Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[Malshier]

Ahem, did you forget about h/e HoX and VoD?

I don't think raid loot drops in the side chests, only those special items that aren't considered raid loot.

[Gimpinator]

Quick question to anyone who has completed the raid...

Has anyone pulled any raid loot?

I believe there's been 3 or 4 completions? It's very likely the raid loot hasn't even been added yet. Most of the people posting in this thread probably haven't been inside the raid. I'm actually very concerned this raid will be too easy with a group of twelve. That doesn't necessarily mean the raid won't be menacing or frustrating.

For a much higher chance at raid loot (which can come from any of the chests), you'll need to earn more chests.

How vague are we talking? When you say "raid loot", do you mean hand-crafted named items or random generated loot that drops from a chest within a raid?

[Feather_of_Sun]

How vague are we talking? When you say "raid loot", do you mean hand-crafted named items or random generated loot that drops from a chest within a raid?

Hand-crafted named items that appear only in this raid. I apologize if that was not clear, that is the usual meaning of "raid loot", and is certainly what I refer to when I use those words. They can appear in all of the chests. Thus, more chests = more chances at raid loot.

[danotmano1998]

Hand-crafted named items that appear only in this raid. I apologize if that was not clear, that is the usual meaning of "raid loot", and is certainly what I refer to when I use those words. They can appear in all of the chests. Thus, more chests = more chances at raid loot.

Since we're discussing raids and loot... Have you guys given any kind of thought to full 20th completion lists? I know this has been begged for in many a thread, but I've yet to see a yes, no, or forget about it!

[Aeolwind]

Yes, a group that does exceptionally well and earns enough extra chests will (on average, RNG is still RNG after all) see more raid items than you would expect on average from older raids such as Hound, VoD, Abbot, etc.

Good in theory, bad in practice. Why waste a completion on 1 chest? Many people will know when they aren't going to get all the chests, die, release and reform. Nice group dynamic in the works.

[Cyr]

Good in theory, bad in practice. Why waste a completion on 1 chest? Many people will know when they aren't going to get all the chests, die, release and reform. Nice group dynamic in the works.

Yeah, it's not good in theory either. Theory is pretty solid on this, you don't put in mechanics which incentivice reforms as they tend to lead to angry players. Quest takes twice as long, people are more happy then quest takes two times.

[Aeolwind]

Yeah, it's not good in theory either. Theory is pretty solid on this, you don't put in mechanics which incentivice reforms as they tend to lead to angry players. Quest takes twice as long, people are more happy then quest takes two times.

Good point as well. I'm pretty sure that the dynamics of this have been dissected down pretty thoroughly at this point. People will still run it in closed groups and pugs will get 1-2 chests and their 20th reward after 40+ attempts.

[Nick_RC]

Hand-crafted named items that appear only in this raid. I apologize if that was not clear, that is the usual meaning of "raid loot", and is certainly what I refer to when I use those words. They can appear in all of the chests. Thus, more chests = more chances at raid loot.

Is the raid loot just not turned on yet? There have been numerous completions but no one has pulled any.

For the record I think the raid has alot of potential. Just needs alot more work. I understand release dates and all that jazz but I think there are some parts that could definately be added too. The optional system needs to be looked at. Because if no one bothers doing the optionals (and at this point I'm just not sure if its worth it) and getting her there full health or close too is a no go(which was nigh impossible in the last implementation - we will see about the next) we end up getting half the raid loot we would normally get. I imagine of the three(?) chests each has a 50% drop rate of similar raid chests.

I am actually looking forward to going back in when llama is back up. Its a nice change of pace to be honest even if it gets very VERY frustrating at times. Hopefully working out the kinks will make it less so.

@ Flimsy - I think the bug with the traps is this: we were doing an optional orb and anna got messed up and was ported to home. She then fell off somewhere so we thought whats the point the optional is done lets move to the next(That same optional we gave up on was the one we were beating on for 30 min). From that point the wards filled the instance. Hope this helps to replicate.

N

[PopeJual]

It's also based on the difficulty you're running the quest on. I'm afraid that giving out exact numbers on loot drop rates is not something we will do, but seeing multiple groups "skunked" when they're only earning one chest in the raid, on normal, is not at all surprising.

