scrolls. Just ran one of the new quests with one of my Rangers who can use scrolls. Bought a potency weapon from the vendor. With it, he could get down well below half HP and still be able to top himself off with just one scroll (was getting around 260HP+ out of them). Without the potency item, was getting around 110 or so, maybe a tad more.

Does EVERYTHING in this update have to be a NERF??