Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[Schwarzie]

These kinds of threads really concern me, before this raid hit open beta, (I would assume) it had already gone through:

Internal Testing
Mournlands Feedback
Closed Beta (for the brief time it was available there)

I somewhat doubt that it went through the first two stages you mentioned here. The whole expansion seems to be build under a lot of time pressure. And im pretty **** sure that some of the Devs share the playerbases view about DT-style loot and Coylesmum Raids...

[Yalina]

The reason why Shroud is the most popular raid is simple - you can take the first 11 people and ride with them. Easily pugable raid, and with harder difficulties its getting more challengable (still not a big test on elite specially for powergamers, but more loooot). The devs made the first serious fault with the new raid when they shaped it for the 1 % of the playerbase, second mistake was when they were thinking about "challenge" instead of "fun" and "enjoyment".

[ainmosni]

The reason why Shroud is the most popular raid is simple - you can take the first 11 people and ride with them. Easily pugable raid, and with harder difficulties its getting more challengable (still not a big test on elite specially for powergamers, but more loooot). The devs made the first serious fault with the new raid when they shaped it for the 1 % of the playerbase, second mistake was when they were thinking about "challenge" instead of "fun" and "enjoyment".

shroud is the most popular raid because it gives the most profit per time spent in the raid.

shroud is the BEST raid because it gives a variety of objectives, each with their own unique flavor, and each of the 5 phases is both unique and fun. (well, first part isnt very fun, but i bet it was for the first few months after release. an increase in the spawn rates of the portal keepers would make part one more interesting.)

[Shade]

The reason why Shroud is the most popular raid is simple - you can take the first 11 people and ride with them. Easily pugable raid, and with harder difficulties its getting more challengable (still not a big test on elite specially for powergamers, but more loooot). The devs made the first serious fault with the new raid when they shaped it for the 1 % of the playerbase, second mistake was when they were thinking about "challenge" instead of "fun" and "enjoyment".

...

Shroud was NOT like this when it first came out.

If you took the first 11 like that anytime in the first month or so, you would fail terribly, probably on part1.

What made Shroud easy was the vast amount of experience players got in it, so that chances are great now a days that at least a few of those "first 11" have some experience and know the strategies needed to win.

The new raid will be no different in that regard.

Will it be as popularly ran? Remains to be seen. That often depends on the loot for all too many players.

[voodoogroves]

shroud is the most popular raid because it gives the most profit per time spent in the raid.

It has a random component (do I get a shard or not? what materials drop?) but it is guaranteed to be at least SOME progress. That's huge. No shroud run is a waste.

shroud is the BEST raid because it gives a variety of objectives, each with their own unique flavor, and each of the 5 phases is both unique and fun. (well, first part isnt very fun, but i bet it was for the first few months after release. an increase in the spawn rates of the portal keepers would make part one more interesting.)

Part one does require a small degree of coordination, but the other parts much more so. It really is a team event where a good team can get it done faster. In each phase, you can be doing something active and meaningful.

[Auran82]

It has a random component (do I get a shard or not? what materials drop?) but it is guaranteed to be at least SOME progress. That's huge. No shroud run is a waste.

Random aside, I recently TRd my favored soul for the first time, I was checking his raids before I did and he had done one shroud.

In his backpack he had 2 small, 2 medium and 3 supreme shards, as well as a set of tier 2 sp goggles. I don't remember when I run him through shroud, but it must have been a good run with guildies.

[ainmosni]

It has a random component (do I get a shard or not? what materials drop?) but it is guaranteed to be at least SOME progress. That's huge. No shroud run is a waste.



Part one does require a small degree of coordination, but the other parts much more so. It really is a team event where a good team can get it done faster. In each phase, you can be doing something active and meaningful.

this is what happens when smarter people than me agree with me.

[sirgog]

The reason why Shroud is the most popular raid is simple - you can take the first 11 people and ride with them. Easily pugable raid, and with harder difficulties its getting more challengable (still not a big test on elite specially for powergamers, but more loooot). The devs made the first serious fault with the new raid when they shaped it for the 1 % of the playerbase, second mistake was when they were thinking about "challenge" instead of "fun" and "enjoyment".

Reaver's Fate is the easiest raid and few people really like it much at all. But it's beatable and quite easy on elite at level with the first 8 or so to hit the LFM, even during weekends (when the playerbase is weaker as the vet/casual player ratio tilts more to casuals).

Shroud was popular for totally different reasons. And it certainly was no less popular back when PUGs found parts 4 and 5 too difficult to attempt without preparation and pooling of plat for Heal scrolls. (Yes, before you say otherwise, we used to use more resources in Normal Shroud than Khyber PUGs use in Normal LOB today; 250 Heal scrolls was standard per divine and you'd have three or even four divines most runs. I know this because at the time I was guildless and PUGged enough to build multiple dualshards).

What's the easiest part of Shroud? Part 1. What's the part people grumble the most about? Part 1.

It has a random component (do I get a shard or not? what materials drop?) but it is guaranteed to be at least SOME progress. That's huge. No shroud run is a waste.

A Shroud run where you get no Large Scales, Stones or Shrapnel is a waste from a strict loot perspective. It is however one closer to a cleanser.

A surprising number of players are motivated only by loot. I don't really understand this but it is true.

[Svartelric]

To be clear, we're looking for feedback on the forum, not validation.

If I wanted to be popular, I'd pick a career in politics. I'm a content designer, hate is part of the job description.

There is a lot of useful feedback, but the fact that most of you ran the raid short-manned means that feedback related to the actual difficulty of the raid is invalid. With that being said, we're still polishing Ana's behavior to make her more productive, useful, and less stuck.

And still most of the dev team tends to see only what they want: people are also commenting on the entertainment value of the raid, which is low compared to most other raids in the game (at least in my opinion and someone else's too).

As far as difficulty and bugs are concerned, tweaking and fixing them is what you are getting paid for - and with our money, no less.

The rest (uninterestin/boring design or gameplay) is just lack of skill and creativity.