That one chest by itself has only a small chance to drop raid rewards. For a much higher chance at raid loot (which can come from any of the chests), you'll need to earn more chests.

Unlike other raids, it's even possible for one player, in one run, to get more than one raid item.

I hope people don't mind me recalling and dropping group in the middle of this raid when it becomes apparent that we're going to be getting a single chest completion instead of a multi-chest-successful-optionals completion. Because it's going to happen.

And when 3 other people recall and drop party because they see the same thing happening, then there won't be a completion for anyone.

Hopefully, that's working as intended since that's how it's going to end up working.

[andreascott89]

How about a warded treasure room at the end that Ana has to expend 99% of her health in order to open?

That way at least people would get the idea that high Ana health == loot.

Having the optionals provide an item (potion of Ana healing?) that could heal Ana a little might be a better mechanic. You could then have teams go gather enough Ana healing items to get Ana to full health to attempt the treasure room opening.

-J

[Krelar]

How about a warded treasure room at the end that Ana has to expend 99% of her health in order to open?

That way at least people would get the idea that high Ana health == loot.

That could be interesting, have one door for each chest, each time she opens a door she looses part of her health. If she doesn't have enough to open all doors she'll say something like "I'm sorry I'm too weak from the battle to open anymore"

[danotmano1998]

I hope people don't mind me recalling and dropping group in the middle of this raid when it becomes apparent that we're going to be getting a single chest completion instead of a multi-chest-successful-optionals completion. Because it's going to happen.

And when 3 other people recall and drop party because they see the same thing happening, then there won't be a completion for anyone.

Hopefully, that's working as intended since that's how it's going to end up working.

This sort of thing COULD be completely eliminated by dropping special raid tokens on completion, then these tokens could be used to turn in for the raid loot you're going for. At least then people will still have a completion and a token or two, knowing they made SOME progress towards the goodies.

I have to agree though. If my loot chances drop by half or 3/4, (And they're usually some ridiculously infinitesmal amount anyhow) I would be tempted to not complete. With tokens you are never skunked.

[FlimsyFirewood]

@ Flimsy - I think the bug with the traps is this: we were doing an optional orb and anna got messed up and was ported to home. She then fell off somewhere so we thought whats the point the optional is done lets move to the next(That same optional we gave up on was the one we were beating on for 30 min). From that point the wards filled the instance. Hope this helps to replicate.

N

Thank you, repro isn't a problem. You left Lolth alone and alive. She feels ignored, rejected and gives you traps wherever you go. I'm in the process of making her do that less often.

[sweez]

I don't think raid loot drops in the side chests, only those special items that aren't considered raid loot.

They drop only in said raids, and are BtC on acquire. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[FlimsyFirewood]

Having the optionals provide an item (potion of Ana healing?) that could heal Ana a little might be a better mechanic. You could then have teams go gather enough Ana healing items to get Ana to full health...

This is how it works. Right now. We're so deep in theorycrafting we've come full circle to how it actually works. Orbs heal her. Getting the orbs is the optional.

[Nick_RC]

Thank you, repro isn't a problem. You left Lolth alone and alive. She feels ignored, rejected and gives you traps wherever you go. I'm in the process of making her do that less often.

Is it possible to kill her legs when ana isnt present? I think it should be because her getting plucked or falling can really make this part an issue.

[Malshier]

They drop only in said raids, and are BtC on acquire. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

But they don't show up on 20ths lists do they? I genuinely don't know.

[sweez]

But they don't show up on 20ths lists do they? I genuinely don't know.

Well, to quote Feather:

Hand-crafted named items that appear only in this raid. I apologize if that was not clear, that is the usual meaning of "raid loot", and is certainly what I refer to when I use those words.

So whether they show on 20 lists or not (they' don't AFAIK), is irrelevant.

[Ganak]

I spent 4 hours in Madstone Crater the night it opened.

Similar experience here, fun challenge

[DeadRabbat]

This & we can and will triumph. But I had previously said this back... some 4 or 5 pages of whining.

For the record I think the raid has alot of potential. Just needs alot more work.

I am actually looking forward to going back in when llama is back up. Its a nice change of pace to be honest even if it gets very VERY frustrating at times. Hopefully working out the kinks will make it less so.

N

I Think it could be fun and to all the nigh Sayers out there who haven't even gone into the raid... No Loot for You!